# "... Bravely Fighting \[Illness/Disease\]" **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 29, 2016, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bravely-fighting-illness-disease/767229 "2016-09-29T19:00:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bravely-fighting-illness-disease/767229/21 "2016-09-30T19:45:38Z")
> [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](#): > > All of this. I hate being called “brave” or “strong” or similar things. I’m just doing what I have to do to stay alive, and sometimes it is total crap and sometimes it’s alright and sometimes it has me in tears but whatever it is it’s just me doing what I do. > > I think it’s because there’s such a tone of pity whenever people use that. I hate being pitied or condescended to, I always have. I think we would all argue that you have been brave. You haven’t always felt brave (and isn’t that another aspect of bravery - a bit of a side note - that you do what needs doing, even though it doesn’t feel great, and you don’t feel strong or wonderful.) I’m sorry that you feel that some have condescended to you. I suspect that it’s because until they’ve been in your shoes, or know someone who has, it’s awkward to know how to relate; similar, I would imagine, to relating to someone in a wheelchair. > [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > But I think there also needs to be some voluntary aspect to it. > > Imagine you’re in a battle and you run away while trying to avoid people shooting at you from all sides. That’s pretty dangerous and frightening but not brave - you’re doing it because remaining at the front is even more dangerous and frightening. > > So if you’re deadly ill and your only hope is to undergo some extremely unpleasant treatment, that’s dangerous and frightening, but many people find dying even more dangerous and frightening so they elect for it anyway. > > [Of course this is not to compare people fighting illness to people running away from battle. This is only to make a very limited point that doing something that is dangerous and frightening is not necessarily brave.] Frightening and necessary is still brave. Doing something you are terrified of doing is definition of bravery. Doing it repeatedly, as is often the case with illness, is brave. I had a friend with Stage 4 cancer. She sought options and fought on a long, long time. She lived 5 years instead of the 1 she was given. She did not want to leave her family, and she often chose to work between treatment regimens (when her doctors felt her immune system could tolerate it). I suppose it’s easy to say, well, the alternative is death, so she wasn’t brave, but she definitely took the hardest imaginable road to get there. I will have to respectfully disagree that there is not an element of bravery in fighting an illness or disability, mental or physical. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bravely-fighting-illness-disease/767229/22 "2016-09-30T19:55:46Z")
I, too, have known people like \*\*Biggirl \*\*mentioned. I have always though “Bravely Fighting” meant dealing with it with dignity. Went through the treatments, dealt with the side effects and still stayed positive, likable people. Some of the treatments are frightening simply by being as unpleasant as I can imagine. ---
**Author:** ![Helena330](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/helena330/32/531_2.png) [@Helena330](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helena330)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bravely-fighting-illness-disease/767229/23 "2016-09-30T20:05:09Z")
> [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](#): > > All of this. I hate being called “brave” or “strong” or similar things. I’m just doing what I have to do to stay alive, and sometimes it is total crap and sometimes it’s alright and sometimes it has me in tears but whatever it is it’s just me doing what I do. > > I think it’s because there’s such a tone of pity whenever people use that. I hate being pitied or condescended to, I always have. You summed up my feelings perfectly. When I was in the middle of dealing with my cancer, I’d cringe when people talked about my being courageous or brave. There were two choices: deal with, or not. Not dealing with it would’ve been much more miserable. No bravery there. Asking how someone’s doing and actually listening is so much more meaningful. I don’t know about you, **Maggie** , but people were afraid to ask me. I would’ve welcomed talking about it rather than listening to the bravery crap. Maybe people didn’t WANT to hear about it. Some did, but I suspect others wanted to assuage their conscience without feeling uncomfortable. So they talked about my bravery because then they didn’t have to listen to the nitty gritty horrible details that comprise cancer. ---
