# Brandeis University considers 'picnic' to be oppressive language **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 25, 2021, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016 "2021-06-25T19:26:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/201 "2021-06-28T15:36:56Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > I also had a cat named Gypsy – I named her after a character on _[MST3K](https://mst3k.fandom.com/wiki/Gypsy)_ . And MST3K has since updated the name. From your link: > This version of the character was eventually renamed “GPC,” due to increased understanding that the term “Gypsy” is offensive to some people of [Romani](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_people) origin.[[2]](https://mst3k.fandom.com/wiki/Gypsy#cite_note-2)[[3]](https://mst3k.fandom.com/wiki/Gypsy#cite_note-3)[[4]](https://mst3k.fandom.com/wiki/Gypsy#cite_note-thoughts-4) Joel has since begun referring to the smaller version of GPC as “GPC 2,” and retroactively referring to the larger version formerly known as “Gypsy” as “GPC 1.”[[5]](https://mst3k.fandom.com/wiki/Gypsy#cite_note-newpatches-5) ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/202 "2021-06-28T15:37:16Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Again, can you give me an example of when anyone has gotten into anything like trouble for using the phrase “master password”. What do you think most people are afraid of, here? Not being fired, not primarily. They are afraid of embarrassment, of being judged, of looking ignorant. And yes, of offending people, too. It’s not a big problem for you because you mostly know what is safe, what is dubious, and what is totally beyond the pale. But not everyone is so well informed. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/203 "2021-06-28T15:39:36Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > However, what this thread is actually about is taking one set of **guidance** from **one** university, and blowing it up to “Look at the crazy left, trying to ban the word _picnic_ !” > Which is the popular understanding / framing in certain right-wing forums, but is completely disingenuous at best. I hope you can appreciate that I keep trying to move past the obviously biased article which prompted the OP and talk about the merits/pitfalls of the BU PARC guidance. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/204 "2021-06-28T15:42:49Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Do you not see the difference between changing the language you use with one person, who has told you personally they don’t like it, and recommending wholesale change to everyone, when most people may well not care and some may have actually preferred the old term? Are you saying that someone like @storyteller0910 should not share with colleagues how they learned that “actors who sing” is used insultingly in some circles, and to be aware that there may be some performers who dislike being referred to in that way? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/205 "2021-06-28T15:44:50Z")
So, this great fear, is that of the possibility of being made a tiny bit uncomfortable? ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/206 "2021-06-28T15:47:59Z")
The fear of making someone a tiny bit uncomfortable is the entire rationale for most those PC proposals. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/207 "2021-06-28T15:49:03Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Your response was a non-response to the article I linked because you didn’t seem to have read it. I definitely did not. I read part of the quotes you supplied, which included references to older Asians using the term Oriental. If Asian falls out of favor among Asians, I’ll happily switch back to Oriental. Whatever. Right now, among my Asian friends, Oriental is out of favor. On your question about Jew, which wasn’t directed to me, but I’ll answer anyway, I’m leaning towards not using it ever. It seems like the usage leans more towards pejorative (Jew store, Jew banker, He’s a Jew) than descriptive (“I’m a Jew”) and I find it increasingly jarring. The only place it makes any sort of sense is “I’m a Jew”, and even that is weird – “I’m Jewish” just seems more right to me, just like “I’m German” seems more normal than “I’m a German” or “I’m Black”, etc. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/208 "2021-06-28T15:51:46Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > But instead of being happy with their achievement, these people decided to go out and look for other things to take offence at. This indicates that you think “these people” are not actually genuinely offended, just because they didn’t prioritize some things as their first targets. > [@DemonTree](#): > > If you choose the latter, don’t be surprised when they don’t want to vote for you. I don’t know about where you are, but around here we recognise appeal to consequences as a fallacy. > [@QuickSilver](#): > > I shared an example above in which non-asians decided that the word “Oriental” was no longer culturally sensitive and needed to be removed from the vernacular. An Asian wrote an opinion piece describing how it may have been misguided. And I can find [think-pieces](https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2016/05/25/478097902/my-oriental-father-on-the-words-we-use-to-describe-ourselves) by other Asians on how it _is_ bad. Where does that leave us? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/209 "2021-06-28T15:51:46Z")
On that side, it’s not so much a fear of making other uncomfortable based on the words we choose to use, but rather, a desire not do do so. Why would you want to make someone uncomfortable, when you have the ability to not do so? ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/210 "2021-06-28T15:53:05Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > > [@puzzlegal](#): > > > > Again, can you give me an example of when anyone has gotten into anything like trouble for using the phrase “master password”. > > What do you think most people are afraid of, here? Not being fired, not primarily. They are afraid of embarrassment, of being judged, of looking ignorant. And yes, of offending people, too. It’s not a big problem for you because you mostly know what is safe, what is dubious, and what is totally beyond the pale. But not everyone is so well informed. You are wrong about me. I hang out in some extremely left-edge environments, and I have probably been called out for using inappropriate terms more than most people. I even had an entire party shut up and stare at me awkwardly, once. It was bad enough that my son (who wasn’t at the party) heard about it through the grapevine and teased me about it. Now, maybe it’s “less of a problem for me” because I’ve gotten used to it, and have learned how to handle the embarrassment. FWIW, all the people at that party are still friends, and I get regular social invitations from some of the ones most directly affected by that gaffe. So I think I’m in a pretty good place to say that while the fear is obviously real, it is also out of proportion to the actual harm that might befall you. