# Brand on British soldier's forehead? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 27, 2018, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brand-on-british-soldiers-forehead/826762 "2018-12-27T01:19:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![TSBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@TSBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TSBG)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2018, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brand-on-british-soldiers-forehead/826762/1 "2018-12-27T01:19:04Z")
This question is prompted by a novel, but I believe it has a factual answer. In the second volume of the “Octavian Nothing” series, Octavian encounters a British soldier who has “GR” branded on his forehead. What would that have signified? (This is in 1775 during the War of American Independence.) ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2018, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brand-on-british-soldiers-forehead/826762/2 "2018-12-27T01:23:12Z")
George Rex? GR is the Royal cypher for King George like ER is for Elizabeth (Elizabeth Regina) ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2018, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brand-on-british-soldiers-forehead/826762/3 "2018-12-27T01:25:48Z")
It could mean the British soldier is a fanatical supporter KIng George III (“Georgius Rex”), just like that doofus who had the Romney campaign symbol tattooed on his face. ---
**Author:** ![TSBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@TSBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TSBG)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2018, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brand-on-british-soldiers-forehead/826762/4 "2018-12-27T01:26:16Z")
I thought of that, but why branded on the forehead? The soldier is identified as a Scotsman, if that’s a help. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2018, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brand-on-british-soldiers-forehead/826762/5 "2018-12-27T01:35:34Z")
The Royal cypher is a pretty common decoration of various uniforms of the time. You see it on hats, buttons, ammo pouches… I would say it’s the equivalent to a modern soldier getting a tattoo of infantry crossed rifles or a Marine getting an Eagle, Globe and Anchor tattoo. He is suffering from an excessive amount of hooah. That’s the best I can think of without actually reading the source material. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2018, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brand-on-british-soldiers-forehead/826762/6 "2018-12-27T01:49:59Z")
the modern equivalent would be putting pictures of someone all over your van and then mailing pipe bombs ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2018, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brand-on-british-soldiers-forehead/826762/7 "2018-12-27T02:21:07Z")
Apparently initial brands were a thing: This hand-shaped example was made by the British Army during the English Civil War (1641-1651). The branding tool bears the initials ‘CR’ surrounding a crown. This is presumed to refer to ‘Carolus Rex’ - King Charles I. He was beheaded in 1649 for treason, after which England briefly became a republic after a decade of civil war. This tool would have been used to mark ‘ownership’ of Royalist army deserters > **[Sir Henry Wellcome's Museum Collection | Science Museum Group Collection](https://collection.sciencemuseumgroup.org.uk/search/collection/sir-henry-wellcome's-museum-collection)** ---
**Author:** ![TSBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@TSBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TSBG)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2018, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brand-on-british-soldiers-forehead/826762/8 "2018-12-27T02:21:21Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > The Royal cypher is a pretty common decoration of various uniforms of the time. You see it on hats, buttons, ammo pouches… I would say it’s the equivalent to a modern soldier getting a tattoo of infantry crossed rifles or a Marine getting an Eagle, Globe and Anchor tattoo. He is suffering from an excessive amount of hooah. > > That’s the best I can think of without actually reading the source material. There’s not a lot of context (at least not yet) which is why I asked, but the brand is mentioned twice, which makes it seem significant. Without giving away too much if anyone ever reads these books (they’re great), the narrator is very naive about the ways of the world, and it doesn’t occur to him to question or even wonder about certain things. I was trying to get ahead of the story and appreciate the dramatic irony if there’s any to be had. Would appreciate other ideas if any, and I will certainly supply the answer if it comes up in the text. ---
**Author:** ![TSBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@TSBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TSBG)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2018, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brand-on-british-soldiers-forehead/826762/9 "2018-12-27T02:23:01Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > Apparently initial brands were a thing: > > This hand-shaped example was made by the British Army during the English Civil War (1641-1651). The branding tool bears the initials ‘CR’ surrounding a crown. This is presumed to refer to ‘Carolus Rex’ - King Charles I. He was beheaded in 1649 for treason, after which England briefly became a republic after a decade of civil war. This tool would have been used to mark ‘ownership’ of Royalist army deserters > [http://broughttolife.sciencemuseum.org.uk/broughttolife/objects/display?id=92949](http://broughttolife.sciencemuseum.org.uk/broughttolife/objects/display?id=92949) Ah ha. So perhaps the branded soldier in my novel had been a deserter. