# Brazil84 doesn't get what's wrong with the claim that majorities of sub-saharan africans are retards **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 25, 2013, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-doesnt-get-whats-wrong-with-the-claim-that-majorities-of-sub-saharan-africans-are-retards/672198 "2013-10-25T11:29:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![sylmar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b782af/32.png) [@sylmar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sylmar)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2013, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-doesnt-get-whats-wrong-with-the-claim-that-majorities-of-sub-saharan-africans-are-retards/672198/261 "2013-10-30T16:28:28Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Haha, that’s it try to find an excuse to run away. > [@magellan01](#): > > Bu thanks for throwing in the aside to the crowd, looking for strength. There is no surer sign of a weak mind. So, thanks for including it, as unsurprising as it was. > [@magellan01](#): > > Rally those people around you, weak one… Damn Gelly, you’re either a really creepy old fart or a seriously maladjusted Jr. High kid… Are you planning on meeting Karrius out by the bike rack? Can you make it that far without tripping over the size of your imaginary dick? Helpful Hint- Being addressed as Dick-head does not mean you’ve convinced people your package is the same size as your cranium, just that your thought process is surmised to be, at best, equivalent. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2013, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-doesnt-get-whats-wrong-with-the-claim-that-majorities-of-sub-saharan-africans-are-retards/672198/262 "2013-10-30T16:29:55Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > And I haven’t come to any conclusion at all- I’ve largely just pointed out the weakness in their claims. Those claims are fundamentally set upon the idea that the disparate outcomes we see now, which are different than the disparate outcomes from 50 or 100 years ago (and those are different from the more distant past, and so on), just happen to perfectly reflect some sort of natural hierarchy. So when the Irish, or the Chines, or the Jews had lower test scores, or were in a worse economic situation on average, or more likely to be involved in crime, that was because of society and oppression. But now everything’s hunky-dory- and any groups that have lower test scores or other disparate, negative outcomes, are only in that position because of innate inferiority (on average) in some trait or another. They are also set upon the idea that those “nurture” factors can be controlled for in studies, via proxies like parents’ level of education, school quality, or income. There’s no reason to think that should be the case, but they cling to the idea tenaciously. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2013, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-doesnt-get-whats-wrong-with-the-claim-that-majorities-of-sub-saharan-africans-are-retards/672198/263 "2013-10-30T17:39:42Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > For starters, do you agree with his assertion that I post the “exact same cites in every thread?” For starters, I really don’t give a shit either way. You might have noticed this by my not answering this for you the first time you asked. This thread is for mocking you and your stupidity, not for playing your semantic debating games, or rather the semantic games you play to try to cover up your inability to debate. > [@](#): > > Another possibility is that I prefer not to engage with people who strawman; who weasel; and so forth. It’s not like these kinds of tactics are incredibly rare. I’ll have to steal a line from **New Carlson** and tell you it’s very meta of you to have put yourself on your own ignore list. > [@](#): > > You yourself attempted to strawman me a while back but disappeared when I called you out on it. What in god’s name are you talking about little man? I assure you I’ve never disappeared as a result of you ‘calling me out’ on anything. Or is this just your delusional excuse to yourself for why you haven’t banninated me? > [@Guy Rotting](#): > > Remember when I said he seizes on tiny semantic arguments in hopes of validating the 99% of his argument that has been shown to be idiotic? This is the sort of thing I meant. > > Go on, **Dissonance** - get yourself ignored. You’ll feel better for it. It remains a mystery to me why Brazilnut hasn’t banninated me already. Virtually every interaction I’ve had with him has involved me telling him how full of shit he is, and when in the pit directly insulting him. I’ve mocked his blog, his delusional mental state, his (in)ability to do what passes for debating from him and insulted him here for _years_. I figure he must have a masochistic streak hidden deep down or something; but perhaps I’ll finally make the cut. ---
**Author:** ![Not\_Carlson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc79bd/32.png) [@Not\_Carlson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Not_Carlson)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2013, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-doesnt-get-whats-wrong-with-the-claim-that-majorities-of-sub-saharan-africans-are-retards/672198/264 "2013-10-30T17:57:37Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Lol, no. Are you saying that I have insisted on misrepresenting somebody’s position? My own position? Two for two! Now you’re facing in the right direction! The light may be dazzling at first, but do not turn away. It is the dawn of a new horizon. \*Walk toward the light! \* . . . OK, so I’m being a pedantic jerk. Mostly because I think your a massive wanker. But yes, you are consistently and deliberately misrepresenting people, yourself included. If you’re not just trolling, you might do well to stop and think to yourself “could I possibly be wrong about something? About _everything?_ Could my interpretations of what I see and hear and read perhaps be totally screwed up!?” Just as a thought experiment. ---
**Author:** ![sylmar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b782af/32.png) [@sylmar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sylmar)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2013, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-doesnt-get-whats-wrong-with-the-claim-that-majorities-of-sub-saharan-africans-are-retards/672198/265 "2013-10-30T18:02:08Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > It remains a mystery to me why Brazilnut hasn’t banninated me already. Virtually every interaction I’ve had with him has involved me telling him how full of shit he is, and when in the pit directly insulting him. I’ve mocked his blog, his delusional mental state, his (in)ability to do what passes for debating from him and insulted him here for _years_. I figure he must have a masochistic streak hidden deep down or something; but perhaps I’ll finally make the cut. Maybe if you sacrificed a chicken and used the blood to paint symbols on your monitor to ward off really stupid spirits ? You’ll have to ad-lib what they look like, most I’ve seen deal with evil ones… ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2013, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-doesnt-get-whats-wrong-with-the-claim-that-majorities-of-sub-saharan-africans-are-retards/672198/266 "2013-10-30T18:06:19Z")
> [@sylmar](#): > > Maybe if you sacrificed a chicken and used the blood to paint symbols on your monitor to ward off really stupid spirits ? > > You’ll have to ad-lib what they look like, most I’ve seen deal with evil ones… But if the spirits are stupid, that means they’re illiterate and can’t read the symbols. ---
**Author:** ![sylmar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b782af/32.png) [@sylmar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sylmar)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2013, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-doesnt-get-whats-wrong-with-the-claim-that-majorities-of-sub-saharan-africans-are-retards/672198/267 "2013-10-30T20:05:13Z")
> [@shambler pat](#): > > But if the spirits are stupid, that means they’re illiterate and can’t read the symbols. I thought that was only if they were Sub-Saharan African evil spirits? ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2013, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-doesnt-get-whats-wrong-with-the-claim-that-majorities-of-sub-saharan-africans-are-retards/672198/268 "2013-10-30T20:41:19Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Nothing would work. There’s be no system of government at all. No justice, no defense, no sanitation, no roads, nothing. > > Look at downtown Gabarone in Google Street View. It’s a functioning city. The lines are painted straight on the roads. People who seem to be able to dress themselves are walking around and waiting for buses and carrying parasols. There’s a Shell station advertising “V-Power” gas, just like they do here. People are driving well-maintained cars ( **almost all the cars are white, for some reason.** \*) It looks pretty much like any city anywhere. You’d have none of that. A nation of mentally retarded people could not build an office building or run an electrical grid. \*\*\*\*\*That is actually a visible sign of intelligence. White/light colored cars normally prevail in hot, sunny climates, for as we all know know lighter colors absorbs less light that the darker ones, thus making them literally cooler when you get back in them after leaving them parked in the hot sun for some time. Which in turn makes your AC more efficient – and even if you don’t have one, the inside of your car will still be noticeably cooler when you get back in. [**A black car heats up faster than an identical white car.