# Brasil 2014 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [May 6, 2014, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840 "2014-05-06T21:19:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 108
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2014, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/2141 "2014-06-29T19:35:30Z")
> [@mcgato](#): > > Mexico should have known that every time Robben got in the box, he was going to look for a penalty. I could tell the instant that he got in the box, he was not looking to pass the ball. Just looking for a penalty. I don’t think that it was a legit penalty, but if you stick your leg near him he will go down. And if the leg is near enough to him, and/or makes minor contact, it probably will be called a penalty. Lots of times when he’s in the box he’s there to score you know, he does do that on occasion. ---
**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2014, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/2142 "2014-06-29T19:44:45Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > It is a dive if you dive to embellish it when you do get fouled. May be it should be, but there’s actually no rule against embellishment, only simulation (i.e. pretending to be fouled when you’re not). I understand Mexico’s complaint as Robben probably could’ve stayed on his feet and in which case the foul would’ve less likely to be given, but the referee’s decision was entirely the correct decision by the laws of the game. Marquez went for the tackle in the box, but made contact with the player before the ball, which is a penalty by the laws of the game. Robben’s embellishment, again by the laws of the game, isn’t something he could be penalized for either. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2014, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/2143 "2014-06-29T19:46:36Z")
The important thing is that Marquez has nobody to blame except himself. There were three (four?) Mexican defenders cordoning Robben off; he was’t going anywhere. The challenge was unnecessary. A guy with his experience should know better. There wasn’t much contact, but there was enough. As somebody said above, it wouldn’t have been a horrible call if no foul was given, but it was a perfectly valid call when it was. ---
**Author:** ![borschevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@borschevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/borschevsky)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2014, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/2144 "2014-06-29T19:58:19Z")
It’s one of those examples we were talking about in one of the other World Cup threads. It’s a foul, but getting a penalty for it seems very disproportionate. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2014, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/2145 "2014-06-29T20:04:39Z")
A foul given against the defending side in the penalty box is always a penalty kick. That’s the rule. ---
**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2014, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/2146 "2014-06-29T20:06:43Z")
> [@borschevsky](#): > > It’s one of those examples we were talking about in one of the other World Cup threads. It’s a foul, but getting a penalty for it seems very disproportionate. But this is also why players make sure they go down for fouls like that in the box - it forces the referee to make a decision. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2014, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/2147 "2014-06-29T20:10:17Z")
> [@Svejk\_1](#): > > Lots of times when he’s in the box he’s there to score you know, he does do that on occasion. His diving is infamous and everyone knows it. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2014, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/2148 "2014-06-29T20:13:18Z")
> [@Martian Bigfoot](#): > > [Robben apologizes for diving against Mexico.](http://www.goal.com/en-ie/news/3933/world-cup-2014/2014/06/29/4924039/robben-apologises-for-diving-against-mexico) Robben is a cheating, diving fuck. He’s been a cheating, diving fuck for his whole career, and i don’t expect anything to change. He made one blatant dive today, and even on the occasion where he was actually fouled, he still managed to put an extra effort in to make the fall as dramatic as possible. BUT… As long as referees remain unwilling to award penalties for obvious contact in cases where the player remains on his feet, players are going to continue to go down in the box even when they could have stayed up. This is the case not just in the World Cup, but in domestic competitions like the English Premier League. I’ve seen cases of fouls in the penalty area where the attacker is clearly impeded or tripped, but makes a valiant effort to remain on his feet and continue after the ball, and no penalty is awarded. If that’s what happens, then you can’t really blame these guys for going down on contact. Part of the problem, it seems to me, is the way that advantage is played in soccer. Once the referee gives the advantage signal after a foul, that seems to be it. Even in cases where the team that was fouled clearly get no actual advantage, they don’t get the option to come back for a free kick. In rugby (both codes—league and union) the referee is allowed to let play continue and then, if the run of play provides no advantage to the fouled team, he can bring it back and award the penalty for the original infraction. I would like to see this happen more in soccer. ---
