# Brasil 2014 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [May 6, 2014, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840 "2014-05-06T21:19:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 43
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/841 "2014-06-18T10:15:33Z")
Here are the possible point distributions for four-team groups: 9 6 3 0 9 6 1 1 9 4 4 0 9 4 3 1 9 4 2 1 9 3 3 3 9 2 2 2 7 7 3 0 7 7 1 1 7 6 4 0 7 6 3 1 7 6 2 1 7 5 4 0 7 5 3 1 7 5 2 1 7 4 4 1 7 4 3 3 7 4 3 2 7 4 3 1 7 4 2 2 7 3 2 2 6 6 6 0 6 6 4 1 6 6 3 3 6 5 4 1 6 5 2 2 6 4 4 3 6 4 4 2 5 5 5 0 5 5 4 1 5 5 3 2 5 5 3 1 5 5 2 2 5 4 4 3 5 4 4 2 5 4 3 2 5 3 3 2 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 3 3 3 3 Some of these are no longer possible in this tournament, e.g. 3 3 3 3, which requires all games in a group to be drawn. It is possible to qualify from a group with only two points, if one team wins all its games and the other three games are drawn, which could still happen in Argentina’s and Belgium’s groups. There are also a few ways to qualify with only three points. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Dead\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Cat)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/842 "2014-06-18T10:51:39Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > A surprising number aren’t. Manchester United isn’t; they were Leyton Heath, and then they were saved from receivership and the new owners just decided to change the name. Nitpick: Newton Heath. > [@Ximenean](#): > > Here are the possible point distributions for four-team groups: [snip] Nice one, very interesting. In particular, it seems surprising that it is possible to not qualify on 5 or even 6 points, but both of these only have one possible permutation. You can’t even say that two wins guarantees qualification, as the 6 6 6 0 permutation involves everyone beating one team, with the other three teams all beating each other. I’m pretty sure that neither the 5 5 5 0 nor the 6 6 6 0 scenarios have ever occurred in World Cups (or Euros), so historically 5 points have always been enough. ---
**Author:** ![polar\_bear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ec9cab/32.png) [@polar\_bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/polar_bear)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/843 "2014-06-18T12:56:20Z")
> [@Dead\_Cat](#): > > Nitpick: Newton Heath. > > Nice one, very interesting. In particular, it seems surprising that it is possible to not qualify on 5 or even 6 points, but both of these only have one possible permutation. You can’t even say that two wins guarantees qualification, as the 6 6 6 0 permutation involves everyone beating one team, with the other three teams all beating each other. I’m pretty sure that neither the 5 5 5 0 nor the 6 6 6 0 scenarios have ever occurred in World Cups (or Euros), so historically 5 points have always been enough. Group D in the 1994 World cup: Where Argentina won their first two games, but ended 3rd in the group behind Nigeria and Bulgaria. No points for Greece (might well be the same this year). Group F in the same world cup: Netherlands and Saudi Arabia progress; Belgium doesn’t with the same number of points and Morocco got nothin. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/844 "2014-06-18T13:37:00Z")
> [@polar\_bear](#): > > Group D in the 1994 World cup: > > Where Argentina won their first two games, but ended 3rd in the group behind Nigeria and Bulgaria. No points for Greece (might well be the same this year). And Group E in the same World Cup had everyone finishing on 4 points. > **[1994 FIFA World Cup](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_FIFA_World_Cup#Group_E)** > > The 1994 FIFA World Cup was the 15th FIFA World Cup, the world championship for men's national soccer teams. It was hosted by the United States and took place from June 17 to July 17, 1994, at nine venues across the country. The United States was chosen as the host by FIFA on July 4, 1988. Despite soccer's relative lack of popularity in the host nation, the tournament was the most financially successful in World Cup history. It broke tournament records with overall attendance of 3,587,53 Brazi... > [@](#): > > Group E remains the only group in World Cup history in which all four teams finished with the same points. > … > That result meant that Mexico won the group on goals scored with Ireland and Italy also progressing having finished with identical records (Ireland finishing second on account of the fact that they had beaten Italy when the teams played one another). Norway’s shortcomings in attack had ultimately let them down. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/845 "2014-06-18T13:42:34Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > So the first round of games is now in the books… what are people’s votes for highs and lows? With you on Nigeria/Iran. There were two microseconds of action interspersed among 95 minutes of snooze. I really hope that wasn’t the first match any casual fan watched, or they’ll probably never watch again. I actually think Mexico/Brazil was the best game of the tournament so far. The antithesis of the other nil-nil draw. I like Ghana’s goal against the US for goal of the tournament-so-far. Van Persie’s goal was spectacular but I marked it down a little for degree of difficulty; he was completely unmarked and it looked a bit harder than it really was (if you watch carefully you’ll see he doesn’t leave his feet until _after_ he heads the ball.) ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/846 "2014-06-18T13:48:19Z")
> [@Isosleepy](#): > > If the U.S make it out of the group, they can beat this Russia. If they are playing _this_ Russia. Not the Russia that beat Portugal in qualifying. The US and Russia are both most likely to advance as second place teams. The US’s most likely second round opponent is Belgium, which is a dicier prospect. Although not quite as bad as Russia likely getting Germany. ---