**](http://mythbustersresults.com/episode38) ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2013, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-doesnt-get-whats-wrong-with-the-claim-that-majorities-of-sub-saharan-africans-are-retards/672198/269 "2013-10-30T21:12:00Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The supposed sprinting advantage is not so clearly innate as you might think. And even if it is innate, only at the highest echelons are the statistical differences so stark. Assuming it is so, if the very very best genes for sprinting happen to occur more often in people of west african descent, this says little about average people or even the population as a whole. Olympic sprinters may be more likely to be black, but at the high school level (for example), we see race-winners of every background. It does appear to be innate. But yes, it only shows itself clearly at the elite levels: World class sprinters and the speed positions in football. We agree that it says nothing about the average speed of the people making up any population. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > And these differences may well exist, and they may well be genetic. I have never denied this possibility. I have simply asked for decent evidence, which must include the genes. Not just for good science (though that’s reason enough), but because the history of such claims has been so closely associated with brutal repression. I understand that. And I think that is a big part of the problem with these threads. You seem to hold the basic position I do, i.e., that these differences may very well exist, but the fear of this leading to some future repression causes some to raise the burden of proof for Chen and Chief Pendant to a ridiculous height. And if they cannot provide it, and still hold to their position, they are quickly and repeatedly called racists. Maybe not be you, but by many who argue against them. I think this is not a small deal. On a board where a majority of the board is left-leaning, the mere _potential_ that these findings, if they are true, _may_ lead to some future expression of racism puts the crowd in a tizzy. That quickly turns the crowd into a mob and it is simply in attack mode. At which point, rezoned debate stops and it becomes a contest on who can insult the racists most cleverly, within the rules, of course. And once it makes it to the pit it’s open season. A perfect example is the exchange I’ve had with this Karrius character. She feels very comfortable making the worst claims about **brazil84** (who, as I’ve said, I really don’t know much about). When I ask her to point to the actual statement and positions he’s put forth that she thinks warrants her accusations, she puts her head in the sand. Hell, given the tenor of the thread, when I went back and looked at what he said in the GD thread, I was, quite frankly, surprised. I expected to find some pretty ugly stuff. But I found quite the opposite. But it doesn’t really matter, because the Open for Hunting sign had already been raised. So, she felt she could attribute the worst to him (and then to me) with impunity. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I don’t think I’ve characterized **CP** as racist. I haven’t interacted with **Chen** much, because he doesn’t really interact… he tends to just buzz by to drop some “black people are inferior” links and then leaves. I don’t mean to imply that you, personally, had. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2013, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-doesnt-get-whats-wrong-with-the-claim-that-majorities-of-sub-saharan-africans-are-retards/672198/270 "2013-10-30T21:25:29Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > As much as it pains me to support **magellan** (and believe me, it pains me), the population segment that is being characterized as having mentally-disabled-level IQ is subsaharan Africans, not African-Americans. I agree that putting AAs in the middle position between that 70IQ SSA segment and the 100IQ “normal white person” segment is a false equivalence, but it’s not that 85IQ AA segment that ends up being regarded as “retarded” if we believe IQs mean anything across cultural lines. > > So **magellan** is right (and this may be the only time you ever see that phrase attributed to me in sincerity) that **brazil84** isn’t saying that African-Americans have 70IQ. It’s SSAs he’s claiming that about. Hmmm. Very unexpected. But much appreciated. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2013, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-doesnt-get-whats-wrong-with-the-claim-that-majorities-of-sub-saharan-africans-are-retards/672198/271 "2013-10-30T21:26:50Z")
> [@sylmar](#): > > Maybe if you sacrificed a chicken and used the blood to paint symbols on your monitor to ward off really stupid spirits ? In that case, perhaps you should offer your blood for the exercise. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-doesnt-get-whats-wrong-with-the-claim-that-majorities-of-sub-saharan-africans-are-retards/672198/272 "2013-10-31T01:44:36Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Please define “reasonably smart” and show proof of your claim. 1. The normal distribution of intelligence, which finds the great majority of people near average intelligence. 2. I refuse to show proof of something so stupidly obvious and call upon your Rule of Debate 4a, which states that asking for cites is only appropriate where a person can be reasonably skeptical. > [@](#): > > Since you use the phrase “start to fall apart,” can I take it you agree that there is some average national IQ where one would expect things to be functional but functioning poorly? Yes, and I’d guess it to be at about 95, but it’s purely conjecture because there is no such place. