# Brasil 2014 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [May 6, 2014, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840 "2014-05-06T21:19:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 85
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/1681 "2014-06-26T14:39:03Z")
> [@Cumbrian](#): > > And to sometime in October for all football activity, which puts him out of a large chunk of Liverpool’s Champions League Group Stage campaign. FIFA have been canny with this. It isn’t as long as many want but they’ll be able to point to the fact that in total he misses more matches than he did for the previous offences and also that they’ve extended the sanction to cover all footballing activity (in which case how will he finish his panini album?) and I don’t think they’ve done that before. I’m glad he misses the rest of the World Cup, he doesn’t deserve to get any glory from this at all. The really interesting thing will be…what do Liverpool do? Appeal to the CAS? how will that look. Do they cut him loose? I think so. They know this or something like it will happen again and they are better to consider a cut-price £50 million for him now (there are still mugs out there with no sense of propriety) then £30 million for a two-years older multi-repeat offender. ---
**Author:** ![Cumbrian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce7236/32.png) [@Cumbrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cumbrian)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/1682 "2014-06-26T14:49:15Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > The really interesting thing will be…what do Liverpool do? Appeal to the CAS? how will that look. > Do they cut him loose? I think so. They know this or something like it will happen again and they are better to consider a cut-price £50 million for him now (there are still mugs out there with no sense of propriety) then £30 million for a two-years older multi-repeat offender. Agree this is probably the most interesting aspect of all this. Don’t know what I’d do if I were Liverpool. Not withstanding your last point, I think I would be inclined to rinse and repeat last season - it gives them 3 months to investigate what the options are for playing without Suarez. They are much better with him, so if/when he comes back he can be used to boost them up the table and get them back in the CL. If he makes the right contrite noises and plays well, his value will be boosted a little bit. Then you sell him and know what Plan B is because you’ve already had it match tested. On the other hand, I don’t think I would blame them for cutting their losses either and reinvesting the money in a long term plan. The problem being though that the man is a shit but he’s a talent that is actually irreplaceable, there are literally only 2 or 3 footballers in the world who can do what he can do, none of him will be signing with Liverpool. If I am Brendan Rodgers, I would be working out what I want to do without him right now and building a plan so as they can retain their CL spot next year and be worrying a little less about whether and when to sell him or not until I’ve worked that out - they may after all need to sell him to finance the plan (last year they did OK without him at the start of the year from within the squad - can they do that again?). ---
**Author:** ![borschevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@borschevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/borschevsky)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/1683 "2014-06-26T14:52:55Z")
It really seems like just about anything is possible in the group G games today. Germany and the US both have incentive to just draw, but maybe both will attack, and the US in particular need goals. Plus there’s this rainstorm. In the other game, Ghana and Portugal both seem to be in some level of disarray, so that game could be a poorly played draw or a blowout in either direction. I wasn’t happy to see that second Portugal goal against the US, but it’s sure added intrigue to today’s games. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/1684 "2014-06-26T15:02:52Z")
> [@Red\_Wiggler](#): > > Boateng has been kicked off the Ghana squad for fighting and Sulley Muntari may be, too. This is a good thing for U.S. hopes. We need a wounded Portugal to draw or even win (by a little). Nooooo! But yeah, I’m pretty disappointed in Ghana’s antics of the last few days. Stay classy, Accra. > [@Dead\_Cat](#): > > Bit late in responding to this, but I think the argument is that of course you can have as many tiebreakers as you like (fair play would be a good one, I agree, if based on number of yellow/red cards in the competition - you could also have corners, fouls, whatever) but ultimately you will never totally eliminate the possibility of a dead heat all the way down. So drawing lots has to be your ultimate tiebreaker, it then becomes a question of degree in terms of how many other tiebreakers you have. > > I mean, you could conceivably say that the 2 teams with the most wins in the group qualify, if there is a tie you draw lots. This would produce a lot of lot drawing. Simple improvement is the points system so that draws get a point, wins get three. This still produces a lot of ties, so we have goal difference, then goals scored. All of these measures clearly relate to the fundamentals of a game of football. But beyond that, it’s less clear - corners, for example, can be a bit random and are not always a reliable indicator of success or good football. Fouls/cards can be skewed by poor (or corrupt) refereeing. Imagine the controversy if two teams were level in all respects late in their final group game, only for a player to dive and the opposition gets an undeserved yellow card that knocks them out. > > Personally, I feel