# Brandeis University considers 'picnic' to be oppressive language **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 25, 2021, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016 "2021-06-25T19:26:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2021, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/421 "2021-07-01T17:00:10Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Where do you even live? Well I’ve been an expat these last few years but I spend a month in the UK each year, and of course still watch British news and TV, and communicate regularly with my friends and family in the UK. I’ve not heard either of the terms you mention. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2021, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/422 "2021-07-01T17:17:03Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > If someone else gets upset over some word or phrasing that I think is innocuous, should I dismiss their feelings, or say they need to be better educated or just toughen up? Or should I try to understand, and take them seriously? I think you should take them seriously. > [@DemonTree](#): > > That’s what I was taught to do. But I took the lesson to heart; I decided I should do the same with people who are unhappy over political correctness, and I found I sympathised with them too. But word choice isn’t personal the way a descriptor is. Gently correcting someone’s word choice is simply not equivalent to calling a Down syndrome child “mongoloid” for example, or calling a person with a learning disorder “retarded.” ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2021, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/423 "2021-07-01T17:17:41Z")
I think my only problem with the list is that I don’t find it particularly useful. They’ve listed African-American, f\*g, and walk-in as oppressive and I keep hearing that Sesame Street tune in my head, “One of these things is not like the others. One of these things doesn’t belong.” I can’t really take it seriously. I’m in agreement that people shouldn’t use some of the words on the list. But some of their other choices just leave me baffled. And if someone called me out for using walk-in, wild, or take-a-stab in a sentence I’d probably politely tell them to piss off. And, no, I’m not one of those people who rails against PC culture or SJWs because I want to use the N word or misgender people. I’m generally happy calling people whatever they want to be called. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2021, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/424 "2021-07-01T17:30:56Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > …or calling a person with a learning disorder “retarded.” This is entirely misrepresenting the issue. I suspect that the overwhelming majority of Trump voters would not and do not use that word to describe a person with actual mental challenges. (And fuck those who do.) What they appear to object to, if we pause to listen, is when they are admonished for using that term in any other unrelated context. i.e. “Billy-Bob, you retard! What’d you think was gonna happen when you was smokin’ while fuelin’ your truck?” ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2021, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/425 "2021-07-01T17:34:54Z")
OK, use another example then. Saying “my Oriental friend here” is more harmful than being gently corrected to “I think Asian is the preferred term now.” Saying, “hey, stop trying to Jew me down” is more hurtful than being told that is pretty offensive. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2021, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/426 "2021-07-01T17:38:24Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > But word choice isn’t personal the way a descriptor is. Gently correcting someone’s word choice is simply not equivalent to calling a Down syndrome child “mongoloid” for example, or calling a person with a learning disorder “retarded.” ‘Take a stab’, ‘picnic’, ‘trigger warning’, aren’t personal either. Calling something crazy or lame isn’t personal. ‘Slave drive’ isn’t personal. Right now there’s a thread in ATMB talking about moderation, and one of the things that’s come up is how badly many people react to being corrected in public. The same thing applies here. I actually think it’s comparable to the idea of microaggressions. @QuickSilver correcting his mother is a microaggression. Do it too often and people will try to avoid speaking on the contentious subject at all. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2021, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/427 "2021-07-01T17:42:28Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > ‘Take a stab’, ‘picnic’, ‘trigger warning’, aren’t personal either. Calling something crazy or lame isn’t personal. ‘Slave drive’ isn’t personal. I thought we had all agreed that the list in the OP is just food for thought? Do you still think this is Brandeis University telling you what to think? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2021, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/428 "2021-07-01T17:42:38Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > This is entirely misrepresenting the issue. I suspect that the overwhelming majority of Trump voters would not and do not use that word to describe a person with actual mental challenges. [Remember this?](https://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/5873dcc01700008801929005.png?cache=009lwvfec8&ops=1778_1000) ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2021, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/429 "2021-07-01T17:43:34Z")
