# Brave Scott Brown Bravely Ran Away (from debate with Elizabeth Warren) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 19, 2012, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brave-scott-brown-bravely-ran-away-from-debate-with-elizabeth-warren/625677 "2012-06-19T20:28:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brave-scott-brown-bravely-ran-away-from-debate-with-elizabeth-warren/625677/81 "2012-06-21T21:01:17Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Nothing in Shodan’s cite demonstrates Warren is lying. Right, right - there is no contradiction at all between > [@](#): > > she had formally informed both Harvard University and the University of Pennsylvania that she was a Native American and > [@](#): > > when the Boston Herald first reported on the fact that Warren was listed as a Native American in a faculty directory, she said that she had no previous knowledge of that fact and had not authorized Harvard to list her as a minority. None whatsoever. Nope, not at all. Saying “no, I never did that” and “yes, I did that” are exactly the same thing. 😃 Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brave-scott-brown-bravely-ran-away-from-debate-with-elizabeth-warren/625677/82 "2012-06-21T21:21:53Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Right, right - there is no contradiction at all between and > > None whatsoever. Nope, not at all. Saying “no, I never did that” and “yes, I did that” are exactly the same thing. 😃 > > Regards, > Shodan I can so casually and instantly see the flaw in your so-called reasoning that I can only assume you suffered head trauma in childhood. - Warren tells Harvard she has Native-American heritage (other accounts indicate this is little more than checking a box on a form, something she eventually stopped doing) - The university then uses this information in their faculty directory, presumably to show off how diverse they are and junk. - Warren learns of Harvard’s actions later on, “she said that she had no previous knowledge of that fact” [that Harvard was doing this], and adds that she “had not authorized Harvard to list her as a minority”. I fair to see even a hint of deception on Warren’s part. Are you claiming she knew about the faculty directory’s cite, and that it applied to her, then lied about it? I’ll need something approaching actual evidence, thanks, because you have no credibility with me. If this is _not_ what you’re claiming, then feel free to restate it more clearly. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brave-scott-brown-bravely-ran-away-from-debate-with-elizabeth-warren/625677/83 "2012-06-21T21:29:10Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > - Warren tells Harvard she has Native-American heritage (other accounts indicate this is little more than checking a box on a form, something she eventually stopped doing) And later denied having done so. And then admitted that she had. > [@](#): > > I fair to see even a hint of deception on Warren’s part. It’s not my fault you’re stupid. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brave-scott-brown-bravely-ran-away-from-debate-with-elizabeth-warren/625677/84 "2012-06-21T21:45:02Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > And later denied having done so. And then admitted that she had. It’s not my fault you’re stupid. True, you’re not responsible for _his_ stupidity. Possibly not for your own either, if **Bryan** ’s head trauma hypothesis is accurate. Do you really not understand what he’s saying, and why her statements were not necessarily contradictory? Or are you just so pleased with this “gotcha” you think you’ve found that you’re reluctant to part with it? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brave-scott-brown-bravely-ran-away-from-debate-with-elizabeth-warren/625677/85 "2012-06-21T21:46:02Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > And later denied having done so. Denied what? Knowing that Harvard was telling other people that she was Native American? I had to reread your own cite, since I gather you didn’t even read it _once_. Just to see if we’re talking about the same thing, is it your claim that (and please note that I’m _asking_ if this is your claim, not resorting to the lame-ass bit of just assuming it is)… -Warren told the schools she worked for that she was Native American. -The schools obviously got this information at some point, since they used it in their publications. -Warren later said that she _didn’t_ tell the schools she was Native American, or at least didn’t tell them so before she was hired, thus any such claimed heritage was not a factor in her hiring. She also claims to have not derived any benefits from the claim, which presumably would include preferential hiring consideration. Is this what you are claiming? I’d like to be clear. > [@](#): > > It’s not my fault you’re stupid. I’ve already concluded that you’re stupid (or if I was going to be generous, and I’m not especially so inclined, that you’re so partisan that you’ll embrace stupidity for political reasons), hence you repeating it back is of little or no consequence. I will cheerfully admit that I’m inclined to trust Warren and I’m disinclined to trust _you_, so if it’s her word against yours and the cites you cherry pick to bolster your arguments, Warren will win by default, barring the presentation of especially good evidence. Your burden is high, based on your present and past behaviour. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brave-scott-brown-bravely-ran-away-from-debate-with-elizabeth-warren/625677/86 "2012-06-21T22:15:08Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Is this what you are claiming? I’d like to be clear. I’m afraid it won’t be possible to explain it to you, since Warren is a Democrat. If she were a Republican, you would get it just fine, but as it is, it is another example of [blackwhite](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Newspeak_words#Blackwhite). Oldthinkers unbellyfeel EngSoc, after all. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brave-scott-brown-bravely-ran-away-from-debate-with-elizabeth-warren/625677/87 "2012-06-21T22:23:10Z")
It’s _IngSoc_, stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brave-scott-brown-bravely-ran-away-from-debate-with-elizabeth-warren/625677/88 "2012-06-21T22:32:56Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I’m afraid it won’t be possible to explain it to you, since Warren is a Democrat. If she were a Republican, you would get it just fine, but as it is, it is another example of [blackwhite](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Newspeak_words#Blackwhite). Someone else’s partisanship blinds them to your argument, so there’s no need to explain yourself or answer questions. How convenient for you. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brave-scott-brown-bravely-ran-away-from-debate-with-elizabeth-warren/625677/89 "2012-06-21T22:37:50Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > As i said to **John Mace** earlier, i don’t really blame Brown for avoiding the venue. My main problem was with him accepting the venue, but placing completely unreasonable conditions on his appearance. > > It would be like Obama agreeing to a FOX debate, on the condition that no FOX commentators take any position on the upcoming election. Right, because objectivity has no place in journalism. Oh, wait, we’re talking about FOX. Never mind. From Brown’s press release: “We respect Vicki Kennedy’s decision but we regret that we cannot accept a debate invitation from someone who plans to endorse Scott Brown’s opponent,” Respect. You’re doing it wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brave-scott-brown-bravely-ran-away-from-debate-with-elizabeth-warren/625677/90 "2012-06-21T22:42:18Z")
What exactly would Vicki Kennedy’s role have been in the debate, anyway? Master of Ceremonies? Moderator? Question-writer? Time-keeper? ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brave-scott-brown-bravely-ran-away-from-debate-with-elizabeth-warren/625677/91 "2012-06-21T22:46:04Z")
Apparently, owner of the site. And, a Kennedy. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brave-scott-brown-bravely-ran-away-from-debate-with-elizabeth-warren/625677/92 "2012-06-21T23:07:09Z")
Well, I can’t fault Brown for using an excuse, any excuse, to avoid a situation where he perceives a likely disadvantage. Truth be told, the modern debate format with sound-bite answers isn’t that great, either. I’d kinda like to see them interviewed separately, by a reporter with a list of questions, each getting a straight half-hour or so. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brave-scott-brown-bravely-ran-away-from-debate-with-elizabeth-warren/625677/93 "2012-06-21T23:17:19Z")
I think Warren should just show up on the agreed-upon date and answer the questions posed to her. If Brown chooses not to show up, that’s his call. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brave-scott-brown-bravely-ran-away-from-debate-with-elizabeth-warren/625677/94 "2012-06-21T23:18:25Z")
So what kinds of magazines do you think Brown reads? ---
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brave-scott-brown-bravely-ran-away-from-debate-with-elizabeth-warren/625677/95 "2012-06-21T23:39:16Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > So what kinds of magazines do you think Brown reads? All of them, of course! ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brave-scott-brown-bravely-ran-away-from-debate-with-elizabeth-warren/625677/96 "2012-06-21T23:50:07Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > So what kinds of magazines do you think Brown reads? All of them. But [this is her favorite](http://www.nativepeoples.com/). And she can see Cape Cod from her front porch, you betcha! ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brave-scott-brown-bravely-ran-away-from-debate-with-elizabeth-warren/625677/97 "2012-06-21T23:52:37Z")
Brown’s the guy, doof. ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brave-scott-brown-bravely-ran-away-from-debate-with-elizabeth-warren/625677/98 "2012-06-21T23:53:58Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > So what kinds of magazines do you think Brown reads? Cosmo, he may just be looking at it for the pictures, which would be pretty vain. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brave-scott-brown-bravely-ran-away-from-debate-with-elizabeth-warren/625677/99 "2012-06-21T23:57:57Z")
Let us applaud progress wherever we find it! There was a time when posing all nekkid for _Cosmo_ would disqualify a candidate, in the eyes of Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2012, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brave-scott-brown-bravely-ran-away-from-debate-with-elizabeth-warren/625677/100 "2012-06-22T00:15:03Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Brown’s the guy, doof. Hey, they both end in “n”, so they’re easy to mix up! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brave-scott-brown-bravely-ran-away-from-debate-with-elizabeth-warren/625677.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brave-scott-brown-bravely-ran-away-from-debate-with-elizabeth-warren/625677.md?page=6)