# Brazil84 doesn't get what's wrong with the claim that majorities of sub-saharan africans are retards **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 25, 2013, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-doesnt-get-whats-wrong-with-the-claim-that-majorities-of-sub-saharan-africans-are-retards/672198 "2013-10-25T11:29:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2013, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-doesnt-get-whats-wrong-with-the-claim-that-majorities-of-sub-saharan-africans-are-retards/672198/121 "2013-10-27T01:55:41Z")
> [@armedmonkey](#): > > [98](http://www.statisticbrain.com/countries-with-the-highest-lowest-average-iq/) > > Sub-saharan countries score lower on IQ tests, but I wonder if the [Flynn Effect](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect) is in play here. What I mean to say is that scoring high on an IQ test may be a cultural _skill_. Genetics, race, ethnicity, etc. need not come in to it, because the best explanation for the Flynn effect is that technological societies get more complicated as the years go by and people adapt to that. > > Look at a cereal box from 1900. It’ll say something like “Wheat is good for you!” and that’s it. Look at one from 2013 and it’s got nutrition labels talking about vitamins, serving size, and recommended daily allowances. That’s tables of data to process and it very well may have a word puzzle for the kids on the back. “Help Cap’n Crunch break the code!” or some such. > > Measuring IQ has its uses, but ( **Brazil84** , you need to pay attention to this) it’s less a measurement of intelligence than it is of skill. People in the 1930’s score about an 80 on IQ tests, as we measure it today. That’s functionally retarded. Down’s Syndrome territory. Obviously, they weren’t developmentally disabled and we’re not far enough removed for anything remotely genetic to happen. So what’s changed? > > What’s changed is the amount of information a human is subject to. And I think this is where the discrepancy in IQ between cultures lies. Right. I guess an average person from eastern Europe would be better than an avg person from anywhere else in the world when it comes to mathematics, algorithm and other logic based stuff. It would be due to the culture and also because of favorable conditions (favorable climate, less extreme poverty etc) ---
**Author:** ![Karrius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/71c47a/32.png) [@Karrius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Karrius)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2013, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-doesnt-get-whats-wrong-with-the-claim-that-majorities-of-sub-saharan-africans-are-retards/672198/122 "2013-10-27T03:48:19Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > My post has very little to do with **brazil** , with whom I have very little if any interaction; it has to do with you and your notion that people who you find offensive because of their positions don’t have the same right as you have to be heard. I love it when liberal douches like you reveal their true colors. Thanks for the laugh, and not letting me down. I think that people that constantly spew hate speech, and knowingly lie, over and over and over, to justify their hate speech are “being a jerk”. Do you think these people are _not_ being a jerk? Do you think that Der Trihs should totally be allowed to say whatever he wants in GD, or do you only complain when conservatives are insulted, and not minorities? That’s what I thought. You have the notion that conservatives shouldn’t be said bad things about, but it’s ok to say that non-whites are mentally retarded. I love it when conservatives douches like you reveal their true colors. Thanks for the laugh, and not letting me down. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2013, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-doesnt-get-whats-wrong-with-the-claim-that-majorities-of-sub-saharan-africans-are-retards/672198/123 "2013-10-27T04:22:50Z")
> [@truthSeeker2](#): > > I guess an average person from eastern Europe would be better than an avg person from anywhere else in the world when it comes to mathematics, algorithm and other logic based stuff. Not so. Africans are renowned for their natural algorithm. ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2013, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-doesnt-get-whats-wrong-with-the-claim-that-majorities-of-sub-saharan-africans-are-retards/672198/124 "2013-10-27T04:51:45Z")
IQ of south Asian nations is around 80. So we are borderline retards as well(not that we need the IQ tests to confirm to us the same). ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2013, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-doesnt-get-whats-wrong-with-the-claim-that-majorities-of-sub-saharan-africans-are-retards/672198/125 "2013-10-27T05:21:59Z")
