# Brandeis University considers 'picnic' to be oppressive language **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 25, 2021, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016 "2021-06-25T19:26:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2021, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/61 "2021-06-26T16:16:52Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > > [@Dangerosa](#): > > > > Likewise, the assumption that black is bad (blacklist/black balled) is one of the things that cements unintentional bias in people. > > So chess, checkers and othello game makers - take note? Come on now! There’s nothing negative about the black pieces in chess, checkers, or othello. Sometimes a color is just a color. But words like black balled, black market, black sheep, blacklist, and blackmail are all talking about negative things. Offhand, the only idiom I can think of which uses black in a positive sense is the financial one about being in the black. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2021, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/62 "2021-06-26T16:21:44Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > But words like black balled, black market, black sheep, blacklist, and blackmail are all talking about negative things. Offhand, the only idiom I can think of which uses black in a positive sense is the financial one about being in the black. Whitewash and white-knight are also negative terms. These are just common language idioms that have no race related connotations. Unless people insist on giving them one. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2021, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/63 "2021-06-26T16:30:38Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > The fact language evolves naturally is totally different to a cultural elite forcing changes on the less powerful for their own aggrandisement. Anyone ever tell you how English ended up with so many French loan-words? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2021, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/64 "2021-06-26T16:34:49Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > The fact language evolves naturally is totally different to a cultural elite forcing changes on the less powerful for their own aggrandisement. I think putting the PARC folks in the league of “cultural elite” is giving them far more credibility and credit than they deserve. They’re a punchline for including the word “picnic”, among other silly terms. I think we run the risk of giving them legitimacy when we elevate them above being mere cultural rebels without a clue. Point. Laugh. Move on. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2021, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/65 "2021-06-26T16:47:28Z")
Don’t worry, this scary, scary tiny group of strangers isn’t going to hurt you, no matter how much right wing media pumps up their importance. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2021, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/66 "2021-06-26T17:09:06Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Likewise, the assumption that black is bad (blacklist/black balled) is one of the things that cements unintentional bias in people. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > But words like black balled, black market, black sheep, blacklist, and blackmail are all talking about negative things. > [@QuickSilver](#): > > Whitewash and white-knight are also negative terms. These are just common language idioms that have no race related connotations. Unless people insist on giving them one. But the “white” in whitewash and white knight are positive parts of a negative phrase. They indicate that the goal was to be or appear metaphorically more pure or noble, but failing due to being fake or ostentatious yet useless. I actually _do_ think that using the terms “black” and “white” for good and bad things can lead to unconscious bias. But the solution isn’t to stop using that language, the solution is to stop using them as racial descriptors because not only do they have this metaphorical baggage, they also have baggage of their own as racial descriptors, and are scientifically inaccurate descriptions of peoples’ skin tone. That was the laudable goal behind the failed attempt to use “African American” instead of “Black”. I don’t actually know a good alternative term to use, since “Black” seems to have a consensus from African-Americans, and is slightly more accurate because while it does incorrectly refer to a skin color, Caribbean-Americans and recently arrived immigrants from Africa are not African-American but are still treated as “Black” by a lot of society. However, “European-American” _is_ more clearly a better term than “white”. It more precisely describes who is treated as “white” currently in America, because while America does not treat other Caucasian and Caucasian-adjacent people as poorly as Black people, there are still a lot of stereotypes about middle-eastern and Indian people around, not to mention anti-Latin American bias. It has edge cases but not as many. And it has the benefit of not using the historical metaphor of “white = good”, and is less scientifically inaccurate. Whenever I hear the term “white” used in a racial context it feels like a big strawman since the term “white” is used for positive things. It feels like people are saying “I dub thee white, and therefore, since I consider you white, you must consider yourself white as well, and since you consider yourself white, you must think yourself superior since “white” has a historical connotation of “good” both racially and non-racially”. I actually think that calling people “white” and “black” does cement unintentional bias. But the solution is to ditch the racial terms, not to ditch centuries of entrenched metaphor. It wouldn’t be that hard to do since the last 2 decades have shown that people – at least the people who care about equitable language – aren’t averse to adopting new terms for people. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2021, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/67 "2021-06-26T17:13:26Z")
