# Brave or what? Royal Marine jumps on grenade **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 31, 2008, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brave-or-what-royal-marine-jumps-on-grenade/443366 "2008-03-31T11:58:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2008, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brave-or-what-royal-marine-jumps-on-grenade/443366/1 "2008-03-31T11:58:47Z")
[Link](http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article3648975.ece) to Times article. And he survived and they turned it into an ambush for the Taliban. What a brave man! ---
**Author:** ![pretend\_my\_name\_is\_witty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b9e5f3/32.png) [@pretend\_my\_name\_is\_witty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pretend_my_name_is_witty)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2008, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brave-or-what-royal-marine-jumps-on-grenade/443366/2 "2008-03-31T12:32:59Z")
That’s incredible, balls of steel, and a day sack to match by the sounds of things. Trying to find more about the story, but if it’s as covered in the linked one, I hope he does get the VC. Would be a massive boost to TA soldiers and officers. It’s great to hear some good news on a day when two RM were killed from my home town (40 Commando), that’s all over the news at the moment. ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2008, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brave-or-what-royal-marine-jumps-on-grenade/443366/3 "2008-03-31T13:09:52Z")
I thought he maybe shoved his helmet on it, a la Hollywood, but I suppose a tightly packed rucksack would do. [QUOTE=Quartz] And he survived and they turned it into an ambush for the Taliban [/QUOTE] I liked that part of the story best perhaps, turning the whole thing into an advantageous situation for themselves. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2008, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brave-or-what-royal-marine-jumps-on-grenade/443366/4 "2008-03-31T14:56:58Z")
[QUOTE=Pushkin] I thought he maybe shoved his helmet on it, a la Hollywood, but I suppose a tightly packed rucksack would do. [/QUOTE] A rucksack would probably be better. A helmet would just shatter into a million pieces while a pack would act like a sandbag, absorbing much of the shrapnel and blast. ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2008, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brave-or-what-royal-marine-jumps-on-grenade/443366/5 "2008-03-31T15:09:04Z")
True, I remembered the story of bibles in pockets stopping shrapnel or bullets during WWI. The story goes that some were sold with metal inserts after this that made them shower the user with shrapnel. ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2008, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brave-or-what-royal-marine-jumps-on-grenade/443366/6 "2008-03-31T15:14:32Z")
He’s brave, and lucky. But I’m really impressed with his brains - I think it had to take an effort of will to think to put the ruck against the grenade, instead of his belly. That’s the thing that impresses me the most that he could think that clearly in such a stressful, and time-sensitive situation. I hope he does get the VC. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2008, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brave-or-what-royal-marine-jumps-on-grenade/443366/7 "2008-03-31T15:17:01Z")
That’s phenomenal, but nevertheless you have to wonder how he’s going to be after that. He made a conscious decision to die, and he didn’t. Were it me that did it I’d be wondering why I didn’t die but my comrades did. Just something to think about. ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2008, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brave-or-what-royal-marine-jumps-on-grenade/443366/8 "2008-03-31T15:24:55Z")
In mitigation of that, it seems, reading the article, that the three comrades he’d specifically meant to sacrifice himself to save survived at least long enough to put in the paperwork to start the awards process. That’s not armor against the sort of psychological injury you mention, though. I’ll admit I’m thinking more about what long-term physiological effects he’ll get from that late in life. All one can do is hope that he remains as unscathed as he is presented as, now. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2008, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brave-or-what-royal-marine-jumps-on-grenade/443366/9 "2008-03-31T15:44:48Z")
[QUOTE=Airman Doors, USAF] That’s phenomenal, but nevertheless you have to wonder how he’s going to be after that. He made a conscious decision to die, and he didn’t. Were it me that did it I’d be wondering why I didn’t die but my comrades did. [/QUOTE] His comrades didn’t die. He saved them all. **Pretend** is talking about a completely seperate incident. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2008, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brave-or-what-royal-marine-jumps-on-grenade/443366/10 "2008-03-31T20:11:32Z")
[QUOTE=Quartz] His comrades didn’t die. He saved them all. **Pretend** is talking about a completely seperate incident. [/QUOTE] I’m aware of that. What I’m referring to is when he goes home and some of his mates do not. Having made a conscious decision to die, it is simply human nature to wonder how he survived but others who didn’t do anything quite so hazardous came home on their shields. ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2008, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brave-or-what-royal-marine-jumps-on-grenade/443366/11 "2008-03-31T21:21:17Z")
Would having a chance to take a piece out of the people who set the trap for them alleviate the problem any? ---
**Author:** ![Rayne\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df705f/32.png) [@Rayne\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rayne_Man)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2008, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brave-or-what-royal-marine-jumps-on-grenade/443366/12 "2008-03-31T22:10:06Z")
[QUOTE=Pushkin] True, I remembered the story of bibles in pockets stopping shrapnel or bullets during WWI. The story goes that some were sold with metal inserts after this that made them shower the user with shrapnel. [/QUOTE] I was watching a recent programme on BBC 4 about the history of the harmonica. It turns out that this instrument was also responsible for saving lives by stopping bullets because they were usually stored in the breast pocket of a uniform, thus protecting the heart. ---
