# Brasil 2014 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [May 6, 2014, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840 "2014-05-06T21:19:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 84
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 9:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/1661 "2014-06-26T09:29:57Z")
> [@sideshowkar](#): > > I thought I had just hyper-extended it or maybe there was something up with the tendons. Dr. comes in after the x-rays - "Yeah, it’s broken. Me - “Seriously?” Dr. - “Oh, yeah. It’s in tiny little pieces.” > > The explosion I felt was my radius shattering. ouchy! I was lucky in that it was a perfectly clean break and healed nicely. I’m also fortunate that in nearly 30 years (:eek: how has it been 30 years) of adult football it has been my only bone breakage. So I guess I must not break easily but even so it was simple stopped shot that did the damage. It is all physics. Consider that a football weighs about half a kilo and a competent male amatuer can get it travelling at over 70mph…well… do the math(s). (by which I really do mean _you_ do the maths…f=m\*a) It is not an insignificant force. Incidentally it is well recorded that Newton himself was a keen footballer and played for the Cambridge Natural Philosophers 2nd X1. His original famous quote was supposed to be “If I have got a clear header in on goal it is through standing on the shoulders of Giants” but time has garbled the message. A famously tetchy individual, his dispute with Hooke stems from a high tackle during a cup game, and he hated Leibniz because the tricky German Winger “nutmegged” Isaac and called him a “wiggy nonce” in the play–off finals. He never forgave him. True story…by which I mean complete fabrication. (Sorry…I’ve had too much coffee this morning and there is no football happening.) ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Dead\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Cat)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/1662 "2014-06-26T11:51:56Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > Strange that they don’t have another level of tie-breaking to avoid this situation, such as fair-play rankings or FIFA rankings. I seem to remember them coming worryingly close to it several times before. One of these days the football authorities are going to be embarrassed by having to eliminate a team by drawing lots. Bit late in responding to this, but I think the argument is that of course you can have as many tiebreakers as you like (fair play would be a good one, I agree, if based on number of yellow/red cards in the competition - you could also have corners, fouls, whatever) but ultimately you will never totally eliminate the possibility of a dead heat all the way down. So drawing lots has to be your ultimate tiebreaker, it then becomes a question of degree in terms of how many other tiebreakers you have. I mean, you could conceivably say that the 2 teams with the most wins in the group qualify, if there is a tie you draw lots. This would produce a lot of lot drawing. Simple improvement is the points system so that draws get a point, wins get three. This still produces a lot of ties, so we have goal difference, then goals scored. All of these measures clearly relate to the fundamentals of a game of football. But beyond that, it’s less clear - corners, for example, can be a bit random and are not always a reliable indicator of success or good football. Fouls/cards can be skewed by poor (or corrupt) refereeing. Imagine the controversy if two teams were level in all respects late in their final group game, only for a player to dive and the opposition gets an undeserved yellow card that knocks them out. Personally, I feel they have got the balance about right with the current system, and the fact that drawing lots for a crucial position has not been needed at the finals thus far is testament to this. If it occurs in the future (and I agree it is very likely to sooner or later), well the teams concerned can hardly complain as they have both had 270 minutes of football to make a difference. Drawing lots becomes required if, and only if, the performance of two teams really is that closely matched that only randomness can separate them. Any other measures taken would likely be no less random than a coin toss. Finally, it’s useful for teams, coaches, and specatators to be able to (relatively) quickly and easily analyse their position going into (and during) the final game. A good deal of that ease would be lost if we introduced additional tiebreakers, even with the meticulous keeping of stats that is de rigeur nowadays. Well, I’ve convinced myself, if no-one else! ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/1663 "2014-06-26T12:04:47Z")
