# Brandeis University considers 'picnic' to be oppressive language **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 25, 2021, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016 "2021-06-25T19:26:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2021, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/301 "2021-06-29T12:54:10Z")
He wasn’t fired, was he? I’m just pointing out that there’s more to the story. You keep adding a slant that isn’t warranted, in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2021, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/302 "2021-06-29T13:00:31Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > …need to hear and consider this without dismissing it as right-wing FoxNews fiction and fearmongering But, we agree that the article that spawned this thread was utter bullshit, right? ---
**Author:** ![kevlaw](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kevlaw/32/2281_2.png) [@kevlaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kevlaw)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2021, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/303 "2021-06-29T13:02:40Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > How is this a defense of the word “gypsy”, though, which is the thing you were originally saying you were rolling your eyes at? I just Googled. I didn’t find ALL the sites about gypsies but all the ones I found (sites ranging from Gypsy run sites, to lefty newspapers, to encyclopaedias to dictionaries) said something along the lines of ‘Gypsy is the preferred collective term that gypsies use to refer to themselves’. Individually, they are Roma and Travellers but, collectively, they are gypsies. The word is an exonym (it’s not a word they chose for themselves) and it’s based on a misconception about where they came from but it’s the word they use to describe themselves. There was a Guardian article about a TV show called My Big Fat Gypsy Wedding (I missed this as I was in the USA at the time). It appears to have been made by and for gypsies. The Guardian section for gypsy issues is called “Roma, Gypsies and Travellers”. ‘Gypsy’ is the right word. I rolled my eyes when I heard that someone was cancelled for using it on Jeopardy. It may be different in the USA but that’s the right word in the UK. I expect this will change now, as the manufactured outrage crosses the Atlantic, but as at 2021, that’s the word. > [@Mijin](#): > > it’s worth acknowledging that PC and “Cancel culture” is 99% manufactured outrage by dishonest sources like FOX and the Daily Mail. Beyond that, sure, let’s talk about whether certain recommendations from so and so Uni go too far. This is the crux of the debate, IMO. You say 99%, I say 41%. There is manufactured outrage but your blindness to the genuine outrage is damaging to progressive causes. > [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](#): > > Are you talking about FA chief Greg Clarke? I just read a story about him that sounds similar to what you’re describing, but it’s not quite a match. This is a story from November of 2020. > [@Mijin](#): > > I can’t believe I assumed someone’s description of a “PC gone mad!” incident was accurate. I broke my own rule I stand by my original assessment. Forcing him to resign was like breaking a butterfly on a wheel. Did you read the CNN article? Did you read his apology? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2021, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/304 "2021-06-29T13:09:59Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > But, we agree that the article that spawned this thread was utter bullshit, right? Fuck yeah. I said so at the start. ETA: Though I do believe that “picnic” was a word on the PARC site that they later took down. It would be a stretch for to publish such an outright lie. I’m happy to retract this if proven wrong. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2021, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/305 "2021-06-29T13:12:58Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Liberals, progressives, lefties, etc… of whom I consider myself to be one, need to hear and consider this without dismissing it as right-wing Fox News fiction and fearmongering. We can all recognize when the right is manufacturing outrage. But the above is not the product of the right-wing lunatic fringe machine. It’s what they are responding to. It’s the grist for their mill. The question is, can we on the left adjust our behaviour in such a way as to not be quite such easy targets? Uh, it was. Besides not being the university, the ones responsible for the list removed the word from that list. As seen by the replies, the right wing fringe machine doesn’t notice the adjusting behavior. It is like the **woke** word, most on the left already censor themselves from using the word that has been demonized by the right wing fringe for no good reason. Of course there is a benefit on seeing the loony right continuing to harp on words like woke after the behavior of the left was adjusted and blacks and progressives are avoiding their use because of the meaning that powerful guys in the right and centrists decided the word should mean. So now commentators and politicians from the right can be dismissed when they continue with the easy and lazy change that they made to the meaning of woke. They can’t let go of the now easy slur even after they already succeeded into changing the behavior of the leftists. ---
**Author:** ![kevlaw](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kevlaw/32/2281_2.png) [@kevlaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kevlaw)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2021, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/306 "2021-06-29T13:13:29Z")
> [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](#): > > He wasn’t fired, was he? > > I’m just pointing out that there’s more to the story. You keep adding a slant that isn’t warranted, in my opinion Which is why I did not say he was fired. > [@me](#): > > A few weeks ago, an official in the FA (like the NFL, but for football) had to resign What’s the slant that I am adding? ---
**Author:** ![kevlaw](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kevlaw/32/2281_2.png) [@kevlaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kevlaw)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2021, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/307 "2021-06-29T13:18:22Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > But, we agree that the article that spawned this thread was utter bullshit, right? I expect it was. Most of them are. ETA. I wonder how much the rabble-rousers of the right are aware of this second order effect: 1. Left says something that is a little bit “out there”. 2. Rabble-Rousers on right write an over-the-top article about it. 3. Left says “nothing to see here”. It’s just something the people on the right made up. If they are doing it on purpose, it sure is working. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2021, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/308 "2021-06-29T13:20:22Z")
The left cannot complain about the right not modifying their behavior when we feed into their frenzy. We on the left are responsible for what we say and do. So it behooves us to be more circumspect. Now, is that an unfair demand given how irresponsible the right is much of the time? Maybe. But that is the price to pay in a socio-political landscape. There’s no crying in realpolitik. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2021, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/309 "2021-06-29T13:22:32Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > The left cannot complain about the right not modifying their behavior when we feed into their frenzy. Uh, the example I gave was not about a bad word, it was about a word that even originally it was not given a bad meaning, but it was turned into a bad one by the right. Ignoring that is to fall for the lazy and easy way they are changing language in oppressive ways. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2021, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/310 "2021-06-29T13:25:44Z")
