# Brazil84 doesn't get what's wrong with the claim that majorities of sub-saharan africans are retards **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 25, 2013, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-doesnt-get-whats-wrong-with-the-claim-that-majorities-of-sub-saharan-africans-are-retards/672198 "2013-10-25T11:29:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2013, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-doesnt-get-whats-wrong-with-the-claim-that-majorities-of-sub-saharan-africans-are-retards/672198/341 "2013-11-01T14:04:52Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > We disagree on whether things called races exist. Bullshit and almost a straw man. No non-intelligent person claims _sociological_ or even sociologically-driven phenotypic races don’t exist. So what? That’s not biology. That’s sociology. And sociologically driven partitioning of people IS racism. That’s almost the bloody definition. No non-intelligent person claims _genotypic_ or biologic races do exist. You continue to dance around the issue that biologically, there is no actual disagreement. Biologically, you can’t meaningfully partition people this way for, at this point, incredibly well established reasons. The only effective reason to conflate sociological and biological notions of race is in support of racism. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2013, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-doesnt-get-whats-wrong-with-the-claim-that-majorities-of-sub-saharan-africans-are-retards/672198/342 "2013-11-01T14:09:55Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > No non-intelligent person claims _genotypic_ or biologic races do exist. I think you mean the reverse of this. Those double negatives can get confusing. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2013, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-doesnt-get-whats-wrong-with-the-claim-that-majorities-of-sub-saharan-africans-are-retards/672198/343 "2013-11-01T14:12:13Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I think you mean the reverse of this. Those double negatives can get confusing. No, I meant what I wrote and even double checked it. Reasonably intelligent people know biologic/genotypic races do not exist. Conversely non-intelligent people believe biologic/genotypic races do exist. Yes, double negatives can get confusing. ETA: Especially when they’re triple negatives (no, non, do not). ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2013, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-doesnt-get-whats-wrong-with-the-claim-that-majorities-of-sub-saharan-africans-are-retards/672198/344 "2013-11-01T14:14:42Z")
Ok, but if “no non-intelligent person” claims this, that means only intelligent people make that claim (the claim being “genotypic or biological races do exist”. “Do”, not “do not”- if it were “do not”, it would make perfect sense (or if it were “no intelligent person” instead of “no non-intelligent person”). So I still think you meant the reverse. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2013, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-doesnt-get-whats-wrong-with-the-claim-that-majorities-of-sub-saharan-africans-are-retards/672198/345 "2013-11-01T14:16:02Z")
I think you left out the “not” in “do not”. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2013, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-doesnt-get-whats-wrong-with-the-claim-that-majorities-of-sub-saharan-africans-are-retards/672198/346 "2013-11-01T14:16:38Z")
Strunk and White must be spinning in their graves right about now. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2013, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-doesnt-get-whats-wrong-with-the-claim-that-majorities-of-sub-saharan-africans-are-retards/672198/347 "2013-11-01T14:31:17Z")
> [@Guy Rotting](#): > > Strunk and White must be spinning in their graves right about now. Ayup. I have Strunk and White on my desk, actually. White was known for over-emphasizing his rules of style, though, and for breaking his own rules from time to time. It just shows that writing at a high level involves knowing when to violate conventional rules of style and also knowing not to do it too often. Well, I think everybody got my gist, but I guess there’s an extra “non” in there or an extra “not” was needed. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2013, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-doesnt-get-whats-wrong-with-the-claim-that-majorities-of-sub-saharan-africans-are-retards/672198/348 "2013-11-01T14:33:16Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > Well, I think everybody got my gist, but I guess there’s an extra “non” in there or an extra “not” was needed. I got your gist. Sorry for nitpicking. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2013, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-doesnt-get-whats-wrong-with-the-claim-that-majorities-of-sub-saharan-africans-are-retards/672198/349 "2013-11-01T22:18:21Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > I’m not sure what your point is here. You asserted an opinion and then denied having an opinion. I asked if you were abandoning your earlier opinion and you ignored my question. You honestly think this is what happened, don’t you? And you wonder why people call you delusional. I’ll say it again slowly for you, as I’m sure you actually will read this. You are delusional. I have been calling you delusional for years. I am still calling you delusional. I have not abandoned this opinion. I have never denied having this opinion, quite the opposite I have tried to make it as abundantly clear to you as possible. It is not “my earlier opinion”. It has always been my opinion. Your question has absolutely no relevance to my opinion that you are delusional. I ignored your question because it is pointless and I don’t have an opinion on your question one way or the other. Here’s the distinction you seem to be missing: your question and my opinion of your deficient mental state are unrelated to each other. > [@](#): > > You didn’t ask me to supply a link; what you mainly did is insist that you did not disappear because of my challenge. And you think SSA has the average IQ of a retarded person.:rolleyes: I see, I failed to ask for a link in the proper Brazilnut format of ‘provide me with 3 examples of x where I did y’ so you didn’t understand that when I told you I had no idea what you were talking about three times it never occurred to you to actually clarify it by telling me what the fuck you were talking about. > [@](#): > > Just for kicks, I will post a link to where you strawmanned me: > > [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16463133&postcount=352) > > Of course I never said such a thing and I challenged you: You really were beaten about the head with the idiot stick, weren’t you? You said such a thing right there in the quoted post. And again, I was calling your argument specious. That’s not a straw man. It’s calling your argument specious. And not even you can be so stupid to not know why I never responded to you, or have you banninated mods here as well? [**Moderating** : Drop it right now or you’ll get a warning.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16463856&postcount=357) It doesn’t even take an IQ of 75 to figure out why I might have dropped it right then. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2013, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-doesnt-get-whats-wrong-with-the-claim-that-majorities-of-sub-saharan-africans-are-retards/672198/350 "2013-11-01T22:33:27Z")
I’m just waiting for the moment when **Brazil** says to **RickJay** “Goodbye, Liar” and then finds out you can’t put moderators on your ignore list. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2013, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-doesnt-get-whats-wrong-with-the-claim-that-majorities-of-sub-saharan-africans-are-retards/672198/351 "2013-11-02T02:09:21Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > An appeal to emotion, as I said. Nature made Asians shorter of stature. Pointing that our is not racist. Using that info, as the software company I mentioned did, is not racist. Period. Except that “asian” _does not exist outside of our own societal assumptions_. In terms of genetics and biology, “asian” (or “black” or “white” or most of the other classic races) _does not exist_. It’s complete bullshit. > [@](#): > > We disagree on whether things called races exist. I’m sorry, did I _ever_ deny race as a sociological concept? But that’s all it is. There’s nothing more to it. Anything else is drawing lines with no actual biological basis. Haplotypes exist. Genetic markers exist. But _no_ racist _ever_ deal with them. Instead, they (and you) deal with _races_. The outdated, social construct which has no actual biological grounding. > [@](#): > > Just because lines cannot be drawn with absolute clarity does not mean that drawing them as best one can is not meaningful. No, but what we’re dealing with here is a situation where drawing the line _anywhere_ completely distorts the data. Hell, even _you_ should be able to tell how examining the results of a group that is isolated sociologically (rather than genetically) would lead to adverse results for that group. > [@](#): > > On the one hand we have actual identifiable groups sharing identifiable traits that align with the concept we have of “race”. And yet, the genetic diversity for “black” is greater than _literally everything else_. Somehow, this is not an issue for your theory. If I were to hazard a guess, it’d be that this is because your theory is intellectually bankrupt pseudoscientific _bullshit_. > [@](#): > > On the other hand we have people who don’t want that to be the case and have determined that the best way to make the differences between the races meaningless and invisible is to simply wave the politically correct wand and say, “Presto: there are no races.” Neat trick. And yet, somehow, the debate is pretty much over within genetic circles. There are no big discussions about race as people like you would define it. In particular, the lines you would draw are long since discarded as completely useless. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2013, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-doesnt-get-whats-wrong-with-the-claim-that-majorities-of-sub-saharan-africans-are-retards/672198/352 "2013-11-02T02:19:01Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > I’m just waiting for the moment when **Brazil** says to **RickJay** “Goodbye, Liar” and then finds out you can’t put moderators on your ignore list. Give him time. He’ll get there. Sooner or later. It’s where his stupidity will inevitably lead him. [I am your father, Luke] Where it _must_ lead him. What a maroon… [apologies to Bugs Bunny, and Darth Vader]. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2013, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-doesnt-get-whats-wrong-with-the-claim-that-majorities-of-sub-saharan-africans-are-retards/672198/353 "2013-11-02T02:29:39Z")
Here’s hoping it’s Marley, because I know Marley is the type to laugh at him about it. ---
**Author:** ![sylmar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b782af/32.png) [@sylmar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sylmar)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2013, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-doesnt-get-whats-wrong-with-the-claim-that-majorities-of-sub-saharan-africans-are-retards/672198/354 "2013-11-02T10:40:12Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Here’s hoping it’s Marley, because I know Marley is the type to laugh at him about it. My vote is for Miller. I don’t want laughter, I want focused, economical savaging… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2013, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-doesnt-get-whats-wrong-with-the-claim-that-majorities-of-sub-saharan-africans-are-retards/672198/355 "2013-11-02T10:56:17Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > I’m just waiting for the moment when **Brazil** says to **RickJay** “Goodbye, Liar” and then finds out you can’t put moderators on your ignore list. You can when it’s a pretend “ignore list” that only exists in your own little pointed head. He’s also free to put “Charter Member” on a Post-it note taped to his nipple, and to firmly believe that his Spider-Man Underoos grant him the ability to walk on walls. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2013, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-doesnt-get-whats-wrong-with-the-claim-that-majorities-of-sub-saharan-africans-are-retards/672198/356 "2013-11-02T11:43:29Z")
Oh, ye of little faith. Of course, this scenario has [already played out](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16559965&postcount=32). **Colibri** ’s response was both factual and a little wistful. > [@Honestly, Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/honestly-honesty/665289/57): > > Incidentally, **brazil84** can’t put me on ignore because I’m a mod. The downside of this is that I can’t put him on ignore either. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2013, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-doesnt-get-whats-wrong-with-the-claim-that-majorities-of-sub-saharan-africans-are-retards/672198/357 "2013-11-02T16:21:11Z")
> [@sylmar](#): > > My vote is for Miller. I don’t want laughter, I want focused, economical savaging… 😉 +1, LOL and throwing shit in quarries and such… [sub]Ok, we _do_ need a ‘like’ button. Can I change my vote in the ATMB thread from a few months ago on this subject? BTW, can we also throw **Bo** into the quarry in celebration?[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2013, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-doesnt-get-whats-wrong-with-the-claim-that-majorities-of-sub-saharan-africans-are-retards/672198/358 "2013-11-04T10:12:21Z")
Well fuck, we may have a statement damn near as dumb as the one the OP was complaining about. And from the same thread! > [@From a purely genetic standpoint, how does it make sense that the average IQ of African Ams is 85?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/from-a-purely-genetic-standpoint-how-does-it-make-sense-that-the-average-iq-of-african-ams-is-85/672041/347): > > I use the term “black” or “white” or “asian” to refer to Self-Identified Race/Ethnicity, as the categories are laid out by the US Federal government. That is, when talking about genetic race, what he uses to delineate groups is self-identification. Which, as we all know, is such a great genetic marker. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-doesnt-get-whats-wrong-with-the-claim-that-majorities-of-sub-saharan-africans-are-retards/672198.md?page=17)