**Author:** ![Ambihelical\_Hexnut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4491bb/32.png) [@Ambihelical\_Hexnut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambihelical_Hexnut)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/847 "2014-06-18T14:44:47Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > Here are the possible point distributions for four-team groups: > > 9 6 3 0 > 9 6 1 1 > 9 4 4 0 > 9 4 3 1 > 9 4 2 1 > 9 3 3 3 > 9 2 2 2 > 7 7 3 0 > 7 7 1 1 > 7 6 4 0 > 7 6 3 1 > 7 6 2 1 > 7 5 4 0 > 7 5 3 1 > 7 5 2 1 > 7 4 4 1 > 7 4 3 3 > 7 4 3 2 > 7 4 3 1 > 7 4 2 2 > 7 3 2 2 > 6 6 6 0 > 6 6 4 1 > 6 6 3 3 > 6 5 4 1 > 6 5 2 2 > 6 4 4 3 > 6 4 4 2 > 5 5 5 0 > 5 5 4 1 > 5 5 3 2 > 5 5 3 1 > 5 5 2 2 > 5 4 4 3 > 5 4 4 2 > 5 4 3 2 > 5 3 3 2 > 4 4 4 4 > 4 4 4 3 > 3 3 3 3 > > Some of these are no longer possible in this tournament, e.g. 3 3 3 3, which requires all games in a group to be drawn. > It is possible to qualify from a group with only two points, if one team wins all its games and the other three games are drawn, which could still happen in Argentina’s and Belgium’s groups. > There are also a few ways to qualify with only three points. Here is a list of the number of times each combination of points has actually occurred, since 1994 (when international football introduced 3 points for a win), and taking into account both men’s and women’s versions of the following tournaments: - World Cups - European Championships - Olympic Games ```auto 9630 - 14 times 7540 - 12 9611 - 10 9440 - 6 9421 - 6 7730 - 6 7640 - 6 6443 - 6 5541 - 6 7441 - 5 9431 - 4 7531 - 4 7521 - 4 6660 - 4 6633 - 4 7631 - 3 7433 - 3 7621 - 2 6641 - 2 6541 - 2 6442 - 2 5443 - 2 7422 - 1 7322 - 1 5550 - 1 5532 - 1 5531 - 1 5432 - 1 4444 - 1 ``` ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/848 "2014-06-18T15:00:16Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > Here are the possible point distributions for four-team groups: > > 9 6 3 0 > 9 6 1 1 > 9 4 4 0 > 9 4 3 1 > 9 4 2 … You can tell I’m male because I find this A) Dull B) Interesting & Important at the same time. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/849 "2014-06-18T15:11:28Z")
All three matches tonight are going to be awesome as I have a work thing (minigolf!) and hence will be away from the TV. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/850 "2014-06-18T15:15:44Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > You can tell I’m male because I find this > > A) Dull > B) Interesting & Important > > at the same time. Same with me. I spent significant time already this morning studying this list. ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/851 "2014-06-18T15:44:21Z")
The discussion about various group permutations brings me to something I was wondering about the other day. Back in Euro 2004, the joke was that the Greeks were trying to become the first team to win a major international tournament without scoring a goal. Just a joke, of course, but it got me to wondering if such a feat is even possible, excluding goals scored in penalty shoot outs. So the scenario I came up with was that in the group stage, all the games end in 0-0 draws. That leaves the four teams level on three points, same GD, same goals for and against, and the same head-to-head record. Lots are drawn. Our hypothetical team advances to the knockout stages, where every game ends 0-0 after 120 minutes and they advance via PKs, eventually winning the final in that manner. Any flaws in this? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/852 "2014-06-18T15:48:05Z")
Other than the implausibility of any team which plays 120 minutes in every knockout round having the energy to keep nine clean sheets? No. It’s theoretically possible. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/853 "2014-06-18T16:22:12Z")
What a match thus far. Two goals in 2 minutes. What a cup. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/854 "2014-06-18T16:22:18Z")
Look Australia, when you go behind to a far superior team you’re supposed to collapse, OK? (although they’ve started much better in this game) ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/855 "2014-06-18T16:23:06Z")
Two nice goals in less than a minute. Come on Aussies! ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/856 "2014-06-18T16:25:11Z")
Two of the best goals in this world cup within 90 seconds, that’s value for you! Is it just me or is Cahill’s goal more aesthetically pleasing because it hammers down and up off the bar? ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/857 "2014-06-18T16:27:04Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Two of the best goals in this world cup within 90 seconds, that’s value for you! > > Is it just me or is Cahill’s goal more aesthetically pleasing because it hammers down and up off the bar? I agree. Also because it was more unexpected–when it’s 3 on 1 you expect a team to be able to knock it in barring a spectacular save. ---
**Author:** ![Isosleepy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/isosleepy/32/479_2.png) [@Isosleepy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isosleepy)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/858 "2014-06-18T16:32:12Z")
Cahill’s first goal in this game is easily top 3 goal so far. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/859 "2014-06-18T16:43:50Z")
Someone apparently forgot to tell Australia that they’re hopelessly outmatched here. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/860 "2014-06-18T16:47:42Z")
Well, crap. Cahill is out against Spain. I need some rooting interests and us former colonies got to stick together. A stupid foul and probably worth a card, yes, but it couldn’t have hurt that much, could it? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840.md?page=42) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840.md?page=44)