# Brasil 2014 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [May 6, 2014, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840 "2014-05-06T21:19:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 82
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2014, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/1621 "2014-06-25T21:40:08Z")
> [@txtumbleweed](#): > > With Switzerland now up by three, is there any chance left for Ecuador, even if they win? Doesn’t SUI now own the goal differential tiebreaker? If the Swiss win 3-0, and Ecuador manage a goal and beat France 1-0, their goal differences will be the same (+1 for each team). The Swiss would go through based on the next criterion, which is goals scored. So to get through now, Ecuador needs to score 2, if i’ve calculated correctly. ---
**Author:** ![straight\_man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/straight_man/32/3027_2.png) [@straight\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/straight_man)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2014, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/1622 "2014-06-25T21:41:37Z")
> [@txtumbleweed](#): > > With Switzerland now up by three, is there any chance left for Ecuador, even if they win? Doesn’t SUI now own the goal differential tiebreaker? They need two goals, rather than one. (One of those two goals could be by Honduras, though, so it’s not completely impossible.) ---
**Author:** ![polar\_bear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ec9cab/32.png) [@polar\_bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/polar_bear)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2014, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/1623 "2014-06-25T21:42:25Z")
Ok, so Ecuador need two now… For all the impressive performances the South American teams have showed, they’ll not be able to have it all their way in the knock out phase. At least one semi finalist, which will come from the group of Brazil, Chile, Uruguay and Colombia… and for the rest just Argentina, which could go far as well (Switzerland and after that Belgium/US/Ghana/Portugal and in the semis Holland/Mexico/Costa Rica/Greece). There might still be some Latin American dominance with the likes of Mexico and Costa Rica in a good draw. On the other hand it could become very European with Holland, Belgium, France and Germany doing well. Both the low countries have a good World Cup record in Latin America with Holland reaching the final in 78 (losing to the hosts) and Belgium getting to the semis in 86 (Mexico); their best ever tournament. ---
**Author:** ![Isosleepy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/isosleepy/32/479_2.png) [@Isosleepy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isosleepy)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2014, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/1624 "2014-06-25T22:02:10Z")
France looked really good until they were kept score-less by 10 Ecuadorians. Wonder how they will fare against 11 Nigerians. I still think they’ll beat them, but nowhere near as sure as I was 3 hours ago. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2014, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/1625 "2014-06-25T22:03:39Z")
> [@Isosleepy](#): > > France looked really good until they were kept score-less by 10 Ecuadorians. Wonder how they will fare against 11 Nigerians. I still think they’ll beat them, but nowhere near as sure as I was 3 hours ago. They didn’t look great, but they did sit about six of their starters in this match. I wouldn’t worry too much about them, i don’t think. ---
**Author:** ![Isosleepy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/isosleepy/32/479_2.png) [@Isosleepy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isosleepy)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2014, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/1626 "2014-06-25T22:11:40Z")
So, if you’re Germany: if you win tomorrow, you run into France and Brazil before the final. If you lose, Argentina and Holland-or-Mexico. At that point, do you really care? ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2014, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/1627 "2014-06-25T22:18:17Z")
> [@Isosleepy](#): > > So, if you’re Germany: if you win tomorrow, you run into France and Brazil before the final. If you lose, Argentina and Holland-or-Mexico. At that point, do you really care? You always play to win. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2014, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/1628 "2014-06-25T22:37:28Z")
I think the Americans are going to _make_ Germany win. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2014, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/1629 "2014-06-25T22:38:45Z")