Moderating: Please dial back the hostility and remember you’re in IMHO. Also, attack the post and not the poster. Not a warning. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2021, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/68 "2021-06-26T17:27:35Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > I actually _do_ think that using the terms “black” and “white” for good and bad things can lead to unconscious bias. But the solution isn’t to stop using that language, the solution is to stop using them as racial descriptors because not only do they have this metaphorical baggage, they also have baggage of their own as racial descriptors, and are scientifically inaccurate descriptions of peoples’ skin tone. You should write BLM and explain this to them. Let us know how that goes. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2021, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/69 "2021-06-26T17:35:24Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > But words like black balled, black market, black sheep, blacklist, and blackmail are all talking about negative things. Offhand, the only idiom I can think of which uses black in a positive sense is the financial one about being in the black. There’s also Black Friday, which might be related to the financial one. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2021, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/70 "2021-06-26T17:43:26Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > We can call out (or at least not give in to) moronic behavior, no matter whose political ox is being gored. I think “this means we must cut down all trees!” Is a moronic argument, so I called it out. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2021, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/71 "2021-06-26T17:46:05Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > There’s also Black Friday, which might be related to the financial one. That one’s in a gray area. (See what I did there?) I have heard stories that the term originated among businesses to indicate that the sales would put the yearly financial figures “in the black”. But the term has now gone past being a business insider term and is used by the general public in a different sense. I feel the term evolved because while people like the sales, they hate the crowds and the stress. Shopping on Black Friday isn’t seen as something fun to do; it’s more like something unpleasant you do in order to achieve a desired goal. Like going to the dentist. And in that sense, I feel the term has generally negative connotations. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2021, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/72 "2021-06-26T17:50:01Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > That one’s in a gray area. Reported for maligning us old folks. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2021, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/73 "2021-06-26T17:51:16Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > There’s also Black Friday… You mean the American shopping riot that happens the day after Thanksgiving? [That’s not meant as a positive usage:](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Friday_(shopping)) > [@Wikipedia](#): > > The earliest evidence of the phrase _Black Friday_ originated in [Philadelphia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphia), dating back to at least 1961, where it was used by police to describe the heavy pedestrian and vehicular traffic that would occur on the day after Thanksgiving. It was a reference to the tradition of calling a catastrophe that falls on a Friday “[Black Friday.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Friday)” ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2021, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/74 "2021-06-26T17:52:12Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > how many people in America would have ever even have thought of “picnic” as offensive? This is a fairly old urban myth, actually, that I’ve seen repeated for at least 25, 30 years. A popular version is that “picnic” comes from “pickaninny.” (It does not.) ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2021, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/75 "2021-06-26T18:04:28Z")
This “black” stuff is evidently ancient, and pre-dates the English language: > [@](#): > > an si quis atro dente me petiverit, > inultus ut flebo puer? " Do you think if a venomous tooth attacks me I’ll cry, un-avenged, like a child? " IOW the “black” tooth is malevolent, malicious, virulent ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2021, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/76 "2021-06-26T18:47:32Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > > > That one’s in a gray area. > > Reported for maligning us old folks. I’m one of you. I’m allowed to say it. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2021, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/77 "2021-06-26T20:18:24Z")
I’d only heard of it as a day (or week) when loads of companies have sales on. They’ve started holding it in the UK too in the last couple of years, and for all I know all around the world. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2021, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/78 "2021-06-26T23:36:06Z")
> [@mbh](#): > > Are academic institutions going to re-name the degree between “bachelor” and “doctor”? If they do, I’m sure Tucker Hannity will be primarybating about the potential for arglebargling about it. ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2021, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/79 "2021-06-27T00:54:45Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I’m sure Tucker Hannity will be primarybating about the potential ISWYDT ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2021, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016/80 "2021-06-27T02:43:09Z")
> [@mbh](#): > > Are academic institutions going to re-name the degree between “bachelor” and “doctor”? They could rename them first degree, second degree, and third degree. > **[Penn State to remove terms "sophomore" and "freshman" from course descriptions](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/penn-state-freshman-sophomore-course-descriptions/#app)** > > The change is an effort to move away from a "typically male-centered world." [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brandeis-university-considers-picnic-to-be-oppressive-language/945016.md?page=5)