Boateng has been kicked off the Ghana squad for fighting and Sulley Muntari may be, too. This is a good thing for U.S. hopes. We need a wounded Portugal to draw or even win (by a little). ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/1664 "2014-06-26T12:19:43Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Just to clarify on this point. It is considered dangerous to leave the ground in this way as you then lose all ability to control what you are doing. Even if no harm comes from end tackle and you cleanly get the ball you can be penalised harshly for jumping in like this. That tackle by Valencia was one of the more innocuous types of this tackle I have seen. Still, its playing with fire even to attempt such a tackle these days. I would have little problem with either a yellow or red card in that situation. It was one of those marginal calls. I repeat though, he was a silly boy to risk such a tackle. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/1665 "2014-06-26T12:22:57Z")
In the old days, a karate chop to the balls would only merit a raised eye. But now, the slightest heavy touch is a booking. They need to pull it back. ---
**Author:** ![Speak\_to\_me\_Maddie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Speak\_to\_me\_Maddie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speak_to_me_Maddie)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/1666 "2014-06-26T12:55:42Z")
> [@Red\_Wiggler](#): > > Boateng has been kicked off the Ghana squad for fighting and Sulley Muntari may be, too. This is a good thing for U.S. hopes. We need a wounded Portugal to draw or even win (by a little). Wow. Ghana couldn’t avoid the drama. What a meltdown. What kind of game will they turn out today? Isn’t it possible still for Portugal to advance if they run up a score high enough? Crazy stuff. I love the drama, but feel sorry for Ghanians. ---
**Author:** ![kellner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c2a13f/32.png) [@kellner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kellner)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/1667 "2014-06-26T13:03:11Z")
> [@Dead\_Cat](#): > > I mean, you could conceivably say that the 2 teams with the most wins in the group qualify, if there is a tie you draw lots. This would produce a lot of lot drawing. Simple improvement is the points system so that draws get a point, wins get three. This still produces a lot of ties, so we have goal difference, then goals scored. All of these measures clearly relate to the fundamentals of a game of football. But beyond that, it’s less clear - corners, for example, can be a bit random and are not always a reliable indicator of success or good football. Fouls/cards can be skewed by poor (or corrupt) refereeing. Imagine the controversy if two teams were level in all respects late in their final group game, only for a player to dive and the opposition gets an undeserved yellow card that knocks them out. There is also a bit of fear that changes might influence the dynamics of the game. For example, even if corners correlate with dominance in a match reasonably well, - certainly better than a coin toss - under the current system their only real value is that they are goalscoring opportunities. It never makes sense to rack up corners for their own sake. Under certain circumstances that could change if corners were a tiebreaker. Because of this it’s a strongly held belief in large parts of the football world that only the number of goals may ever really count. I doubt that anything else as a fourth tiebreaker would cause serious problems, but I am not surprised that there isn’t one. The same line of argument also comes up occasionally in discussions of alternatives to penalty shoot-outs. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/1668 "2014-06-26T13:03:58Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > In the old days, a karate chop to the balls would only merit a raised eye. But now, the slightest heavy touch is a booking. They need to pull it back. Jumpers for goalposts. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/1669 "2014-06-26T13:09:07Z")
What happened to the guys in the wall on a free kick holding their balls? Now it looks like they cross their arms over their \*chests \*instead. Does no one kick a nad shot anymore? ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/1670 "2014-06-26T13:15:13Z")
> [@kellner](#): > > There is also a bit of fear that changes might influence the dynamics of the game. For example, even if corners correlate with dominance in a match reasonably well, - certainly better than a coin toss - under the current system their only real value is that they are goalscoring opportunities. It never makes sense to rack up corners for their own sake. Under certain circumstances that could change if corners were a tiebreaker. Because of this it’s a strongly held belief in large parts of the football world that only the number of goals may ever really count. > > I doubt that anything else as a fourth tiebreaker would cause serious problems, but I am not surprised that there isn’t one. > > The same line of argument also comes up occasionally in