Awesome: > [@](#): > > However, despite compelling evidence to the contrary, most of Uruguay seems to be playing down the incident. Virtually none of Uruguay’s newspapers made mention of the bite in their reports and a major broadcaster claimed it was all a conspiracy against the maligned player, while teammate Diego Lugano condemned Chiellini as a “cry baby.” > > Now, the Uruguayan football association has jumped on the denial bandwagon, claiming that images of bite marks in Chielinni’s shoulder from the game were digitally manipulated. > > Football Italia reports: > > Despite video evidence and photographs showing a clear bite mark on Chiellini’s shoulder, the Uruguayan FA are preparing an interesting approach to their defence. > Their lawyers will maintain the images of bite marks were ‘photoshopped’ to make the incident look more serious than it was. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2014, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/1630 "2014-06-25T22:49:21Z")
> [@lisiate](#): > > **Green Bean** , Suarez wasn’t red carded at the time so surely art 48 doesn’t apply? The suspensions listed only apply to “any recipient of a direct red card”. Article 48 definitely applies, as I explained in my post. Part 3 of Article 48 specifies that “The right is reserved to punish an infringement in accordance with art. 77 a).” From Article 77: “The Disciplinary Committee is responsible for: a) sanctioning serious infringements which have escaped the match officials’ attention;” Article 96 lays out the types of evidence that can be used in evaluating an incident. “The following are, in particular, admissible: reports from referees, assistant referees, match commissioners and referee inspectors, declarations from the parties and witnesses, material evidence, expert opinions and audio or video recordings.” In other words, if the ref didn’t see it, we can still punish it later. The FIFA page I linked to explains the charges. ---
**Author:** ![nani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/58956e/32.png) [@nani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nani)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2014, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/1631 "2014-06-25T23:00:10Z")
> [@Isosleepy](#): > > So, if you’re Germany: if you win tomorrow, you run into France and Brazil before the final. If you lose, Argentina and Holland-or-Mexico. At that point, do you really care? If Ghana racks up 3 or 4 against a dispirited Portugal, they will definitely care. I don’t see any reason why Germany wouldn’t give a full effort tomorrow. If they _are_ dumb enough to hold back and play for a draw, I hope the US makes them pay for it. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2014, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/1632 "2014-06-25T23:14:51Z")
> [@nani](#): > > If Ghana racks up 3 or 4 against a dispirited Portugal, they will definitely care. I don’t see any reason why Germany wouldn’t give a full effort tomorrow. If they _are_ dumb enough to hold back and play for a draw, I hope the US makes them pay for it. I think it very unlikely that the US can beat Germany if both sides are really trying. What I’m hoping for is something where one side scores early. The other side counterattacks furiously, eventually ties it up, and THEN both sides kind of chill out, having proven to the world that they really did care and weren’t just kicking it around for a draw. I am worried, however, that Portugal will just not show up at all, so it might be easy for Ghana to be up a LOT. We would be in INFINITELY better shape right now if Ghana had just lost to Germany the way the were supposed to. Although of course their result does show that Germany isn’t untouchable. So that’s a good thing. Ack! Too much stress! ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2014, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/1633 "2014-06-25T23:37:34Z")
> [@Green\_Bean](#): > > Article 48 definitely applies, as I explained in my post. > > Part 3 of Article 48 specifies that “The right is reserved to punish an infringement in accordance with art. 77 a).” > > From Article 77: “The Disciplinary Committee is responsible for: a) sanctioning serious infringements which have escaped the match officials’ attention;” > > Article 96 lays out the types of evidence that can be used in evaluating an incident. “The following are, in particular, admissible: reports from referees, assistant referees, match commissioners and referee inspectors, declarations from the parties and witnesses, material evidence, expert opinions and audio or video recordings.” > > In other words, if the ref didn’t see it, we can still punish it later. > > The FIFA page I linked to explains the charges. All good, I hadn’t noticed subs 3. Colombia will have to be heavy favourites over a Suarez-less Uruguay then. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2014, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/1634 "2014-06-25T23:51:20Z")
> [@lisiate](#): > > Colombia will have to be heavy favourites over a Suarez-less Uruguay then. I think so. I think Colombia have overall better team play and tactics than Uruguay, if they’re lacking Suarez the Biter. ---