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2008, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brave-or-what-royal-marine-jumps-on-grenade/443366/13 "2008-04-01T08:11:57Z")
[QUOTE=Airman Doors, USAF] I’m aware of that. What I’m referring to is when he goes home and some of his mates do not. Having made a conscious decision to die, it is simply human nature to wonder how he survived but others who didn’t do anything quite so hazardous came home on their shields. [/QUOTE] Well, from the report in yesterday’s [_Daily Mirror,_](http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/topstories/2008/03/31/marine-matt-in-line-for-vc-after-diving-on-a-grenade-89520-20368409/) he expected to survive: > [@](#): > > The grenade had been stuck to a stick with tape. The force of the pin coming out knocked the grenade off its stick and it fell by my feet. I thought to myself, ‘I’ve set this bloody thing off and I’m going to protect the others.’ “So I jumped on the ground with my back to the grenade and used my body as a shield for the blokes behind me. > Because the body armour is good I figured I’d keep my torso and head intact - although I fully expected to lose a limb.” It’s good to see he had such confidence in his equipment. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2008, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brave-or-what-royal-marine-jumps-on-grenade/443366/14 "2008-04-01T09:19:15Z")
[QUOTE=Pushkin] True, I remembered the story of bibles in pockets stopping shrapnel or bullets during WWI. The story goes that some were sold with metal inserts after this that made them shower the user with shrapnel. [/QUOTE] I don’t get it… was the metal insert included ostensibly to increase the chance of stopping a bullet, but just didn’t work as planned? ---
**Author:** ![Will\_Repair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a698b9/32.png) [@Will\_Repair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Will_Repair)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2008, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brave-or-what-royal-marine-jumps-on-grenade/443366/15 "2008-04-01T09:27:09Z")
I’d put him on the short list of people I’d follow into war, and I haven’t even served with him. ---
**Author:** ![slaphead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@slaphead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slaphead)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2008, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brave-or-what-royal-marine-jumps-on-grenade/443366/16 "2008-04-01T20:54:28Z")
[QUOTE=OtakuLoki] That’s the thing that impresses me the most that he could think that clearly in such a stressful, and time-sensitive situation. [/QUOTE] Me too. When I read this I couldn’t help thinking that he did exactly the right thing in an instant, whereas in that situation I would have either: [ul] [li]Screamed like a girl and tried to run in a panic[/li][li]Stood frozen in terror, staring at the grenade, thinking “I really should jump on that with my rucksack against it” until it went off[/li][/ul] while shitting myself thoroughly Either way, it wouldn’t have ended well. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2008, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brave-or-what-royal-marine-jumps-on-grenade/443366/17 "2008-04-01T22:54:10Z")
[QUOTE=msmith537] A rucksack would probably be better. A helmet would just shatter into a million pieces while a pack would act like a sandbag, absorbing much of the shrapnel and blast. [/QUOTE] Not necessarily. [John P. Baca](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Baca) did just that with a helmet and survived, altough he was injured. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brave-or-what-royal-marine-jumps-on-grenade/443366/18 "2008-04-02T02:30:56Z")
[QUOTE=Pushkin] True, I remembered the story of bibles in pockets stopping shrapnel or bullets during WWI. The story goes that some were sold with metal inserts after this that made them shower the user with shrapnel. [/QUOTE] I think Mythbusters disproved that. Maybe if the blast or gunshot came from further away and the projectile didn’t have much velocity left. Or possibly low caliber pistol rounds. A rifle round would just go right through the Bible and whoever was carrying it. ---
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brave-or-what-royal-marine-jumps-on-grenade/443366/19 "2008-04-02T08:49:12Z")
[QUOTE=msmith537] I think Mythbusters disproved that. Maybe if the blast or gunshot came from further away and the projectile didn’t have much velocity left. Or possibly low caliber pistol rounds. A rifle round would just go right through the Bible and whoever was carrying it. [/QUOTE] I’m not quite sure what they disproved – that bibles make an adequate subsitute for body armour? It’s certainly the case that bullets _have_ been stopped or deflected by bibles; also hipflasks, police badges, wristwatches, tweed jackets, and [even bras.](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4319966.stm) The point is that these are freak occurrences (or, if you’re that way inclined, “miracles”). They’re not the sort of thing that’s easily reproducable under laboratory conditions. ---
**Author:** ![BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brave-or-what-royal-marine-jumps-on-grenade/443366/20 "2008-04-02T15:25:38Z")
You can tell a true war story by the questions you ask. Somebody tells a story, let’s say, and afterward you ask, “Is it true?” and if the answer matters, you’ve got your answer. For example, we’ve all heard this one. Four guys go down a trail. A grenade sails out. One guy jumps on it and takes the blast and saves his three buddies. Is it true? The answer matters. You’d feel cheated if it never happened. Without the grounding reality, it’s just a trite bit of puffery, pure Hollywood, untrue in the way all such stories are untrue. Yet even if it did happen - and maybe it did, anything’s possible even then you know it can’t be true, because a true war story does not depend upon that kind of truth. Absolute occurrence is irrelevant. A thing may happen and be a total lie; another thing may not happen and be truer than the truth. For example: Four guys go down a trail. A grenade sails out. One guy jumps on it and takes the blast, but it’s a killer grenade and everybody dies anyway. Before they die, though, one of the dead guys says, “The fuck you do that for?” and the jumper says, “Story of my life, man,” and the other guy starts to smile but he’s dead. That’s a true story that never happened. -Tim O’Brien, _The Things They Carried_ [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brave-or-what-royal-marine-jumps-on-grenade/443366.md?page=2)