**Author:** ![Helena330](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/helena330/32/531_2.png) [@Helena330](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helena330)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bravely-fighting-illness-disease/767229/24 "2016-09-30T20:07:18Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > I, too, have known people like \*\*Biggirl \*\*mentioned. > > I have always though “Bravely Fighting” meant dealing with it with dignity. Went through the treatments, dealt with the side effects and **still stayed positive, likable people**. Some of the treatments are frightening simply by being as unpleasant as I can imagine. So if we’re angry and upset we’re cowards? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bravely-fighting-illness-disease/767229/25 "2016-09-30T20:12:56Z")
It does require courage to stand in against the odds. The concept may be misapplied at times, but when someone is faced with withstanding treatments that will worsen their condition with only a slim chance of recovery it does take fortitude to carry on instead of giving up. It’s not always courage, some even lack the courage to give up against hopeless odds, leaving their family and friends to watch as the die most slowly and painfully just to fulfill some irrational belief. But when one is seriously ill and needs to become even more ill to have a chance to survive I don’t mind calling them brave. ---
**Author:** ![Helena330](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/helena330/32/531_2.png) [@Helena330](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helena330)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bravely-fighting-illness-disease/767229/26 "2016-09-30T20:27:07Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > It does require courage to stand in against the odds. The concept may be misapplied at times, but when someone is faced with withstanding treatments that will worsen their condition with only a slim chance of recovery it does take fortitude to carry on instead of giving up. It’s not always courage, some even lack the courage to give up against hopeless odds, leaving their family and friends to watch as the die most slowly and painfully just to fulfill some irrational belief. **But when one is seriously ill and needs to become even more ill to have a chance to survive I don’t mind calling them brave.** What if they mind being _called_ brave? I don’t mean to be bitchy, but I don’t think people are understanding. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bravely-fighting-illness-disease/767229/27 "2016-09-30T20:31:41Z")
> [@Helena330](#): > > What if they mind being _called_ brave? > > I don’t mean to be bitchy, but I don’t think people are understanding. I don’t think I’d say it right to them. It’s my opinion of what they are doing. I don’t really know what I’d say to such a person in the circumstances but I hope I’d stay on the optimistic side and not bring up bravery, it would only serve to focus on what they have to endure. I’m more likely to try to distract them than even mention their problems. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bravely-fighting-illness-disease/767229/28 "2016-09-30T20:37:37Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > Have you ever known anyone who was battling cancer? > > I mean like, you can want to live. Everyone wants to live. But there is actual hard work, pain and suffering involved in the process of continuing to live once you have been diagnosed. And sometimes, enough denial to turn the Sahara into rice paddies… ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bravely-fighting-illness-disease/767229/29 "2016-09-30T20:40:19Z")
I never told my friend I thought she was brave. I believe, profoundly, that she was. I think I can see your points, **Helena** and **Maggie**. If people were inclined to walk up to me and pat my hand and say “you’re so brave” in a melancholy way, I might shortly be tempted to clock them one in the kisser. I get it sort of sideways with the neurological issues I deal with. People are always walking up and proposing either some mundane remedy that was the first thing I tried on the first day, or some folk remedy. I know they mean well, but I want to scream on some days. As far as what my friend and I talked about, I told her early on that we would discuss whatever she wanted to discuss. We did talk about her, and her disease sometimes. Sometimes she wanted to know, as far as I can tell, that there was a world outside of the disease and we talked about other things. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bravely-fighting-illness-disease/767229/30 "2016-09-30T21:08:09Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > But I think there also needs to be some voluntary aspect to it. > > Imagine you’re in a battle and you run away while trying to avoid people shooting at you from all sides. That’s pretty dangerous and frightening but not brave - you’re doing it because remaining at the front is even more dangerous and frightening. > > So if you’re deadly ill and your only hope is to undergo some extremely unpleasant treatment, that’s dangerous and frightening, but many people find dying even more dangerous and frightening so they elect for it anyway. > > [Of course this is not to compare people fighting illness to people running away from battle. This is only to make a very limited point that doing something that is dangerous and frightening is not necessarily brave.] Apparently, you missed the whole portion of my post that dealt with bravery meaning overcoming the fear and not letting the fear overcome you. Even the Mandela quote spoke directly to that. ---
**Author:** ![rsat3acr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a3d4f5/32.png) [@rsat3acr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rsat3acr)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bravely-fighting-illness-disease/767229/31 "2016-09-30T22:36:37Z")
I guess it varies from person to person. In regards to cancer I say that I endured the treatments, if someone else says they fought it, that is fine by me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bravely-fighting-illness-disease/767229.md?page=1)