# Brass Monkey **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 7, 2000, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brass-monkey/9928 "2000-04-07T06:12:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Templeton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Templeton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Templeton)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2000, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brass-monkey/9928/1 "2000-04-07T06:12:00Z")
Brass Monkey is a song by the Beastie Boys as many of us know, but what exactly is “brass monkey?” ---
**Author:** ![billehunt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c37758/32.png) [@billehunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billehunt)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2000, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brass-monkey/9928/2 "2000-04-07T07:05:00Z")
Booze: 1/2 oz Rum 1/2 oz Vodka 4 oz Orange juice I drink Brass Monkey and I rock well I got a Castle in Brooklyn; That’s where I dwell ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2000, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brass-monkey/9928/3 "2000-04-07T07:40:00Z")
Brass Monkey is short for the expression “cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey”. Evan Morris gives one explanation in his Word Detective column [here](http://www.word-detective.com/back-r.html#monkeys). Personally, I think Morris gave a bogus answer for this one to avoid offending his editors (editors tend to have very delicate sensibilities; I’m surprised any of them have been able to put up with Cecil for so long). There’s a nautical explanation which I favor: In the days of yore, cannon balls on naval ships were kept in racks, known as monkeys, to keep them from rolling around on the decks. On the better equipped ships, these racks were made of brass. When the weather got really cold, the racks would shrink at a different rate than the lead or cast iron cannon balls and eventually would not hold them. At this temperature, it was cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey. OK, this explanation is of the “too cute to be true” variety. But it sure sounds better than Morris’s. Besides, did the Victorians actually put those See-no-evil figures outside where they could get cold? * * * Dan Tilque ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2000, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brass-monkey/9928/4 "2000-04-07T08:05:00Z")
I don’t know where the expression came from, but my dad often used the term “Useless as tits on a brass monkey”. It just has a ring to it… * * * * * * Polydactyl Cats Unlimited “A Cat Cannot Have Too Many Toes” ---
**Author:** ![RTA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b4bc9f/32.png) [@RTA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTA)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2000, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brass-monkey/9928/5 "2000-04-07T11:24:00Z")
Brass Monkey was actually the brand name of a cheap fortified wine. Maybe you can still get it in places, the last I saw it was about 10 years ago in urban California (it came in hip-flask style bottles). I highly suspect this is the Brass Monkey the Beasties refer to. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2000, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brass-monkey/9928/6 "2000-04-07T11:25:00Z")
> [@](#): > > It just has a ring to it… Would that be a _brass ring_? 😃 > [@](#): > > OK, this explanation is of the “too cute to be true” variety. But it sure sounds better than Morris’s. Besides, did the Victorians actually put those See-no-evil figures outside where they could get cold? I’ve read this explanation before and I don’t buy it. Brass is expensive and requires frequent polishing, especially at sea. Doesn’t it make more sense to make the cannon ball “monkey” out of wood? Wood is cheaper and easier to replace when you’re far from your home port. Also, I’ve never noticed “brass monkies” on documentaries such as _Great Ships_, or heard them mention them. (But I’ll admit that I haven’t made a point of looking for brass squares on decks.) I just find the cannon-ball theory a little far-fetched. The Victorian story makes more sense to me, because brass monkies were popular knick-knacks back then. (I actually have a brass monkey, a reproduction of a dip-pen holder. [looking] Hmmm. Must be female…) I don’t think they kept them outside, but that doesn’t matter. It could still be cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey _if_ you took it outside. (If it’s very cold, I usually say, “Better keep the brass monkey inside.”) ## Wasn’t there a teevee show called _Tales of the Brass Monkey_? “I must leave this planet, if only for an hour.” – Antoine de St. Exupéry Are you a turtle? ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2000, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brass-monkey/9928/7 "2000-04-08T04:33:00Z")
I have the same reservations about why they would make racks for cannon balls out of brass and not wood. It seems ridiculous. So I looked up monkey in the OED and it reminded me of the original(?) form of the nautical etymology. It seems that monkey was nautical slang name for a small cannon (this is certain, the OED has the definition). If it got cold enough, a cannon ball would shrink more than the brass cannon that it was wedged into and would then roll out. Or maybe it wouldn’t wedge properly. This sounds a bit more plausible than the brass rack variant. * * * Dan Tilque ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Angel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d26b3c/32.png) [@Johnny\_Angel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Angel)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2000, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brass-monkey/9928/8 "2000-04-08T09:27:00Z")
**RTA** wrote: > [@](#): > > Brass Monkey was actually the brand name of a cheap fortified wine. I had always understood that Brass Monkey was the name of a whiskey, which made more sense, since some whiskeys taste a lot like brass. But I’m sure that James Brown’s _Night Train_ referrs to a wine. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2000, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brass-monkey/9928/9 "2000-04-08T10:14:00Z")
Try ["][http://www.quinion.com/words/qa/qa-bra1.htm[this]](http://www.quinion.com/words/qa/qa-bra1.htm%5Bthis%5D)]([http://www.quinion.com/words/qa/qa-bra1.htm](http://www.quinion.com/words/qa/qa-bra1.htm)[this) site ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2000, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brass-monkey/9928/10 "2000-04-08T10:26:00Z")
**DOH!** Try again-link for[brass monkey](http://www.quinion.com/words/qa/qa-bra1.htm) and any other phrases for their origins ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2000, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brass-monkey/9928/11 "2000-04-08T13:52:00Z")
**quinon** doesn’t explain the origin of the phrase, but he confirmed my guesses about the cannon-ball thing. I’m still voting for the Victorian knick-knack hypothesis. * * * “I must leave this planet, if only for an hour.” – Antoine de St. Exupéry Are you a turtle? ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2000, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brass-monkey/9928/12 "2000-04-08T14:34:00Z")
The only brass plate one the HMS Victorys deck(yes I **did** serve some time on there _and_ I fired the guns!) was the one that said. “Nelson fell here” Not surprising really as it sticks up just ehough-nearly went arse over myself 🙂