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-doesnt-get-whats-wrong-with-the-claim-that-majorities-of-sub-saharan-africans-are-retards/672198/273 "2013-10-31T02:40:46Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Yes, and I’d guess it to be at about 95, but it’s purely conjecture because there is no such place. 😕 [Yes there is, and it’s a disaster zone.](https://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Capitol+building+washington+dc&aq=&sll=38.893127,-77.017637&sspn=0.057451,0.132093&vpsrc=6&t=h&ie=UTF8&hq=Capitol+building&hnear=Washington,+District+of+Columbia&fll=38.886991,-77.00841&fspn=0.007182,0.016512&st=111749203982896946334&rq=1&ev=zi&split=1&ll=38.889839,-77.007878&spn=0.007182,0.016512&z=17&layer=c&cbll=38.889839,-77.007878&cbp=12,0,,0,0&photoid=po-85211719) ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-doesnt-get-whats-wrong-with-the-claim-that-majorities-of-sub-saharan-africans-are-retards/672198/274 "2013-10-31T02:48:39Z")
I was referring to COUNTRIES, not mental institutions. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-doesnt-get-whats-wrong-with-the-claim-that-majorities-of-sub-saharan-africans-are-retards/672198/275 "2013-10-31T02:50:12Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I was referring to COUNTRIES, not mental institutions. No, no, I was supporting your point: once the IQ drops much below 95, things completely fall apart. We got rock-solid evidence. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-doesnt-get-whats-wrong-with-the-claim-that-majorities-of-sub-saharan-africans-are-retards/672198/276 "2013-10-31T08:08:33Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > 1. The normal distribution of intelligence, which finds the great majority of people near average intelligence. > > 2. I refuse to show proof of something so stupidly obvious and call upon your Rule of Debate 4a, which states that asking for cites is only appropriate where a person can be reasonably skeptical. Lol, that’s not what the rule says – all that’s necessary is a representation that the person is seriously skeptical. And I hereby represent that I am seriously skeptical of your claim. Please prove it. Also, are you claiming that the people in Botswana run their own infrastructure? Also, what did you mean by “normalized IQ” when you asserted that “there are no countries in the world where the normalized IQ isn’t 100”? ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-doesnt-get-whats-wrong-with-the-claim-that-majorities-of-sub-saharan-africans-are-retards/672198/277 "2013-10-31T08:10:24Z")
> [@Not\_Carlson](#): > > But yes, you are consistently and deliberately misrepresenting people, yourself included. Please show me two instances where I deliberately misrepresented another person and two instances where I deliberately misrepresented myself. Please provide links and quotes. TIA. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-doesnt-get-whats-wrong-with-the-claim-that-majorities-of-sub-saharan-africans-are-retards/672198/278 "2013-10-31T08:38:42Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > For starters, I really don’t give a shit either way. i.e. you have no interest at all in looking at evidence which might show you are wrong. > [@](#): > > What in god’s name are you talking about little man? I assure you I’ve never disappeared as a result of you ‘calling me out’ on anything. Lol, apparently you are such a big man (or a big girl) that you cannot remember your pathetic attempt to strawman me. I imagine it’s because intellectual dishonesty is such an ingrained habit for you that you do it constantly without much thought. Anyway, only you know why you disappeared. Maybe it’s because you decided it was time to stuff your face with nachos, big man. But the fact of the matter that a few months back you misrepresented my position, I challenged you on it, and you disappeared. > [@](#): > > It remains a mystery to me why Brazilnut hasn’t banninated me already Perhaps you were saved by your doughnuts, big man. See, if someone misrepresents my position and I challenge them and they disappear, I usually just let it go rather than put them on my shit list. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-doesnt-get-whats-wrong-with-the-claim-that-majorities-of-sub-saharan-africans-are-retards/672198/279 "2013-10-31T09:16:53Z")
Winning! ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-doesnt-get-whats-wrong-with-the-claim-that-majorities-of-sub-saharan-africans-are-retards/672198/280 "2013-10-31T09:59:31Z")
Africans are dumb, but it’s not their fault. The trickster god Anansi stole all their wisdom and put it in a pot at the top of a tree. What an asshole. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-doesnt-get-whats-wrong-with-the-claim-that-majorities-of-sub-saharan-africans-are-retards/672198.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-doesnt-get-whats-wrong-with-the-claim-that-majorities-of-sub-saharan-africans-are-retards/672198.md?page=15)