# Bratz BANNED **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 7, 2008, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bratz-banned/476114 "2008-12-07T08:46:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bratz-banned/476114/21 "2008-12-07T18:02:31Z")
I agree with **Little Nemo** on this. The Bratz dolls are definitely in the field for which he was being paid as a designer by Mattel. I don’t know the circumstances, but if he wanted to be above board, he might have first suggested the product line to Mattel and then, if they declined to sell it, ask for permission to take the idea elsewhere. (And no, I don’t see the appeal of the dolls.) ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bratz-banned/476114/22 "2008-12-07T18:54:02Z")
My SO has a few Bratz dolls. KaChing! Collector’s item. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bratz-banned/476114/23 "2008-12-07T18:55:14Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I agree with **Little Nemo** on this. The Bratz dolls are definitely in the field for which he was being paid as a designer by Mattel. I don’t know the circumstances, but if he wanted to be above board, he might have first suggested the product line to Mattel and then, if they declined to sell it, ask for permission to take the idea elsewhere. (And no, I don’t see the appeal of the dolls.) Well I do think he has a duty to present the idea to Mattel, but if they don’t want to use it he should be free to pass it around. While I don’t Bratz really work to the public good I do think IP law should reflect the public good first. It’s the sole reason we have IP in the US. Giving a company the ability to prevent another person’s work from ever being exposed to the public does nothing but diminish us. ---
**Author:** ![Campion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@Campion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Campion)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bratz-banned/476114/24 "2008-12-07T19:04:09Z")
You should also note that that the judge who granted the restraining order said that the parties’ (and their attorneys’) utter animosity towards each other led to the court-ordered solution; this is a case that should have settled, but the parties’ inability to communicate rendered that impossible. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bratz-banned/476114/25 "2008-12-07T19:10:14Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > On one hand, I’m happy that idiot American parents have one less piece of plastic shit to charge to their credit cards and pay 26% interest on (feverishly hoping for a “bailout” the whole while) for their greedy and grabby kids who are being raised in instant gratification mode. Who shit in your bran flakes? If you’re don’t like (a) toys, (b) kids, or (c) toys and kids, there’s lot of threads on other subjects. This one actually have a chance to be an interesting thread on issues of intellectual ownership and employment. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bratz-banned/476114/26 "2008-12-07T19:14:16Z")
I know this is catty as all hell, but I’m shocked - shocked! that the same mind that came up with whore dolls was also a thief and couldn’t arbitrate for shit. Shocked. :rolleyes: My dad found himself in a similar spot when he was offered a job with a major competitor in his field. No amount of lawyers or money could get him out of his contracted secrecy clauses, and so he had to return, hat in hand, to the employer he’d last seen in court and beg for his job back. He got it, but at the cost of a cross country move which precipitated a divorce. Do not fuck with no compete clauses or intellectual property rights held by major companies, dumbasses! I’m so glad these little creepy dolls are going away. I only shudder to think what might replace them. ---
**Author:** ![Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/bc8723/32.png) [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unauthorized_Cinnamon)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bratz-banned/476114/27 "2008-12-07T19:26:06Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > I thought Bratz looked like prostitutes. Ever since they came out, I’ve been calling them Slutz. ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bratz-banned/476114/28 "2008-12-07T19:52:57Z")
So… If I’m a staff photographer for a company, does that company also own the rights to my vacation photos? If I’m a graphic designer for a company, and I do a small freelance project on my own personal time for a small business, does the big company own the rights to the small company’s marketing materials? There has to be a line here. If I work for a company, I’m an employee, not an indentured servant. What I do on my personal time _should not belong to them._ _If_ the Bratz line was a work project, done during office hours, with instruction/feedback/etc. from his bosses, co-workers, higher-ups, etc., which was then ultimately shelved, then yes, I can see and would agree with the argument that it belongs to Mattel. _If_ the Bratz design used a body mold that was practically indistinguishable from the Barbie mold, I could see the argument that it infringes on their copyright and/or trademark. _If_ the Bratz design was developed on his own time, Mattel should keep their ugly mitts off. They don’t look like Barbie, they can’t possibly be confused with Barbie, and unless the NYT was not entirely accurate, he was, specifically, a Barbie designer and not a doll designer in general, so the Bratz line was outside his job description. I don’t know what the case is (aside from point 2 – Bratz very clearly look nothing like Barbie. And I’ve seen Barbie knockoffs out there that _are_ nearly identical). But I am tired of large companies thinking they completely own their employees and everything they do just because they have money and lawyers. Their employees have IP rights too. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bratz-banned/476114/29 "2008-12-07T19:58:17Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > I know this is catty as all hell, but I’m shocked - shocked! that the same mind that came up with whore dolls was also a thief and couldn’t arbitrate for shit. Shocked. :rolleyes: OMG, that was funny as hell! Funny because it’s true. I’m going to quote you to my wife: “whore dolls” - classic! ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bratz-banned/476114/30 "2008-12-07T20:02:58Z")