**Author:** ![Dumbguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Dumbguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dumbguy)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/1635 "2014-06-26T00:16:01Z")
Charges against Suarez will be reviewed by Evander Holyfield. ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/1636 "2014-06-26T00:17:11Z")
I’m totally lost on the red card for the Ecuadorian captain. Can someone explain? From the replay it looks to me like he had the ball, the French player did a risky slide tackle UNDER the Ecuadorian guys foot, which, naturally, and what appears to me as something he couldn’t possibly help, ends up scraping up the French player’s leg. The only way the Ecuadorian guy could have avoided this is if he could, somehow, magicly perhaps, suspend the laws of physics and levitate. Once that leg is under his foot, and given his momentum, what happened was GOING to happen. I was convinced the French player would get a card. When the Ecuadorian guy got expelled I was all like, what the f??? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/1637 "2014-06-26T01:00:09Z")
I just watched the red card incident. What a bunch of shin guard wearing Oscar nominee pansies. This was a normal slide tackle and unless the other player is capable of defying the laws of physics it was normal contact. I’d file the red card under game fixing. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/1638 "2014-06-26T01:17:35Z")
Why is it, do you suppose, that none of the Ecuadorans protested the red card? We’ve explained what happened earlier in the thread. I can buy that it wasn’t intentional, but it was reckless and, most importantly, clearly against the rules. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/1639 "2014-06-26T01:28:19Z")
[Here’s a video](http://www.espnfc.com/video/latest-videos/600/video/1912988?&ex_cid=espnapi_affiliate_Google_World_Cup_Video) of highlights which include the red card. At 34" in the video, Valencia has the ball, and kicks it forward. Digne slides to knock the ball out of bounds, and gets there _before_ Valencia. Valencia then blasts into Digne, right foot _studs up_ straight into Digne’s leg, raking over his knee and shins. This is quite clear at 45" in the video. Automatic red card. No one from Ecuador protests, because everyone knew what it would be. It was all really rather straightforward. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/1640 "2014-06-26T01:31:41Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > Why is it, do you suppose, that none of the Ecuadorans protested the red card? Not only that, but even the Ecuadorian manager didn’t protest about it after the game. Furthermore, i’ve just looked up a bunch of stories about the game, and none of them call it a bad decision. The most that some writers will concede is the same thing that i’ve already conceded in this thread—that the foul might not have been intentional, but it was still a dangerous tackle. For example, the writer for the [UK Guardian](http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/jun/25/ecuador-france-world-cup-2014-group-e-match-report) said: > [@](#): > > Their hopes of pulling off that victory seemed to have gone when Valencia was sent off for clattering into the France left-back Lucas Digne. He made no protest about the decision and there was a slight jump into the challenge, but there was perhaps an element of misfortune as his studs skidded over the ball and into the base of Digne’s knee. Just about everyone else had no complaints at all. The folks at [Bleacher Report](http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2109904-twitter-reacts-to-antonio-valencias-red-card-vs-france-in-2014-world-cup) referred to it as a “brutal studs-up tackle,” and an “awful challenge,” adding: > [@](#): > > While there have been some controversial decisions from the referees during this World Cup, there was no real debate to this one. It was a horrid, dangerous tackle, and not even Valencia bothered complaining. The match report at [NBC Sports](http://prosoccertalk.nbcsports.com/2014/06/25/france-wins-group-e-after-goalless-draw-with-ecuador/) said that: > [@](#): > > Antonio Valencia was shown a straight red card for a daft second-half challenge. The [UK’s Mirror](http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/world-cup-2014/ecuador-0-0-france-match-report-3653368) noted that France’s trip to the next round was made: > [@](#): > > Even easier, admittedly, after Antonio Valencia’s rightful red card for a horror, uncontrolled, over the top assault on Lucas Digne’s shin soon after the break. > > The Manchester United winger, Ecuador’s captain, could have no complaints. It ended his side’s hopes stone-dead. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840.md?page=81) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840.md?page=83)