The only politician whose followers are all better than him. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2021, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/430 "2021-07-01T17:44:09Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > OK, use another example then. Saying “my Oriental friend here” is more harmful than being gently corrected to “I think Asian is the preferred term now.” Saying, “hey, stop trying to Jew me down” is more hurtful than being told that is pretty offensive. Boy have you hit the bullseye here. I’ve already explained my personal experience with correcting the use of “Oriental”. Now, my own ex-father-in-law used the term “Jew me down” with me standing right there. Now, in his defense, he thought the terms was “Chew me down” and in fact said that not meaning to insult me in any way. But my then ex-wife-to-be, corrected him on the spot. Making both him and me and all their friends who were socializing in the kitchen feel quite uncomfortable in the moment. I’ve no idea if he ever used that term again. Certainly not around me. But he was the kind of small town guy who would absolutely be sheepish at being corrected for using a term which he wasn’t even aware of being an insult and didn’t even mean it that way. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2021, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/431 "2021-07-01T17:45:18Z")
> [@Mighty\_Mouse](#): > > The only politician whose followers are all better than him. Highly debatable. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2021, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/432 "2021-07-01T17:46:03Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Remember this? Remember this? > [@QuickSilver](#): > > (And fuck those who do.) ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2021, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/433 "2021-07-01T17:48:04Z")
I’m being sarcastic. The defense of the Trump voters seems to be, he may be a racist, sexist, lying, offensive piece of shit, and I voted for him, but I am not any of those things. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2021, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/434 "2021-07-01T17:52:40Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Remember this? I sure do, but it’s not really relevant. I wasn’t talking about how _you_ felt about making fun of people with disabilities. I was disagreeing that an “overwhelming majority” of Trump voters would agree its inappropriate. But this is getting off-topic. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2021, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/435 "2021-07-01T17:54:16Z")
> [@Mighty\_Mouse](#): > > The only politician whose followers are all better than him. > [@Miller](#): > > Highly debatable. Indeed. [https://thedailybanter.com/2018/10/09/republican-voters-are-trash/](https://thedailybanter.com/2018/10/09/republican-voters-are-trash/) (Cited mostly for the image where some Trump supporters used a “Trump 2016 F\*\*\* Your Feelings” in a rally, but the article also applies to most conservative sources out there) ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2021, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/436 "2021-07-01T18:32:41Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > I thought we had all agreed that the list in the OP is just food for thought? What’s there to think about? Presumably someone, somewhere finds those terms offensive. If you don’t recognise any costs to changing terminology, only benefits, then the only possible conclusion is that you should adopt all their suggestions immediately. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2021, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/437 "2021-07-01T18:37:03Z")
I think our chance for productive conversation has passed. I’ll keep an eye out for those costs you’re supposed to post, though, in response to **Mijin**. Have a great weekend. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2021, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/438 "2021-07-01T18:39:11Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > What’s there to think about? Presumably someone, somewhere finds those terms offensive. If you don’t recognise any costs to changing terminology, only benefits, then the only possible conclusion is that you should adopt all their suggestions immediately. Uh, that is one reason why an argument from authority is a fallacy when the authority is not the proper one. In this case, the original source (The Examiner) lied (or misled others) by pretending or implying that the University was making the list and recommending the usage in an official way. This is less likely to be followed (as it should) as it was a student org. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2021, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/439 "2021-07-01T19:00:46Z")
I thought the conversation had progressed well past what The Examiner article said (which was misleading) and well into whether this kind of attempt to modify language was well considered in this case, and what impact it has in a more general case. But if you’re not ready to move on past the shitty article, by all means, let’s have a vote about whether everyone still agrees it was shitty. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2021, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/440 "2021-07-01T19:17:02Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > But if you’re not ready to move on past the shitty article, by all means, let’s have a vote about whether everyone still agrees it was shitty. Uh, that was **RitterSport** pointing out that yep, we should be out of that, and then **DemonTree** insisting on still looking at those terms (in the OP list) as offensive and that we should, by some authoritative reason, adopt the suggestions immediately. The point that stands is that the reason why that list came into the conservative radar, that a seemingly appropriate authority (the university) was proposing it, remains a fallacy too. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016.md?page=21) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016.md?page=23)