discussions of alternatives to penalty shoot-outs. I agree about the dynamics of the game. The worst rule change in recent decades was the golden and then silver goals. This imo comppletely ruined extra time in football games. Firstly, it made teams more defensive in extra time. Players and teams became scared to attack or make mistakes. Secondly, it ruined thewhole experience of extra time. A golden goal became a huge let down to the entire event. A team should be given every opportunity to fight back for a victory. It also became a psychological let down. One minute everyone in the stadium was on a high of nervous energy, next they were on a complete low. All at the whim of a piece of skill or good/bad luck. The good thing about penalties is how “clean” they are. They are easy to officiate and understand. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/1671 "2014-06-26T13:20:50Z")
> [@Speak\_to\_me\_Maddie](#): > > Wow. Ghana couldn’t avoid the drama. What a meltdown. What kind of game will they turn out today? Isn’t it possible still for Portugal to advance if they run up a score high enough? Crazy stuff. I love the drama, but feel sorry for Ghanians. Drama, like the president chartering a plane to bring the team $3,000,000 (in cash) to make sure they [play their next match](http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/soccer-dirty-tackle/ghana-s-president-has--3-million-delivered-to-world-cup-squad-after-boycott-threat-143849231.html)? ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/1672 "2014-06-26T13:23:32Z")
> [@Speak\_to\_me\_Maddie](#): > > Wow. Ghana couldn’t avoid the drama. What a meltdown. What kind of game will they turn out today? Isn’t it possible still for Portugal to advance if they run up a score high enough? Crazy stuff. I love the drama, but feel sorry for Ghanians. This is intriguing. Portugal know that only all-out balls-to-the-wall attacking and a metric shedload of goals will do for them. If Ghana are in a fragile state then this plays into their hands. Lets consider some possible scenarios. USA lose to Germany by a single goal. 1-0, Portugal then need to beat Ghana by four Clear goals. USA lose 2-0, Portugal need to win by 3 goals. etc. But that is because the USA will have scored less goals than Portugal (4 to either 6 or 5 in the two scenarios above. Where it gets interesting is if the USA lose by 2 goals but say the score is 3-1. Portugal are back to requiring a a four goal victory. Anyhoo, Portugal are going to have to attack and the USA can’t afford to sit back because Germany will be happy to pressure them all night long and they can’t risk inviting that. Playing for a draw can be a recipe for disaster. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/1673 "2014-06-26T13:40:26Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > This is intriguing. Portugal know that only all-out balls-to-the-wall attacking and a metric shedload of goals will do for them. If Ghana are in a fragile state then this plays into their hands. > > Lets consider some possible scenarios. > > USA lose to Germany by a single goal. 1-0, Portugal then need to beat Ghana by four Clear goals. > USA lose 2-0, Portugal need to win by 3 goals. etc. > > But that is because the USA will have scored less goals than Portugal (4 to either 6 or 5 in the two scenarios above. > > Where it gets interesting is if the USA lose by 2 goals but say the score is 3-1. Portugal are back to requiring a a four goal victory. > > Anyhoo, Portugal are going to have to attack and the USA can’t afford to sit back because Germany will be happy to pressure them all night long and they can’t risk inviting that. Playing for a draw can be a recipe for disaster. Thanks for this information. I was unsure of the goal situation going into these matches. Anyway, im looking forward to both these games. It should be interesting. Portugal will as usual rely a lot on Ronaldo. If Ronaldo isn’t playing well then Portugal will struggle to beat Ghana never mind by 4 goals or so. If Ronaldo is on form then anything is possible. Here’s hoping the US go through, I think they deserve to. It would certainly be a travesty if a god awful team like Greece were to go through but the US dont. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/1674 "2014-06-26T13:51:29Z")