**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2014, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/2149 "2014-06-29T20:21:35Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > In rugby (both codes—league and union) the referee is allowed to let play continue and then, if the run of play provides no advantage to the fouled team, he can bring it back and award the penalty for the original infraction. I would like to see this happen more in soccer. If there’s no advantage within about 5 seconds, the referee should bring back play for the foul. But for me in a situation like that, the advantage should never be played as if Robben had a massive amount of work to do to manufacture a chance that is as good as a penalty and if he were to shoot it can’t be brought back for the PK. ---
**Author:** ![borschevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@borschevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/borschevsky)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2014, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/2150 "2014-06-29T20:24:13Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > A foul given against the defending side in the penalty box is always a penalty kick. That’s the rule. Right. I don’t like that this is the rule. ---
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2014, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/2151 "2014-06-29T20:24:49Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > His diving is infamous and everyone knows it. Meh. Seriously, meh to you and your condescending shtick. Yes, he’s dived, and now every time he’s involved in any kerfuffle, people remember that, regardless of what actually happens. Because, you know, fuck the facts, when we can have opinions. But in the box, he’s one of the most dangerous players in this tournament, and he needs next to nothing to score. So obviously that is going to invite a lot of challenges, and it’s just up to defenders to be cautious. If he was not actually in the box to score, if he was not so dangerous, and if he was only there to dive, as **mcgato** asserts, he would not actually invite so many challenges. As was said upthread, the Mexicans have no one to blame but themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Isosleepy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/isosleepy/32/479_2.png) [@Isosleepy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isosleepy)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2014, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/2152 "2014-06-29T20:27:03Z")
So against Australia, v. gaal started 5-3-2, and after a while, when that wasn’t working, switched to 4-3-3. Brilliant. Against Chile, starting 5-3-2, eventually 4-3-3 ( effectively if not formally) and get 2 goals. Great. Now against Mexico, start with 5-3-2 (arguably 3-5-2) before, eventually, switching to (no shit) 4-3-3 and turning the game around (again). So, short of viewing coming from behind as some sort of character building exercise for the team, why not _start_ 4-3-3? ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2014, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/2153 "2014-06-29T20:28:54Z")
> [@Isosleepy](#): > > So against Australia, v. gaal started 5-3-2, and after a while, when that wasn’t working, switched to 4-3-3. Brilliant. > Against Chile, starting 5-3-2, eventually 4-3-3 ( effectively if not formally) and get 2 goals. Great. > Now against Mexico, start with 5-3-2 (arguably 3-5-2) before, eventually, switching to (no shit) 4-3-3 and turning the game around (again). > > So, short of viewing coming from behind as some sort of character building exercise for the team, why not _start_ 4-3-3? I think it’s because van Gaal is a stubborn dick. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2014, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/2154 "2014-06-29T20:30:06Z")
So no comments about the current game? ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2014, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/2155 "2014-06-29T20:33:52Z")
> [@KarlGrenze](#): > > So no comments about the current game? It’s too boring so far. ---
**Author:** ![Isosleepy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/isosleepy/32/479_2.png) [@Isosleepy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isosleepy)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2014, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/2156 "2014-06-29T20:34:56Z")
I think I saw a Greek trying to score. It was from 40 yards, but… Be still my beating heart. How’s that? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2014, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/2157 "2014-06-29T20:38:48Z")
Nice cross, and a really good save by the Costa Rican keeper. ---
**Author:** ![Laggard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de053/32.png) [@Laggard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laggard)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2014, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/2158 "2014-06-29T20:49:20Z")
Did I just hear booing at the first half ending whistle? ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2014, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/2159 "2014-06-29T20:54:40Z")
> [@borschevsky](#): > > Right. I don’t like that this is the rule. The alternative is to ignore the foul (most common) or set up some kind of bizarrely cramped and unsafe set piece with everyone jammed inside the box. The penalty rule is a good rule and if anything should be enforced more, especially in being given not just when a player goes down. Also offensive diving yellow cards should be given a lot more. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2014, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/2160 "2014-06-29T20:55:55Z")
I’m a relative soccer ignoramus, so if someone could enlighten me, I’d appreciate it. On ESPN’s coverage, every so often there will be a (1) in red to the right of the score. It’s there for a bit and disappears. What’s up with that? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840.md?page=107) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840.md?page=109)