> [@Karrius](#): > > Could one of the mods please explain to me why known white supremacists who post the same links every few months, over and over, and never admit that they are repeatedly posting lies, while continually arguing that non-whites are mentally retarded aren’t banned? > > Like, I literally just do not get it. One of the fundamental principles of the board is that we do not moderate points of view. A bad idea is best countered by a good idea, not by being suppressed. Plus, a lot of our posters seem to really enjoy arguing with bigots. Why should we deprive them of their fun? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2013, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-doesnt-get-whats-wrong-with-the-claim-that-majorities-of-sub-saharan-africans-are-retards/672198/126 "2013-10-27T05:52:52Z")
So anyway, Brazzy, you made it very clear that you think that illiteracy is a sign of low intelligence. > [@](#): > > **Brazil84** > Illiteracy is evidence of low intelligence. Anyway, as I pointed out this is as moronic as claiming that monolingualism, which is true of most Americans, Australians, Irishman, Britons, and Anglophone Canadians, is a sign of low intelligence. So, do you think that South African blacks, most of whom speak multiple languages are more intelligent that white Americans(most of whom only speak one)? Similarly, how many languages do you speak? If you disagree, then please explain your reasoning. Also, please do show the courage to reply. We all know that you’re a pathetic, lonely loser but it would be great if you could at least pretend otherwise. Thanks in advance. Edit: In case I’ve been Brazil banned, would someone who’s not mind doing their own version of this who’s not so he doesn’t have an excuse other than cowardice to justify avoiding the question. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2013, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-doesnt-get-whats-wrong-with-the-claim-that-majorities-of-sub-saharan-africans-are-retards/672198/127 "2013-10-27T09:06:18Z")
I would, but I’m part of the growing “People Smarter Than That Stupid Racist Ratfucker” club. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2013, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-doesnt-get-whats-wrong-with-the-claim-that-majorities-of-sub-saharan-africans-are-retards/672198/128 "2013-10-27T12:18:31Z")
> [@Karrius](#): > > I think that people that constantly spew hate speech, and knowingly lie, over and over and over, to justify their hate speech are “being a jerk”. Do you think these people are _not_ being a jerk? Yes, I do. BUt the question is, how do you know they are lying? And “knowingly lie” is redundant. Lying is knowingly relating an untruth. If you don’t know/believe it to be untrue, it is not a lie, it is simply a wrong statement. So, do you have some new device to determine who on the internet is lying, i.e., _knowingly_ relaying a falsehood? > [@Karrius](#): > > Do you think that Der Trihs should totally be allowed to say whatever he wants in GD, or do you only complain when conservatives are insulted, and not minorities? Yes, I do think Der Trihs should be able to say whatever he likes, within the rules. I have zero problem with him starting a thread saying the most hateful things about Christians or the military or Republicans or whoever. The problem I have with _that_ douche is that he injects his nonsense into all manner of GD threads as if his little stunted-growth asides are as well established as the laws of physics. > [@Karrius](#): > > That’s what I thought. Evidently, you’re not too good at the whole thinking thing then, huh? 😃 Also, as you might have noticed, there are many posters, on both sides of the political spectrum who have a problem with Der Trihs, so you may want to find a a more sympathetic douche bag to defend. > [@Karrius](#): > > You have the notion that conservatives shouldn’t be said bad things about, but it’s ok to say that non-whites are mentally retarded. I love it when conservatives douches like you reveal their true colors. Thanks for the laugh, and not letting me down. I hope you’re able to realize how wrong you are now. If not, I won’t be surprised. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2013, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-doesnt-get-whats-wrong-with-the-claim-that-majorities-of-sub-saharan-africans-are-retards/672198/129 "2013-10-27T13:25:55Z")
Brazil, my man Ibn isn’t sure if you saw this or not… > [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > So anyway, Brazzy, you made it very clear that you think that illiteracy is a sign of low intelligence. > > Anyway, as I pointed out this is as moronic as claiming that monolingualism, which is true of most Americans, Australians, Irishman, Britons, and Anglophone Canadians, is a sign of low intelligence. > > So, do you think that South African blacks, most of whom speak multiple languages are more intelligent that white Americans(most of whom only speak one)? > > Similarly, how many languages do you speak? > > If you disagree, then please explain your reasoning. > > Also, please do show the courage to reply. > > We all know that you’re a pathetic, lonely loser but it would be great if you could at least pretend otherwise. > > Thanks in advance. > > Edit: In case I’ve been Brazil banned, would someone who’s not mind doing their own version of this who’s not so he doesn’t have an excuse other than cowardice to justify avoiding the question. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2013, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-doesnt-get-whats-wrong-with-the-claim-that-majorities-of-sub-saharan-africans-are-retards/672198/130 "2013-10-27T13:35:12Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Or 21st century North Carolina, for that matter. North Carolina’s illiteracy rate is approximately equal to or slightly less than the national average. > [@](#): > > For the 2003 NAAL, the national direct estimate of the percentage of adults lacking BPLS is 14.5 percent. [http://nces.ed.gov/naal/estimates/overview.aspx](http://nces.ed.gov/naal/estimates/overview.aspx) If you go to [State and County Literacy Estimates - State Estimates](http://nces.ed.gov/naal/estimates/StateEstimates.aspx) and select North Carolina, 2003 (sorry, can’t direct link), you’ll find that the indirect measure of the percentage of adults in NC lacking BPLS (basic prose literacy skills) is 14%, with a 95% confidence of it being between 11% and 16.5%. > [@](#): > > SOURCE: U.S. Department of Education, Institute of Education Sciences, National Center for Education Statistics, 2003 National Assessment of Adult Literacy [http://nces.ed.gov/naal/estimates/StateEstimates.aspx](http://nces.ed.gov/naal/estimates/StateEstimates.aspx) ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2013, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-doesnt-get-whats-wrong-with-the-claim-that-majorities-of-sub-saharan-africans-are-retards/672198/131 "2013-10-27T14:15:38Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Brazil, my man Ibn isn’t sure if you saw this or not… He’s on my shit list so I don’t engage with him. The answer is no, I did not see it before and I did not read it now. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2013, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-doesnt-get-whats-wrong-with-the-claim-that-majorities-of-sub-saharan-africans-are-retards/672198/132 "2013-10-27T14:17:18Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > He’s on my shit list so I don’t engage with him. The answer is no, I did not see it before and I did not read it now. Why? Or _can’t_ you read??? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2013, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-doesnt-get-whats-wrong-with-the-claim-that-majorities-of-sub-saharan-africans-are-retards/672198/133 "2013-10-27T14:22:39Z")
> [@DarkDungeonDenizen](#): > > Why? Because **brazil84** is more than willfully ignorant, he actively seeks to perpetuate his ignorance. For him, a day without a new fact ignored is a wasted day. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2013, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-doesnt-get-whats-wrong-with-the-claim-that-majorities-of-sub-saharan-africans-are-retards/672198/134 "2013-10-27T14:31:16Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Because **brazil84** is more than willfully ignorant, he actively seeks to perpetuate his ignorance. For him, a day without a new fact ignored is a wasted day. So, he’s informationally illiterate. Makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2013, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-doesnt-get-whats-wrong-with-the-claim-that-majorities-of-sub-saharan-africans-are-retards/672198/135 "2013-10-27T14:46:25Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Nothing would work. There’s be no system of government at all. No justice, no defense, no sanitation, no roads, nothing. > > Look at downtown Gabarone in Google Street View. It’s a functioning city. The lines are painted straight on the roads. People who seem to be able to dress themselves are walking around and waiting for buses and carrying parasols. There’s a Shell station advertising “V-Power” gas, just like they do here. People are driving well-maintained cars (almost all the cars are white, for some reason.) It looks pretty much like any city anywhere. You’d have none of that. A nation of mentally retarded people could not build an office building or run an electrical grid. If every last person were mentally retarded, you might have a point. However, even in a country with an average IQ of 70, there will be a lot of people of high intelligence. Perhaps more interestingly, out of curiosity, I did a Google search to find out who actually built the electrical grid in Botswanna and found this on the first page: > [@](#): > > At 10:02 local time on February 27th, operation staff of the \*\*China \*\*National Electric Equipment Corporation (CNEEC) Botswana Project pressed the button for the last process and announced that the power plant had been successfully connected to the Botswana state grid on the first attempt. The project commissioning immediately entered a critical period of 15 days and the successful handover of Unit 1 could be expected soon. (my bolding) I also found this on the first page: > [@](#): > > Eltel’s USD 90 million turnkey electrification project provides access to electricity for 100 000 citizens in Botswana. > > The USD 90 000 000 rural electrification project in Botswana is now finalized. The project has been carried out by Eltel Networks TE AB, **Sweden** , as