# Brazil, ethanol and...the future?

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil-ethanol-and-the-future/336578>\
**Category:** Great Debates\
**Created:** [December 21, 2005, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil-ethanol-and-the-future/336578 "2005-12-21T03:51:30Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 2\
**Page:** 2

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**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\
**Post date:** [December 24, 2005, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil-ethanol-and-the-future/336578/21 "2005-12-24T05:28:09Z")

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> [@smiling bandit](#):
>
> There are a number of problkems with biodiesel or ethanol corn, some of which are structural (collection would be absurdly expensive), some of which are environmental.

The local grain elevator co-op collects the corn and distributes it to the local ethanol plant, or in the case of the cite I gave earlier, the plant buys directly from the farmer. No different than taking the grain to market, it just doesn’t travel as far.

As far as environmental concerns, I cannot think there would be more concern about fermenting corn vs. the refineries that litter the coasts of the US. I;d like to hear what to concerns are.

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**Author:** ![Citizen\_Bob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@Citizen\_Bob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Citizen_Bob)\
**Post date:** [December 24, 2005, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil-ethanol-and-the-future/336578/22 "2005-12-24T18:09:59Z")

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> [@xtisme](#):
>
> Was watching a show on the History Channel tonight where they were touting Brazil and its flex fuel cars and ethanol production. They called it ‘The Brazilian Energy Miricle’. I was wondering if this is perhaps the wave of the future…or if there are downsides (or hidden costs or whatever) not shown on the show. Could this replace or at least seriously augment energy needs in America? In Europe?
> 
> -XT

IMHO, it’s not a permanent alternative for fuel. You know where the energy from ethanol comes from… the millions of years of Solar Energy generated (via fainforest) into its fertile soil. As the rainforest gets plowed under, the plants used for ethanol have enormous resources to tap. However, eventually, the soil loses potency and is no better than placing solar panels out over the whole place. If you are the best Env Scientist, you run across the limitation that Carbon/Nitrogen fixing only replentishes proportional to the plants on remaining land and the amount of solar energy reaching an area over a certain time… Not to mention Cecil’s note of the 70% inefficiency of the process.

There’s certainly no miracle.

It may indeed be a massive source of short-term fuel as we continue to depend on combustion for energy and don’t mind depleating more rainforest & wildlife to sustain that industry. If that’s ok with you, then plow away – for 50 years or so.

[Slight Hijack]  
Hydrogen is not an alternative fuel, only an alternative energy storage… so my money is still on collecting energy from concenrtated unstable isotopes and (future, please please please!) Fusion.

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