# Brandeis University considers 'picnic' to be oppressive language **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 25, 2021, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016 "2021-06-25T19:26:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/241 "2021-06-28T16:49:08Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > it’s about the 80% of Americans who hate PC culture. That’s because “PC culture” is a snarl word. If you ask them, “is it OK to call black people the n-word?” They’ll say no. “Can you call all Asians “Chinese”?” No again. “Should you call gay people the f word?” No, once more. “Should you call women who carry mail “mailmen”?” No. Etc. It’s like Obamacare. “Do you like Obamacare?” “No!” How about the Affordable Care Act, which allowed people with existing conditions to get covered, allowed you to cover your children until they were 26, and so on? “Yeah! Sign me up!” ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/242 "2021-06-28T16:49:09Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > No, it’s not about me, it’s about the 80% of Americans who hate PC culture. I don’t know how many people might say in a poll “I am concerned about political correctness”, but I suspect that many fewer people actually worry in their daily lives that someone will call them out for the language they actually use. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/243 "2021-06-28T16:50:51Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Why would you want to make someone uncomfortable by ‘correcting’ their use of a possibly-or-possibly-not unPC term? Presumably you think the benefits are worth the costs. Other people may disagree on those costs and benefits. In one case, you’re making someone uncomfortable because of who they are (a minority, LGBTQ, a woman, whatever), and the other case, you’re making someone uncomfortable because of their word usage. Which is easier to change? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/244 "2021-06-28T16:51:47Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > It was well meaning non-black Americans that helped popularize the term “African-American”. Am I mistaken? I don’t know, “helped popularize” is such a wishy-washy statement, it would of course be true. They didn’t invent the modern usage, and American Blacks certainly did their part in pushing for it in the 80s and 90s. If you were meaning to imply African-Americans weren’t involved, and just Whites led the charge, you would be mistaken, yes. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/245 "2021-06-28T17:10:31Z")
Right. Which, if I may circle back, is often what well meaning but not cultur- or group-associated individuals (like the PARC students) who promote certain ideas or ideologies do on behalf of some fraction of society and try to drive change without having a full and complete understanding of that culture or group, or its wants and priorities. And it behooves us to think critically, rather than follow blindly, their proposals, no matter how well meaning they may seem at first flush. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/246 "2021-06-28T17:12:16Z")
What makes you so sure the PARC students aren’t members of the relevant groups or cultures? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/247 "2021-06-28T17:13:20Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > It’s like Obamacare. “Do you like Obamacare?” “No!” How about the Affordable Care Act, which allowed people with existing conditions to get covered, allowed you to cover your children until they were 26, and so on? “Yeah! Sign me up!” On that note, I do remember that the ACA numbers were a bit on the side of people opposing ACA. What many pundits from the right ignored is that a good chunk of that opposition was from the left that saw the ACA as not being good enough. In retrospective, that did not mean that all people supported the right wing’s effort to demolish the ACA, but when right wing politicians then attempted to destroy the good that was left, most of the left’s opposition to the ACA melted away. With many polls nowadays showing that most people support the ACA. Similarly, the right wing is assuming here that since most people do think that PC is an issue they think that most people there are supportive of what the right is doing in regard to PC. Nope, [in reality it is more likely that seeing the right wing demonize words and concepts that the left used before](https://www.colorlines.com/articles/how-woke-became-slur), increases the numbers of people in polls that are concerned about PC. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/248 "2021-06-28T17:19:58Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > What makes you so sure the PARC students aren’t members of the relevant groups or cultures? Which group or culture thinks these terms need alternative language?: > Crazy, Insane, Wild > > Lame > > Walk-in > > Long time no see > > No can do And why should we accept as fact that they are a representative of that community? ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/249 "2021-06-28T17:22:13Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Which group or culture thinks these terms need alternative language?: > […] > And why should we accept as fact that they are a representative of that community? ??? Well that’s obviously a discussion that we would have if and when such a proposal came up. I’m not really sure what your suggestion is…that anyone thinks that whatever Brandeis comes up with must be gospel? Or is it just the typical slippery slope fallacy? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/250 "2021-06-28T17:25:17Z")