they have got the balance about right with the current system, and the fact that drawing lots for a crucial position has not been needed at the finals thus far is testament to this. If it occurs in the future (and I agree it is very likely to sooner or later), well the teams concerned can hardly complain as they have both had 270 minutes of football to make a difference. Drawing lots becomes required if, and only if, the performance of two teams really is that closely matched that only randomness can separate them. Any other measures taken would likely be no less random than a coin toss. > > Finally, it’s useful for teams, coaches, and specatators to be able to (relatively) quickly and easily analyse their position going into (and during) the final game. A good deal of that ease would be lost if we introduced additional tiebreakers, even with the meticulous keeping of stats that is de rigeur nowadays. > > Well, I’ve convinced myself, if no-one else! Why is pre-World Cup FIFA rank not a possible tie-breaker. World Cup results should be based only on World Cup performance, but once you get through every other reasonable tie-breaker, this seems a better option than a coin toss. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/1685 "2014-06-26T15:08:24Z")
> [@Green\_Bean](#): > > Why is pre-World Cup FIFA rank not a possible tie-breaker. World Cup results should be based only on World Cup performance, but once you get through every other reasonable tie-breaker, this seems a better option than a coin toss. Because most people seem to agree that FIFA’s ranking system is a load of old twaddle. ---
**Author:** ![borschevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@borschevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/borschevsky)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/1686 "2014-06-26T15:12:40Z")
> [@Green\_Bean](#): > > Why is pre-World Cup FIFA rank not a possible tie-breaker. World Cup results should be based only on World Cup performance, but once you get through every other reasonable tie-breaker, this seems a better option than a coin toss. Which team would you have win the tiebreaker? The higher-ranked team, because they’re better, or the lower-ranked team, because they produced the same performance against higher-ranked opposition? Another approach that might be fun is a variation on the idea that knockout games should have the penalty shootouts before the main game, rather than after. You could do the same thing for the group - have a sort of opening ceremony for each group, which includes some format of shootout between all the teams, and the shootout results are the final group tiebreaker. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/1687 "2014-06-26T15:12:59Z")
> [@Green\_Bean](#): > > Why is pre-World Cup FIFA rank not a possible tie-breaker. World Cup results should be based only on World Cup performance, but once you get through every other reasonable tie-breaker, this seems a better option than a coin toss. Because the FIFA rankings are total bollocks and no-one takes them seriously. I’d go down the disciplinary road, reds, yellows then foul count. Or even corners earned and shots on target. There are plenty of better stats out there for determining who “deserves” to go through. ETA: ninja’d by pretty much everyone. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/1688 "2014-06-26T15:16:47Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Because the FIFA rankings are total bollocks and no-one takes them seriously. I’d go down the disciplinary road, reds, yellows then foul count. Or even corners earned and shots on target. There are plenty of better stats out there for determining who “deserves” to go through. > > ETA: ninja’d by pretty much everyone. Average KM run per player. Average hotornot rating. ---
**Author:** ![sideshowkar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5e9695/32.png) [@sideshowkar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sideshowkar)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/1689 "2014-06-26T15:19:06Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > ouchy! I was lucky in that it was a perfectly clean break and healed nicely. > I’m also fortunate that in nearly 30 years (:eek: how has it been 30 years) of adult football it has been my only bone breakage. So I guess I must not break easily but even so it was simple stopped shot that did the damage. I ended up in a cast, not in surgery, fortunately. The orthopedist I went to looked at the original x-rays and thought I would need surgery, but took x-rays from different angles (I vividly remember that - ouch!) and decided it was safe to try me in a cast for a week and see how it was going. Thankfully, all was good at the end of that week, so I was able to get by with just a couple of casts. Then, as I was about to get the cast off, I went to a local physical therapy office to make an appointment so I could start PT as soon as possible. As soon as I walked in, all the people who worked there started shaking their heads in disbelief as they get a look at the cast. I had just finished PT on both my ankles about 2 weeks before I broke my arm. I sprained them both, one for each season prior to breaking the arm, and just kept playing on them. The game I broke my arm was my last one. I’m willing to take all the abuse (and the migraine headaches after each and every game), but I can’t afford the medical bills. I played from ages 5-41 and miss it so much. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/1690 "2014-06-26T15:19:40Z")
One of the most absurd elements of the FIFA rankings is the way it can actually hurt your ranking to win friendlies. England found this out the hard way - the English FA, ever keen to raise money to pay for the new Wembley stadium, have arranged many friendlies over recent years. Due to the match-importance weightings FIFA use, these actually bring your rating average down even if you win! Switzerland played fewer friendlies and ended up getting seeded, ranked six in the world. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/1691 "2014-06-26T15:25:53Z")