the main contractor (my bolding) So I have a strong feeling that much of the shiny infrastructure you are crowing about is actually the doing of Western and/or East Asian contractors. > [@](#): > > We’re now delving into the realm of the absurdly obvious, and your sincerity in asking “Gosh, why couldn’t a nation of retarded people work” is highly questionable. Perhaps the reason it’s absurdly obvious to you is that you are not thinking about it very carefully. For example, you don’t seem to have even considered the possibility that the shiny infrastructure in the capital city of one of the most advanced black African nations was built by foreigners. > [@](#): > > It’s hard to say since there are no countries in the world where the normalized IQ isn’t 100. So we have no examples. But I’d guess things would start to fall apart long before you got as low as 76. Just guessing, though. It seems your guess is pretty much just wild speculation and self-serving at that. But since you use the phrase “start to fall apart,” can I take it you agree that there is some average national IQ where one would expect things to be functional but functioning poorly? Also, are you saying that the average national IQs in all countries are equal? > [@](#): > > The fact that you don’t understand why the United States in the 1930s had people who on modern tests would have scored as being very stupid, and yet the USA then was a functioning country, says a lot. You don’t seem to understand anything about IQ tests at all. Well what exactly is it that I don’t understand? ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2013, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-doesnt-get-whats-wrong-with-the-claim-that-majorities-of-sub-saharan-africans-are-retards/672198/136 "2013-10-27T15:01:12Z")
> [@armedmonkey](#): > > Yes, you idiot. I _said so_. I must have missed it – can you point to the post where you specifically stated that the United States in the 1930s was far from non-functional? Also, can you please point to the post where you specifically stated that a particular cite indicated that the average IQ in the US in the 1930s was about 80? TIA. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2013, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-doesnt-get-whats-wrong-with-the-claim-that-majorities-of-sub-saharan-africans-are-retards/672198/137 "2013-10-27T15:02:30Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > The point being made is that someone of normal intelligence from the 1930s would score low on a _ **modern** _ IQ test due to the cultural changes and increase in knowledge. So you believe that improvements in nutrition and education (e.g. iodization of salt) played no role in any increase in IQs in the United States between the 1930s and the present? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2013, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-doesnt-get-whats-wrong-with-the-claim-that-majorities-of-sub-saharan-africans-are-retards/672198/138 "2013-10-27T15:04:48Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > If every last person were mentally retarded, you might have a point. However, even in a country with an average IQ of 70, there will be a lot of people of high intelligence. > > … > > Well what exactly is it that I don’t understand? I’m not sure you have that great a handle on statistics. ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2013, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-doesnt-get-whats-wrong-with-the-claim-that-majorities-of-sub-saharan-africans-are-retards/672198/139 "2013-10-27T15:08:42Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Also, are you saying that the average national IQs in all countries are equal? Yes, it is nearly equal. For ex. If a million poor kids from south asia are taken and raised in any host country, you will find their average IQ when they grow up will resemble the average IQ of the host country. Intelligence depends on factors like culture, literacy, extreme poverty, nutrition, climate etc. Comparing IQs of different races in useless. If you wanna do research on factors/genes related to high intelligence, then do a study on scientists, researchers, mathematicians, chess players etc versus the normal population. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2013, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-doesnt-get-whats-wrong-with-the-claim-that-majorities-of-sub-saharan-africans-are-retards/672198/140 "2013-10-27T15:31:17Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > So you believe that improvements in nutrition and education (**e.g. iodization of salt)** played no role in any increase in IQs in the United States between the 1930s and the present? Cognitive improvement, not native intelligence. If you’ve had a bad night’s sleep, has your actual IQ gone down? Or is that possible in your case? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-doesnt-get-whats-wrong-with-the-claim-that-majorities-of-sub-saharan-africans-are-retards/672198.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-doesnt-get-whats-wrong-with-the-claim-that-majorities-of-sub-saharan-africans-are-retards/672198.md?page=8)