> [@Kaio](#): > > So… > > If I’m a staff photographer for a company, does that company also own the rights to my vacation photos? > > If I’m a graphic designer for a company, and I do a small freelance project on my own personal time for a small business, does the big company own the rights to the small company’s marketing materials? > > There has to be a line here. If I work for a company, I’m an employee, not an indentured servant. What I do on my personal time _should not belong to them._ > > _If_ the Bratz line was a work project, done during office hours, with instruction/feedback/etc. from his bosses, co-workers, higher-ups, etc., which was then ultimately shelved, then yes, I can see and would agree with the argument that it belongs to Mattel. > > _If_ the Bratz design used a body mold that was practically indistinguishable from the Barbie mold, I could see the argument that it infringes on their copyright and/or trademark. > > _If_ the Bratz design was developed on his own time, Mattel should keep their ugly mitts off. They don’t look like Barbie, they can’t possibly be confused with Barbie, and unless the NYT was not entirely accurate, he was, specifically, a Barbie designer and not a doll designer in general, so the Bratz line was outside his job description. > > I don’t know what the case is (aside from point 2 – Bratz very clearly look nothing like Barbie. And I’ve seen Barbie knockoffs out there that _are_ nearly identical). But I am tired of large companies thinking they completely own their employees and everything they do just because they have money and lawyers. Their employees have IP rights too. He was working for Mattel - that was the only reason he was designing dolls in the first place. Doesn’t really matter if he does it at the office, or at his home one cold weekend, the fact remains that, whenever and whereever he created Bratz, he wouldn’t have been designing dolls _at all_ if he weren’t being paid to do it by Mattel. ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bratz-banned/476114/31 "2008-12-07T20:24:07Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > He was working for Mattel - that was the only reason he was designing dolls in the first place. Doesn’t really matter if he does it at the office, or at his home one cold weekend, the fact remains that, whenever and whereever he created Bratz, he wouldn’t have been designing dolls _at all_ if he weren’t being paid to do it by Mattel. Bunk. I freelance as a designer/marketer/photographer whenever the opportunity presents itself. I’m not currently employed by any company, but I’m _still_ picking up whatever projects I can. I continue to design whether I’m currently a W-2 employee somewhere or not. And, here’s a major point – I freelance on my own time _even when employed full-time elsewhere,_ and even if my current FT job requires the exact same skills. That’s my particular skillset, it’s what I’m good at, and I will use it to bring in whatever money I can, plus I happen to like doing it. He wouldn’t be designing if he weren’t employed there? I find that highly doubtful. If he had the skills and the idea, and he clearly had both, I strongly suspect he still would have designed Bratz even if he had been working as an accountant. I expect that product design in general, or toy design in particular, is the thing he most likely went to school for. I really don’t think a big company like Mattel would hire someone with no skills at doll design at all. All that aside, there is still a difference between designing something specifically as a work project, under instruction or sanction from the people he works for, and stuff that he does for himself on his own time. If you want to follow that slippery slope, then you’d also be claiming that the website I designed over a weekend for a gaming company, really belongs to the business magazine publisher I was working for, as a W-2, at the time. You may think that’s perfectly sensible. I don’t, and sure as hell I’d kick up a fuss if the publishing company thought they had a right to that website. ---
**Author:** ![Jaglavak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/85f322/32.png) [@Jaglavak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jaglavak)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bratz-banned/476114/32 "2008-12-07T20:28:41Z")
I have been forced to sign one of these bullshit contracts at every job I’ve had since school. The contract says that the company owns every idea I might have while working for them, and for a year after working for them. Including in my own garage on a weekend. They get the millions, I get a brass plaque. I can hear it already, “You aren’t _forced_ to sign anything!” Yeah right, only if I want to work in my field. All companies do this now, so that argument is bullshit. My research indicates that if I have an invention that is totally developed on my own time and resources, and is completely unrelated to my employer’s line of business, then I might have a good chance of prevailing in court. Unfortunately the lawyer fees would demolish my life savings and then it could be years before I see any return out of an invention. So that’s not an option in the real world. I strongly disagree with this standard but I sorta need a paying job. Therefore if I happen invent some fantastic new billion dollar product next week, I will shred the paperwork and return to my assigned duties. Fuck the greed sucking pricks. ---