I think we’re talking past each other. I’m not saying that the left can control how the right responds. If the right wants to demonize the word “woke” then there is not a damn thing the left can do about it. What the left can do a better job of is not to play into the right’s hand with “picnic” (among other examples given). ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2021, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/311 "2021-06-29T13:29:03Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > What do you think most people are afraid of, here? Not being fired, not primarily. They are afraid of embarrassment, of being judged, of looking ignorant. And yes, of offending people, too. It’s not a big problem for you because you mostly know what is safe, what is dubious, and what is totally beyond the pale. But not everyone is so well informed. And why are people afraid of it? I propose it’s the same reason they’re afraid of voter fraud and of hordes of immigrants pouring into their country to take their jobs and deal drugs and go on rape-and-murder sprees. People are afraid of these issues, not because they’re real threats to their lives, well-being, and happiness, **but because of Rupert Fucking Murdoch**. There’s a tremendous rightwing fear-and-outrage industry that is tremendously successful at getting people upset and afraid of non-issues. This is one of many successes they’ve had. The solution to the fear of PC embarrassment isn’t for us to tell all undergrads across the world to stop being concerned about issues of fairness and justice. The solution isn’t for us to somehow calibrate their level of concern so it exactly matches **DemonTree’s**. The solution is for us to tear down the fearmongers at Fox and friends. Or, failing that, to at least quit amplifying their bullshit message. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2021, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/312 "2021-06-29T13:30:41Z")
But the picnic word, as compared with the example made, is like a molehill compared to a mountain. And turning molehills into mountains is another thing the right are experts on. As it is also the act of nutpicking. You are then falling for their fallacy, to fall for their idea that a fringe of a fringe are all the people with left leaning ideas. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2021, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/313 "2021-06-29T13:32:10Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > And why are people afraid of it? Because it’s fucking happened to them, that’s why. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2021, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/314 "2021-06-29T13:34:54Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > What do you think most people are afraid of, here? Not being fired, not primarily. They are afraid of embarrassment, of being judged, of looking ignorant. And yes, of offending people, too. It’s not a big problem for you because you mostly know what is safe, what is dubious, and what is totally beyond the pale. But not everyone is so well informed. If only there was a way to inform others about that. Oh well, never mind. Powerful conservatives are banning the teaching of history and etymologies that would prevent errors like that in schools and workplaces. /s ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2021, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/315 "2021-06-29T13:36:17Z")
This OP is not large enough to encompass all the mistakes the left has made in well meaning efforts to arrive at a more just society. So I’m using the contextual examples to illustrate the point. Even at that, people love to speak in generalities to avoid the very specific examples of mistakes made. Call it nutpicking if you like. But it should be clear by now that there are enough examples of left-wing nuttery to fill a snickers bar. ---
**Author:** ![kevlaw](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kevlaw/32/2281_2.png) [@kevlaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kevlaw)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2021, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/316 "2021-06-29T13:37:45Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > And why are people afraid of it? I propose it’s the same reason they’re afraid of voter fraud and of hordes of immigrants pouring into their country to take their jobs and deal drugs and go on rape-and-murder sprees. > > People are afraid of these issues, not because they’re real threats to their lives, well-being, and happiness, **but because of Rupert Fucking Murdoch**. Keep repeating that it’s because we watch too much Murdoch and I’ll keep denying it. I read The Guardian. Keep repeating that I’m afraid of voter fraud and hordes of immigrants and I’ll keep denying it. It’s not true. It might be true of some other people but not the people you are talking to in this conversation. I probably believe most of the things that you believe. I think it’s harmful to our cause that you pretend that I don’t. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2021, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/317 "2021-06-29T13:38:35Z")
Fun size it seems. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2021, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/318 "2021-06-29T13:40:14Z")
Heh! 😆 ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2021, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/319 "2021-06-29T13:41:05Z")
> [@kevlaw](#): > > It might be true of some other people but not the people you are talking to in this conversation. I probably believe most of the things that you believe. I think it’s harmful to our cause that you pretend that I don’t. I’m not him, but the point I did make is that we should be better than the conservative guys that fall for exaggerations, misleading info and spin coming from sources controlled by Murdock and the like. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2021, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/320 "2021-06-29T13:45:01Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > I’m not him, but the point I did make is that we should be better than the conservative guys that fall for exaggerations, misleading info and spin coming from sources controlled by Murdock and the like. Can we not do two things at once? Can we be good at not falling for right-wing bullshit while also trying to make less unforced errors? Because I think we’re already pretty good at the former. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016.md?page=17)