# Brandeis University considers 'picnic' to be oppressive language **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 25, 2021, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016 "2021-06-25T19:26:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/221 "2021-06-28T16:11:51Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Nevertheless, several Dopers vowed to stop using it. Based on your recollection of this uncited thread, did those Dopers say that they would demand that others stop using it, or just that they, themselves, have enough discomfort with the phrase to remove it from their own vocabulary? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/222 "2021-06-28T16:12:09Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I see her saying that there’s as much impetus from young Asians to drop it as there is from non-Asians. And understandably so. They grew up being told that it was no longer appropriate. Not by their parents and grandparents mind you. But by well-meaning white people. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/223 "2021-06-28T16:12:43Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Yup, that’s exactly what I think. So, “these people” are liars - to what end, exactly, do you think “these people” tell these lies? ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/224 "2021-06-28T16:12:58Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > See, I think that the problem here is that you are ascribing motive here, that the leftists want to hurt you, to make you feel bad. Nope. I’ve told you your fist keeps hitting me in the nose, but you won’t accept it; you keep demanding to see the bruise. ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/225 "2021-06-28T16:13:09Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > The students in BU PARC Nitpick: BU is what locals call Boston University, a well-known institution in the same area of _Brandeis University_. Brandeis was just called _Brandeis_. Same number of shorthand syllables but a different institution altogether from Boston University. Both fine schools with many illustrious alumni. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/226 "2021-06-28T16:13:41Z")
That’s not what she says - she gives a good rationale for why the term is offensive to her, and “White people told me so” is not it. Nor is Grace Meng a White person, either. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/227 "2021-06-28T16:14:54Z")
I stand corrected: _Brandeis._ ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/228 "2021-06-28T16:15:00Z")
I think @DemonTree rather alludes to the keyboard study’s basic point in [**post #146**](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/146). [With luck, **DemonTree,** you’ll see that my singling you out in this case isn’t meant to be done _at your expense_] I have a neighbor who’s a millennial and has done quite well in tech. I’m 2+ decades older than he. Each time I see him he seems to have a new ‘hip’ handshake with which to greet me. Which I never know, and always laugh about with no malice intended. I neither have easy access to, nor interest in, staying current on The Hip New Handshake Du Jour. But I could if I wanted to, and I **would** if my gaffes were causing anybody any harm. Some of these changes and accommodations _are_ harder for some than for others. I think the keyboard study gives us some insight into that. Rather than admit that the change is harder, though, and ask for a wee bit of patience and grace, **some** decry the whole thing as utter nonsense to be shat on forcefully and with great jubilation, and used to gain votes in elections. Among numerous other malign uses … ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/229 "2021-06-28T16:16:20Z")
They want to help people - even if those people didn’t ask for that help - and they want to show what good people they are, and get to feel the rosy glow of virtue. I believe in their good intentions. But good intentions don’t guarantee you don’t do harm, do they? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/230 "2021-06-28T16:19:05Z")
Right, the persecution complex, I know. But that’s the whole thing is to get over that, and realize that not everything is about _you_. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/231 "2021-06-28T16:20:39Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > That’s not what she says - she gives a good rationale for why the term is offensive to her, and “White people told me so” is not it. To avoid misunderstanding, would you be kind enough to quote the passage in the article where she provides her rational? Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/232 "2021-06-28T16:20:49Z")
No, it’s not about me, it’s about the 80% of Americans who hate PC culture. Anytime you want to stop your nose punching… ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/233 "2021-06-28T16:21:47Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > BU PARC Brandeis University, not Boston University. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/234 "2021-06-28T16:22:14Z")
It would be a lot quicker just to type “virtue signaling” rather than dance around the term. So you think “these people” lie about their perceived offense in order to virtue signal, do I have that right? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/235 "2021-06-28T16:24:49Z")
Sorry, of course I meant the general you. Those who feel persecuted by someone asking them to no longer use a certain phrase or expression in a particular context. There will always be those how insist on making it all about them, and how much they resent being asked to be a slightly better person. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/236 "2021-06-28T16:28:42Z")
rational_e_, and it’s in more than one place, but this is the primary one: > cringe-inducing and pretty sinister at its base, meant to box one group away for another’s comfort. To him, it’s neutral, neither bad nor good. But when I hear the term, it brings up that cartoonish “Kung Fu Fighting” melody and caricatures of grinning Asian men with ponytails and buckteeth. Nothing there about White people saying anything, it’s all about the feelings the word evokes in her. She also says > scholars and activists alike turned away from words like it and “Negro” in favor of **self-appointed** terms like “Asian,” “Asian-American,” “black” and “African-American.” which implies she sees it as _self-directed_ change. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/237 "2021-06-28T16:33:12Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Nothing there about White people saying anything, it’s all about the feelings the word evokes in her. Agreed. She’s talking about her personal experience because Asians have a history of being a discriminated minority in America. > [@MrDibble](#): > > which implies she sees it as _self-directed_ change. I beg to differ. The majority of “scholars and activists” in America remain majority white. And certainly whiter when the move away from the term “Oriental” began. Dispute that if you like. But you’ll be wrong. Also, the article I linked does talk about “white guilt” so my claim was not entirely without basis. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/238 "2021-06-28T16:37:20Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I beg to differ. The majority of “scholars and activists” in America remain majority white. But those can’t be the portion of scholars and activists she’s talking about: > **self-appointed** terms like “Asian,” “Asian-American,” “black” and “African-American.” What is “self” referring to there, if not the groups delineated by the terms following? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/239 "2021-06-28T16:38:19Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > No, it’s not about me, it’s about the 80% of Americans who hate PC culture. > > Anytime you want to stop your nose punching… There is that number again, in reality at most one can say that just about 57% in the US, (less in European countries) with the right wing making the bulk of that number. > **[Views About National Identity Becoming More Inclusive in U.S., Western Europe](https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2021/05/05/views-about-national-identity-becoming-more-inclusive-in-us-western-europe/)** > > Large ideological divides persist on views of tradition, national pride and discrimination, especially in the U.S. Incidentally, from the same group of polls made there, being concerned a bit about political correctness does not mean that people oppose change, most Americans do realize that “Our country will be better in the future if it is open to changes regarding traditions and ways of life” (60%). There are also more Americans (and people in other countries) where most people do think that many are ignoring or missing that discrimination is still here. (61%) ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/240 "2021-06-28T16:44:25Z")
Forgive me because I don’t want this to come across as being culturally insensitive, but for a while in America, African-American was the catch all term for Black Americans. Until it started to decline for legitimately good reasons. Not all Black Americans wanted to be called African-American. In fact, it seems that a large proportion did not. It was well meaning non-black Americans that helped popularize the term “African-American”. Am I mistaken? All that to say, I take her use of “self-appointed” in this context with a dash of salt. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016.md?page=13)