The mentally ill, the differently-abled, and Asians and Native Americans, among others (_others_ including, you know, just plain old empathetic people). Let’s not pretend that making fun of the way Asians and other groups speak, e.g. _long time no see_, is not a thing, that would be heading for disingenuousness . And no-one said you _had_ to accept their representativeness - but you’re doing far more than that, with your line of argument. You’re actively denying any possibility of representation at all. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/251 "2021-06-28T17:28:52Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Let’s not pretend that making fun of the way Asians and other groups speak, e.g. _long time no see_ , is not a thing, that would be heading for disingenuousness . I actually thought this was proposed by the visually impaired. It never occurred to me that it’s making fun of Asians or Native Americans or whatever. Interesting. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/252 "2021-06-28T17:32:26Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > It never occurred to me that it’s making fun of Asians or Native Americans or whatever. Yep, although sometimes the [etymologies are uncertain](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_time_no_see), and sometimes [less so](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/no_can_do), the style is clear. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/253 "2021-06-28T17:35:14Z")
I’ve been quite clear in saying that I don’t consider PARC to be setting Brandeis University policy. This is merely a conversation about how far the definition of “Offensive Language” can/should be taken. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/254 "2021-06-28T17:40:28Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Which group or culture thinks these terms need alternative language?: > > > Crazy, Insane, Wild > [@MrDibble](#): > > The mentally ill I know several people who are actually mentally ill who are actually offended by calling bad thing “crazy”. That one isn’t even slightly hypothetical. I feel like “lame” is used rarely enough to describe the physically disabled that it’s less likely to cause offense. (And my lamest friend – in the literal sense – has joked about it, and doesn’t find it offensive). But it doesn’t seem like a nice way to say what is intended anyway, so I tend not to use the word. I’m actually more likely to use “crazy”, but I’m working on that, as I have offended people with it. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/255 "2021-06-28T17:41:48Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > I actually thought this was proposed by the visually impaired. It never occurred to me that it’s making fun of Asians or Native Americans or whatever. I wonder how many Asians or Native Americans are aware and object to its use. How many use it as part of their common daily language without so much as a thought to offense. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/256 "2021-06-28T17:50:57Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > And no-one said you _had_ to accept their representativeness - but you’re doing far more than that, with your line of argument. You’re actively denying any possibility of representation at all. We’ve established clear examples in which “representativeness” is often misleading, even in comparatively large populations. I’m not denying it outright. I’m expressing skepticism that a couple dozen well meaning undergrads have it all figured out. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/257 "2021-06-28T17:52:47Z")
No-one’s saying anyone has anything “all figured out”. The PARC list is just examples people have raised. It’s a parade of possibles. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/258 "2021-06-28T17:54:48Z")
And who don’t love a parade. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/259 "2021-06-28T18:07:21Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Shame, shame on Stanford University and Evergreen College. Reed College is in the clear, though. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/260 "2021-06-28T18:33:48Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > But that made me think about why the word “Oriental” fell out of the popular vernacular so I did some homework and found this opinion piece: > > > [@](#): > > > > It is now politically incorrect to use the word “Oriental,” and the admonition has the force of law: President Obama recently signed a bill prohibiting use of the term in all federal documents. I was curious about this claim, so I did a bit of research. Pretty sure the author is referring to this: > **[Obama signs bill eliminating 'Negro,' 'Oriental' from federal laws](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/obama-signs-bill-eliminating-negro-spanish-speaking-oriental-from-federal-laws)** > > After it was unanimously passed with 380 votes, President Barack Obama signed bill H.R. 4238 on Friday, which amends two federal acts from the '70s that define “minorities” with terms that are now insensitive or outdated. What did the law actually do? > [@](#): > > The Department of Energy Act has for decades described “minorities” as, “a Negro, Puerto Rican, American Indian, Eskimo, Oriental, or Aleut or is a Spanish speaking individual of Spanish descent.” > > The new bill changes the language to, “Asian American, Native Hawaiian, a Pacific Islander, African American, Hispanic, Puerto Rican, Native American, or an Alaska Native.” There’s also similar language in the Local Public Works Capital Development and Investment Act. So, “force of law” is kind of misleading there. It’s not like anyone’s getting arrested for using the word “oriental.” It’s not even making some sort of declaration about the appropriateness of the word, it’s just updating old laws to use contemporary terminology. Terminology which the author of the piece you posted acknowledges has been falling out of usage since the 1950s. I also can’t help but note that the author’s profession is in “Oriental Medicine.” Googling her name, I see that she is, specifically, an acupuncturist - a pseudoscience which has repeatedly failed to demonstrate useful effects in rigorous medical trials. It’s not surprising that she’s supportive of the term “Oriental.” They exoticization that people like Jeff Yang and Erika Lee find problematic with the term is the basis of her entire career. She relies on folks (largely white, I’m willing to bet) who prize “ancient Chinese secrets” over replicable results in a clinical setting. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016.md?page=14)