> [@sideshowkar](#): > > he game I broke my arm was my last one. I’m willing to take all the abuse (and the migraine headaches after each and every game), but I can’t afford the medical bills. I played from ages 5-41 and miss it so much. I don’t want to get political but it is a great shame that expensive healthcare stops you playing. I’m very lucky that in the UK the treatment and physio for me was covered by the NHS so I didn’t pay a penny. My wife might say that’s a bad thing as a financial penalty might make me more careful. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/1692 "2014-06-26T15:27:41Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > Average KM run per player. That’s Italy fucked then. (he says, pandering to footballing stereotypes and expecting to now be deluged with statistics that show otherwise) ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_T-Cups](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Sir\_T-Cups](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_T-Cups)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/1693 "2014-06-26T15:28:07Z")
How much does coaching effect a soccer team? I know that it varies between sports, with some sports it having a HUGE impact (American football, basketball) whereas some other sports it doesn’t seem to have as much of an impact (baseball), how much does it work for soccer? It seems to me that the US has done well, and that a lot of it is attributed to Klinsy, but is it just better talent? or timing? or is it really coaching ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/1694 "2014-06-26T15:31:08Z")
> [@Cumbrian](#): > > Agreed on this - but I am English so would. Nevertheless, on the flip side, scoring against this Germany team “should” be easier than in previous years. Their defence looks worse than I have seen it in this tournament for a number of years. Mertesacker is slow and has the turning circle of a battleship, Hummels doesn’t have the pace to bail him out if he gets it wrong and Howedes has had a pretty torrid tournament thus far too. Put some pressure on them and the US can score tonight. This is true. It was strange watching the Germans against Ghana. A welcome sight to see them being ripped open so easily. Im not overly impressed about the individual talent in this US side. But I think they could teach our respective national teams on the importance of commitment and hard work. They seem to have a club mentality about them that both our respective national teams could learn a lesson from. ---
**Author:** ![sideshowkar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5e9695/32.png) [@sideshowkar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sideshowkar)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/1695 "2014-06-26T15:41:24Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I don’t want to get political but it is a great shame that expensive healthcare stops you playing. > I’m very lucky that in the UK the treatment and physio for me was covered by the NHS so I didn’t pay a penny. My wife might say that’s a bad thing as a financial penalty might make me more careful. 🙂 I completely agree. I was lucky to have some decent insurance when both of these things happened, but still had to cover a pretty high deductible (the amount I have to pay before the insurance starts to take over paying). My insurance isn’t quite as good now (although it is somehow even more expensive…), so I just don’t feel like I can take the chance. I still get out and kick the ball around a bit, but no league play for me anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/1696 "2014-06-26T15:42:16Z")
Suarez ban: [4 months from all football, 9 international competitive games.](http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/soccer-dirty-tackle/fifa-suspends-luis-suarez-for-nine-matches--also-banned-from-all-football-related-activity-for-four-months-135938740.html) Becomes at least 21 games when EPL and Champions League is included. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/1697 "2014-06-26T15:50:45Z")
Okay, so FIFA rankings are out. 🙂 In that case, I propose mud-wrestling. ---
**Author:** ![Laggard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de053/32.png) [@Laggard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laggard)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/1698 "2014-06-26T15:50:51Z")
IMO the U.S. men are punching above their weight. ---
**Author:** ![Uniqueorn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uniqueorn/32/2807_2.png) [@Uniqueorn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uniqueorn)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/1699 "2014-06-26T15:55:50Z")
> [@Green\_Bean](#): > > Okay, so FIFA rankings are out. 🙂 > > In that case, I propose mud-wrestling. With all the rain in Recife, that might be a good alternative! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840/1700 "2014-06-26T16:00:23Z")
I want to know what kind of asshole is lashing the ball at bone-shattering speeds in a casual game where you aren’t even keeping score! Sorry, **sideshowkar**. That sucks. On to the Suarez topic, I’m Facebook friends with a couple Uruguayans and they’re sharing conspiracy theories about how Chiellini already had a perfect Suarez bite-mark scar in 2012. Suarez bite truthers. What a world we live in. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840.md?page=84) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brasil-2014/687840.md?page=86)