Or with two “ees.”
This starts to become one of those linguistic debates. Yes if someone was considering a city as a geometric object by area then they would think that the city center has nothing to do with the function of the city, with where the trains and roads head into, where the shopping and or business center of masses are. They would think of that area near Madison and Western maybe as the city center.
Most of us don’t think about cities as geometric objects by area. You do apparently. But it is not correct either prescriptively or descriptively.
It was in the days of mighty sailing ships when the north of Spain was as exotic to most of the world as “the Orient” was to Americans.
Coincidentally, Barry Manilow also had written a song about “Brandy” but after the success of this song he changed the name of the girl to Mandy.
Also, I was born in Chicago and we lived on the South Side. Even the people east of Calumet said “South Side” not “East Side.”
So, the East side of (the central part of) Chicago would be downtown/the Loop? (Or Grant Park?)
Sorry for going on with this hijack. Call whatever parts of any location whatever you wish. Just don’t expect anyone else to clearly understand what you are talking about.
I loved that movie. In it, the" something" they were throwing off the bridge was the girl’s stuffed toy, ‘Benjamin’.
Back on topic, I always pictured it to take place in more or less contemporary times and since the only Western port I was familiar with at the time was San Pedro,CA., that’s where my mind’s eye went. Back then, SP felt kind of locked in the past, so it was pretty easy to picture Brandy walking around Ports o’ Call. Also, she was wearing a long skirt, peasant blouse, and a scarf on her head. The sailor’s name was engraved on the back of the locket.
Daddy was a cop protecting The Bean…
I don’t - and I don’t dispute that someone who knows Chicago would never refer to “the East side” . What I don’t understand is why the response to people who clearly don’t know Chicago is often "there is no east side " rather than “we don’t call it that” . Because there’s no reason to think that someone who doesn’t know the city even knows where the city center is.
Interestingly, when I went to look up which song referred to the east side of Chicago, I found this so it seems there is some disagreement even in Chicago.
Or ya coulda just read post 49 upthread…
Quite a while back I decided that it wasn’t my place to try to explain to folk who lived elsewhere than I, how THEY ought to refer to THEIR location.
The “sides” of a city are always relative to the center of the city, and for most cities on a coast, the center is usually very close to the coast. Therefore, such cities don’t, in fact, have a coastward “side”.
As to how one defines the “center” of a city, it’s difficult to give a general standard, but the inhabitants of any given city will usually be able to pin down a specific point. For Cleveland, for instance, it’s the center of Public Square, where Superior and Ontario intersect. Often, this point will be the origin of the city’s address coordinate system, though that’s an effect of it being the center, not the cause. I don’t know what the precise center of Chicago is, but I’m sure Chicagoans do, and it’s probably pretty close to Lake Michigan.
“Brandy,” the song on which “Mandy” was based, was written by Scott English and Richard Kerr. Recorded by English, it was a minor hit in the UK in 1971 and barely charted in the US. However, you’re correct that when Manilow recorded the song, the title and words were changed to “Mandy” to avoid confusion with the tune by the Looking Glass.
English had an especially grating voice and I remember hearing English’s version but didn’t like it at all. At least Manilow could sing! It’s one of his better recordings, actually, before he worked that overproduced sound to death, over and over again.
English supposedly hated the Manilow version but warmed up to it when he began getting the royalty checks. He probably lived quite comfortably for years off that song, thanks to Mr. Manilow.
Hmm. I feel like there’s not a unique “center” to either Boston or New York. I mean, New York has central Park. But there’s a sense in which downtown is the center, too.
Pittsburgh has a Southside, a North Side, an East End and West End. If you want to have an enjoyable day, check out the Southside.
Going thru the (supposed) lyrics some things I find curious.
“But he made it clear he couldn’t stay
The harbor was his home”
What? He can’t stay at his home? That can’t be right. Checking around there is “No harbor was his home.”
Great, just great. Thanks Google. So going with Genius but still wary.
“She could feel the ocean fall and rise, she saw its raging glory”
So, on an ocean, with tides. And an area with apparently notable storms. Upper US Pacific coasts fits. Lakes, the Mediterranean, etc. don’t.
By the 70s containerization was already a major thing. This changed the way ports worked and what the areas around many ports were like. This song just doesn’t seem to fit the container era.
So 1950s or earlier. How much earlier? Probably many decades. While “Brandy” wasn’t a common woman’s name in the early 1900s or before, it was a name. The Wikipedia article on the name also mentions it’s historic use as a pet name, e.g., for “Brenda”.
Good grief, I’m from Chicago and I have no problem with people using the directional term to describe the relative position of a location, regardless of whether there’s a neighborhood called that or not.
I don’t believe the evocative lyrics “wears a braided chain made of finest silver from the north of Spain, a locket that bears the name of the man that Brandy loved” would have been put there if they weren’t intended to refer to an earlier time.
The fact that he used the modern name Brandy was already explained as being because he was writing about a real girl named Randi, so he chose a name that was close.
They might if they’re from France, Spain, Italy, Malta, Greece, Slovakia…
Anyway, “whiskey and wine” sounds better than “whiskey and beer” or “whiskey and rum” just because they both start with “w.”
It also implies that Brandy works at a place slightly upscale from your average dockside dive, and she’s a “good girl” rather than a harbor tramp.
Good grief that has nothing to do with what is being discussed, silly hijack that it may be: the phrase “the east side of Chicago” as a location. Of course we talk about going east til your hat floats and the lake is always east, so on. We are more clearly laid on the grid than many other cities. Use of direction relative to somewhere else immaterial.
When I was listening to the radio in the 70’s Brandi was a contemporary barmaid who served the sailors whiskey and rye. Maybe from Maine or Mass. she was prettier than average but restrained by a strict Catholic upbringing.
She’s still at the bar owns it now and still wears her silver locket.
In the eras before water was safe to drink many people drank wine with their meals.
I can visualize sailors having a bit of wine with a meal then ordering whiskeys for the evening.
How does that refer to an earlier time, though? Spain is still around, it still has a north coast, and you can still buy jewelry there. And going to Europe and buying some tatty necklace to impress a girl back home is still a common practice. If anything, it seems to peg it to a more modern era, since back in the 17th/18th centuries, “silver from Spain” was an actual luxury, that I’d assume would be beyond the purchasing power of most sailors.
The fact that he wrote the song about a woman he actually knew seems to rule out the 17th/18th centuries as settings for this song. And, anyway, “Randi” doesn’t sound any less modern to my ear than “Brandy”.