I heard that it’s raining buckets in Recife today. Apparently there is fear that most of the spectators may not be able to make it on time, as the stadium is an hour outside of the city. Any insight on how this will affect the game itself? It’s a new stadium so you’d think that the drainage would be good. ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_T-Cups](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Sir\_T-Cups](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_T-Cups)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/1675 "2014-06-26T13:56:27Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > This is intriguing. Portugal know that only all-out balls-to-the-wall attacking and a metric shedload of goals will do for them. If Ghana are in a fragile state then this plays into their hands. > > Lets consider some possible scenarios. > > USA lose to Germany by a single goal. 1-0, Portugal then need to beat Ghana by four Clear goals. > USA lose 2-0, Portugal need to win by 3 goals. etc. > > But that is because the USA will have scored less goals than Portugal (4 to either 6 or 5 in the two scenarios above. > > Where it gets interesting is if the USA lose by 2 goals but say the score is 3-1. Portugal are back to requiring a a four goal victory. > > Anyhoo, Portugal are going to have to attack and the USA can’t afford to sit back because Germany will be happy to pressure them all night long and they can’t risk inviting that. Playing for a draw can be a recipe for disaster. > [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > Thanks for this information. I was unsure of the goal situation going into these matches. Anyway, im looking forward to both these games. It should be interesting. Portugal will as usual rely a lot on Ronaldo. If Ronaldo isn’t playing well then Portugal will struggle to beat Ghana never mind by 4 goals or so. If Ronaldo is on form then anything is possible. > > Here’s hoping the US go through, I think they deserve to. It would certainly be a travesty if a god awful team like Greece were to go through but the US dont. Doesn’t this really just translate to “don’t get shut out” for the US? I mean in order to keep ahead of Portugal, and even Ghana for that matter, we need to make sure that we are scoring so that even if we lose, we can win on Goal Diffs. The REAL scary scenario is if we get shut out Edit: “We” being the US since I’m a fan ---
**Author:** ![Laggard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de053/32.png) [@Laggard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laggard)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/1676 "2014-06-26T14:06:06Z")
The BBC is reporting that Suarez has been suspended for 9 matches. ---
**Author:** ![Cumbrian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce7236/32.png) [@Cumbrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cumbrian)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/1677 "2014-06-26T14:09:09Z")
> [@Laggard](#): > > The BBC is reporting that Suarez has been suspended for 9 matches. And to sometime in October for all football activity, which puts him out of a large chunk of Liverpool’s Champions League Group Stage campaign. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/1678 "2014-06-26T14:09:47Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > It’s a new stadium so you’d think that the drainage would be good. He’s here all week. Try the chicken. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/1679 "2014-06-26T14:10:25Z")
> [@Sir\_T-Cups](#): > > Doesn’t this really just translate to “don’t get shut out” for the US? I mean in order to keep ahead of Portugal, and even Ghana for that matter, we need to make sure that we are scoring so that even if we lose, we can win on Goal Diffs. The REAL scary scenario is if we get shut out > > Edit: “We” being the US since I’m a fan This is Germany you are up against. Admittedly not the greatest German side I have ever seen(also not the worst either). Still, never underestimate the German national teams ability to metaphorically kick any country in the balls football wise. They are nothing if not professional. I think the US are still favourites to go through. However, there are a lot of variables. But I wouldnt be at all surprised if it gets to edge of the seat time for a while. Then again, im a pessimistic guy in general when it comes to football. Its a result of years of being a Scotland supporter. ---
**Author:** ![Cumbrian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce7236/32.png) [@Cumbrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cumbrian)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/1680 "2014-06-26T14:18:12Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > This is Germany you are up against. Admittedly not the greatest German side I have ever seen(also not the worst either). Still, never underestimate the German national teams ability to metaphorically kick any country in the balls football wise. They are nothing if not professional. Agreed on this - but I am English so would. Nevertheless, on the flip side, scoring against this Germany team “should” be easier than in previous years. Their defence looks worse than I have seen it in this tournament for a number of years. Mertesacker is slow and has the turning circle of a battleship, Hummels doesn’t have the pace to bail him out if he gets it wrong and Howedes has had a pretty torrid tournament thus far too. Put some pressure on them and the US can score tonight. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840.md?page=83) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840.md?page=85)