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2018, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brand-on-british-soldiers-forehead/826762/10 "2018-12-27T02:41:11Z")
> [@TSBG](#): > > Ah ha. So perhaps the branded soldier in my novel had been a deserter. Yeah the branding of deserters was definitely a well known occurrence (It went on Western armies until at least American civil war,) I am sure that is what is being implied (I just didn’t realize the reginal initials were used) ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2018, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brand-on-british-soldiers-forehead/826762/11 "2018-12-27T03:24:33Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > the modern equivalent would be putting pictures of someone all over your van and then mailing pipe bombs **Moderator Note** Let’s keep the political jabs out of General Questions. No warning issued. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2018, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brand-on-british-soldiers-forehead/826762/12 "2018-12-27T14:53:17Z")
I’ve seen brands that were used on criminals but the branding was done at the base of the thumb. I’ve also seen tattooing devices that made a big “D” on a deserters arm. If you got caught deserting, you got tattooed. If you got caught deserting and you already had the tattoo, you were executed. I don’t know why they would put the brand on the guys head unless there was particular ill will on the part of the brander. This was all in Great Britain. Don’t know what others did. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2018, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brand-on-british-soldiers-forehead/826762/13 "2018-12-27T15:00:45Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > The Royal cypher is a pretty common decoration of various uniforms of the time. You see it on hats, buttons, ammo pouches… I would say it’s the equivalent to a modern soldier getting a tattoo of infantry crossed rifles or a Marine getting an Eagle, Globe and Anchor tattoo. He is suffering from an excessive amount of hooah. > > That’s the best I can think of without actually reading the source material. “Excessive amount of hooah” is my new most favorite phrase. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2018, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brand-on-british-soldiers-forehead/826762/14 "2018-12-27T16:58:04Z")
Right up there with testoserone poisoning. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2018, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brand-on-british-soldiers-forehead/826762/15 "2018-12-28T04:51:38Z")
from [Human branding - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_branding) > [@](#): > > Branding in Britain > The punishment was adopted by the Anglo-Saxons, and the ancient law of England authorized the penalty. By the Statute of Vagabonds (1547) under King Edward VI, vagabonds and Gypsies were ordered to be branded with a large V on the breast, and brawlers with F for “fraymaker”; slaves who ran away were branded with S on the cheek or forehead. This law was repealed in England in 1550. From the time of Henry VII, branding was inflicted for all offences which received Benefit of clergy (branding of the thumbs was used around 1600 at Old Bailey to ensure that the accused who had successfully used the Benefit of Clergy defence, by reading a passage from the Bible, could not use it more than once), but it was abolished for such in 1822. In 1698 it was enacted that those convicted of petty theft or larceny, who were entitled to benefit of clergy, should be “burnt in the most visible part of the left cheek, nearest the nose.” This special ordinance was repealed in 1707. James Nayler, a Quaker who in the year 1655 was accused of claiming to be the Messiah, convicted of blasphemy in a highly publicized trial before the Second Protectorate Parliament and had his tongue bored through and his forehead branded B for “blasphemer”. > > In the Lancaster criminal court a branding iron is still preserved in the dock. It is a long bolt with a wooden handle at one end and an M (malefactor) at the other; close by are two iron loops for firmly securing the hands during the operation. The brander would, after examination, turn to the judge exclaiming “A fair mark, my lord.” Criminals were formerly ordered to hold up their hands before sentence to show if they had been previously convicted. > > In the 18th century, cold branding or branding with cold irons became the mode of nominally inflicting the punishment on prisoners of higher rank. “When Charles Moritz, a young German, visited England in 1782 he was much surprised at this custom, and in his diary mentioned the case of a clergyman who had fought a duel and killed his man in Hyde Park. Found guilty of manslaughter he was burnt in the hand, if that could be called burning which was done with a cold iron” (Markham’s Ancient Punishments of Northants, 1886). > > Such cases led to branding becoming obsolete, and it was abolished in 1829 except in the case of deserters from the army, who were marked with the letter D, not with hot irons but by tattooing with ink or gunpowder. Notoriously bad soldiers were also branded with BC (bad character). The British Mutiny Act of 1858 provided that the court-martial might, in addition to any other penalty, order deserters to be marked on the left side, 2 inches (5 cm) below the armpit, with the letter D, such letter to be not less than an inch long. In 1879 this was abolished.