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/211 "2021-06-28T16:00:39Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Why would you want to make someone uncomfortable, when you have the ability to not do so? Why would you want to make someone uncomfortable by ‘correcting’ their use of a possibly-or-possibly-not unPC term? Presumably you think the benefits are worth the costs. Other people may disagree on those costs and benefits. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/212 "2021-06-28T16:01:10Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > On your question about Jew, which wasn’t directed to me, but I’ll answer anyway, I’m leaning towards not using it ever. It seems like the usage leans more towards pejorative (Jew store, Jew banker, He’s a Jew) than descriptive (“I’m a Jew”) and I find it increasingly jarring. The only place it makes any sort of sense is “I’m a Jew”, and even that is weird – “I’m Jewish” just seems more right to me, just like “I’m German” seems more normal than “I’m a German” or “I’m Black”, etc. fwiw, I prefer “Jew” to “Jewish person”. I describe myself as a Jew, and it’s common practice among the Jews that I hang out with to do so as well. Other groups may make different choices. However: “jew” as an adjective is pretty much always offensive, in my experience. “Jew store” or “Jew banker” are meant to be derogatory, or are tone-deaf. Similar to “lady lawyer”. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/213 "2021-06-28T16:01:19Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > And I can find [think-pieces](https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2016/05/25/478097902/my-oriental-father-on-the-words-we-use-to-describe-ourselves) by other Asians on how it _is_ bad. Where does that leave us? I think that’s an excellent article, so thanks for sharing it. I do wonder if I have the same understanding of it as you do. It seems to me that the writer is saying that racism towards Asians remains regardless of the language used to describe the community. In conclusion, I don’t see the article contradicting the one I shared earlier because the decision to not use “Oriental” as a cultural term describing Asians does not appear to have come from the Asian community. Do you disagree? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/214 "2021-06-28T16:01:52Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > FWIW, all the people at that party are still friends, and I get regular social invitations from some of the ones most directly affected by that gaffe. So I think I’m in a pretty good place to say that while the fear is obviously real, it is also out of proportion to the actual harm that might befall you. You could have demanded to know exactly to whom and how what you said was offensive. You may not get those invites, but you’d at least have the satisfaction of knowing that that discomfort you felt wasn’t your fault, but instead, due to the leftists who are out to persecute you. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/215 "2021-06-28T16:02:06Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Now, maybe it’s “less of a problem for me” because I’ve gotten used to it, and have learned how to handle the embarrassment. Fair enough. Are you open to the idea that it is a bigger deal to most other people? (Also, what did you say that was so bad?!) ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/216 "2021-06-28T16:05:38Z")
I whined about how much my grammar-sensors fire in many cases of the singular “they” in a room full of trans and non-binary people, who are much younger than I am and have no sense of how jarring it feels to someone who grew up when I did. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/217 "2021-06-28T16:08:20Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Why would you want to make someone uncomfortable by ‘correcting’ their use of a possibly-or-possibly-not unPC term? See, I think that the problem here is that you are ascribing motive here, that the leftists want to hurt you, to make you feel bad. That’s not the case, all it is is asking you to occasionally note that certain words and expressions have a particular connotation that you may not be aware of. Now that you _are_ aware of them, you don’t have to use them in contexts where they may not be agreeable. Even better and a bit meta, is the realization that there will always be words and phrases that may have a meaning that you don’t intend to convey. It’s a choice as to how one uses this information. They can use it to make the world a slightly better place, or the can use it to make themselves look like they are being persecuted. > [@DemonTree](#): > > Presumably you think the benefits are worth the costs. Your freedom to swing your arms ends at my nose. If I point out that you are hitting my nose with your gesticulations, do you take offense, or do you stop hitting me in the nose? > [@DemonTree](#): > > Other people may disagree on those costs and benefits. Right, some people like to hit people on the nose, then demand to see the bruise before they accept that they have infringed on them. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/218 "2021-06-28T16:08:20Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > This indicates that you think “these people” are not actually genuinely offended, just because they didn’t prioritize some things as their first targets. Yup, that’s exactly what I think. I recall a thread here on the Dope about whether the term ‘Indian Summer’ was offensive. No evidence was produced that anyone was offended by it, and the one (partially) Native American person to post in the thread said they didn’t find it offensive. Nevertheless, several Dopers vowed to stop using it. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/219 "2021-06-28T16:08:31Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Are you open to the idea that it is a bigger deal to most other people? Yes and no. I get that people don’t want to be embarrassed. I don’t think that’s a good reason to object to the general goal of making language more inclusive. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/220 "2021-06-28T16:08:45Z")
I see her saying that there’s as much impetus from young Asians to drop it as there is from non-Asians. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016.md?page=12)