**Author:** ![Lucky\_13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucky_13/32/13209_2.png) [@Lucky\_13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucky_13)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bratz-banned/476114/33 "2008-12-07T20:48:42Z")
I’m kind of conflicted about this. Yeah, Bratz dolls look and are dressed like a gaggle of underage hookers. They remind me of a bunch of high school girls who sneak out of a sleepover in tiny Forever 21 skirts to a party where they plan to get drunk on Alize and possibly give a guy they just met a hand job or something. On the other hand, I feel kind of bad that an alternative to the pink hegemony of Barbie is being removed. Plus my kid likes the slutty little plastic whores, mostly 'cause the dolls she has were given to her by her aunts. I have gotten her a couple of the more decently dressed ones, and I am still kicking myself for caving in like that. And I’m not quite ready to explain to her why I don’t like to buy Bratz dolls to her with anything other than a lame “Mommy doesn’t like them 'cause they wear too much make-up.” And don’t even get me started on the Bratz Boyz. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bratz-banned/476114/34 "2008-12-07T20:53:39Z")
Aaaand the Bratz ads are still on TV. What gives? ---
**Author:** ![Lucky\_13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucky_13/32/13209_2.png) [@Lucky\_13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucky_13)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bratz-banned/476114/35 "2008-12-07T20:57:35Z")
Technically they’re not supposed to be off the shelves till early next year, after the holiday shopping season is over. So MGA can still advertise the Bratz and related merchandise until they absolutely _have_ to stop. ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bratz-banned/476114/36 "2008-12-07T20:57:46Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > Aaaand the Bratz ads are still on TV. > > What gives? From the link in the OP > [@](#): > > “U.S. District Judge Stephen Larson rocked the toy industry with his order that MGA must immediately stop manufacturing Bratz. **He allowed MGA to wait until the holiday season ends to remove the toys from store shelves.** ” ---
**Author:** ![holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e95f7d/32.png) [@holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/holmes)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bratz-banned/476114/37 "2008-12-07T21:21:27Z")
I don’t get all the Bratz hate…The thing about Bratz, despite what those who don’t have their fingers on the pulse of what the hipsters are wearing; is that they were one of the few lines of non-white dolls that the big chains like Walmart had in stock. If you come from a big ol’s multi-cultural family, come you know how difficult it is to purchase ‘off the rack’ ethnic dolls; I think there’s a value to a line of dolls, in which every character is designed with a certain ‘realism’ in skin tones and varied from the typical blonde we’ve all had stoved down our throats; for generations. I think this was one of the few times I could find a latin, an asian, and black doll and by black, I mean dark freaking chocolate, the kind you want you to just…um, yeah. Anyway, while I understand the reluctance to support over made-up dolls, i think that the attempt to try to create dolls that dressed like a lot of young people dressed…slutty or not and have dolls, male and female that weren’t the bastard children of Barbie; wasn’t such a bad thing…even with the extra make-up and teen pregancy clothes. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bratz-banned/476114/38 "2008-12-07T21:23:52Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Who shit in your bran flakes? I don’t eat bran flakes, nor need to eat breakfast in general. > [@](#): > > If [sic]you’re[/sic] don’t like (a) toys, (b) kids, or (c) toys and kids Three strikes, you’re definitely out. > [@](#): > > This one actually have a chance to be an interesting thread on issues of intellectual ownership and employment. Odd that you had nothing to say about the comments about the dolls looking like prostitutes, which of course has nothing to do with your apparently important ideal of "an interesting thread on issues of intellectual ownership and employment.’ :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bratz-banned/476114/39 "2008-12-07T21:25:44Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > [MGA, maker of Bratz, ordered to shut the whole franchise down by federal judge.](http://money.cnn.com/2008/12/04/news/companies/bratz_dolls.ap/index.htm?postversion=2008120406) Barbie, Barbie, let’s go party! ---
**Author:** ![mobo85](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mobo85](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mobo85)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bratz-banned/476114/40 "2008-12-07T21:34:18Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Barbie, Barbie, let’s go party! The parties are advised to chill. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bratz-banned/476114.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bratz-banned/476114.md?page=3)