# brazil84: preening, sexist, self-imortant, gynophobic douche **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 25, 2011, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-preening-sexist-self-imortant-gynophobic-douche/594046 "2011-08-25T15:57:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-preening-sexist-self-imortant-gynophobic-douche/594046/221 "2011-08-26T19:48:19Z")
> [@Norse](#): > > You’re good at… which of them? Sleeping, or… 😃 Why assume the choices are limited? ---
**Author:** ![Norse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a9adbd/32.png) [@Norse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Norse)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-preening-sexist-self-imortant-gynophobic-douche/594046/222 "2011-08-26T20:09:12Z")
Well, because she claimed to be good at “it”. Maybe it’s my (possible lack of) knowledge of English, but I interpreted that as one “it”, not two "it"s. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-preening-sexist-self-imortant-gynophobic-douche/594046/223 "2011-08-26T20:13:30Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > This thread is awash in whatever internet tough guys have instead of testosterone. Hemorrhoids? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-preening-sexist-self-imortant-gynophobic-douche/594046/224 "2011-08-26T20:24:31Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Honest question: why should we? I think you or I or **Dio** is free to assume, based on whatever evidence we deem valid, the vagueries of another person’s relationship. If I see a women being abused but goes back to her husband each time, I’m going to assume she has mental problems. **Dio** ’s doing the same based on **Brazil84** ’s description of his relationship with women. I think what you may be trying to say is that we should take people at their word by not interfering as if we were certain (for example if **Dio** tries to break up **Brazil84** ’s marriage, that would be wrong based on what little info he has), but that doesn’t hold true if we just want to throw snarky comments at him. You’re free to assume whatever you like. But in terms of who has the burden of proof for what position, in my view the default assumption is that an adult making legal choices for himself (or herself) is presumed to be acting competently, and it falls to the critic to adduce evidence to supoprt his claim. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-preening-sexist-self-imortant-gynophobic-douche/594046/225 "2011-08-26T20:25:59Z")
I deny that we need to presume any such thing. If I see abuse, I assume abuse. ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-preening-sexist-self-imortant-gynophobic-douche/594046/226 "2011-08-26T20:36:21Z")
> [@Infovore](#): > > Really? I must hang out with the wrong people, then. Most of the ones I know (even those who are in a traditional man-works, woman-stays-home-with-the-kids relationships) do not “wholeheartedly agree” with the idea that the man is the leader of the family/head of the household. This is an archaic notion. A marriage is a partnership. The partners might choose to divide the roles in more traditional ways, but I would be willing to wager that most families look at it more this way than “man as leader.” > > Me, I have a big problem with the idea that just because men have outies and women have innies, they get to be the boss. That’s the most asinine notion I’ve seen in awhile. If there’s even a “boss” (as in, person who makes most of the decisions to guide the family) I think it should be mutually agreed upon and be the more intelligent and better decision-making person, not the man by virtue of the fact that he was born with a penis. > > Ugh, this is a hot button for me. I don’t care how individual couples choose to conduct their relationships (as long as both are happy with the decision), but to extrapolate this to most couples…ugh. I didn’t grow up in the Fifties and I’d rather not go back there, thanks. If this was even true in the Fifties. I see it’s the “taking us back to the 50’s” line that is usually trotted out by, usually, liberal leaning persons. What the hell does that mean? It seems nothing more than a failed dig at the concept of gender roles within a marriage. Even though you might not like to admit this, generally speaking when persons are married they tend to perform certain gender specific roles. Usually, that means that women take care of the kids and the house while the man does all of the ‘dirty’ work. For example, men generally are tasked with keeping the car in good condition, doing yard work and deciding on how to invest money, while women are generally tasked with cooking, cleaning, buying food, taking care of the kids, paying bills and buying furniture or other cosmetic items for the home. These divisions hold up regardless of age. [Gallup](http://www.gallup.com/poll/106249/wives-still-laundry-men-yard-work.aspx) did a poll on this a few years back and found that this to be pretty true. Your contention that partners might choose to divide the roles in more traditional ways but that it’s that way by choice more than any idea stemming from traditional gender is, simply put, absurd. Those “traditional ways” are that way precisely because it’s assumed that men are the breadwinners and women are the caretakers. If I were to walk into, I’d say, 90% of married households in America, I’d find that the men typically do those things which are generally ascribed to men and women typically doing those things which are generally ascribed to women. You cannot separate how something is away from why it’s that way-- especially not when the way something is is linked to gender roles which are pretty well engraved into society. Just because you think something is ‘archaic’ doesn’t mean it is. Oh, and just so you know, Brazil said his wife works, though she doesn’t make as much as him (which is quite common in marriages, as men make more than their wife in approximately 78% of them). I just though you’d like to know that, since you seemed to be implying some kind of “stay-at-home-and-take-care-of-the-kids” idea for a woman (which is pretty much unfeasible these days as the cost of raising a family is generally more than what a man could make on his own). ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-preening-sexist-self-imortant-gynophobic-douche/594046/227 "2011-08-26T21:31:03Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > That’s how his marriage is (or how he wants it). What’s the problem? If a woman were to say “I want to be married to a man who makes all the decisions!”, would that be equally as bad or worthy of scorn or disdain? BZZT. Did you actually read the words? [QUOTE=brazil84] Mainly because it’s my preference and also because most girls prefer to be led, although many will not admit it and are not even aware of it themselves. [/quote] **brazil84** isn’t claiming that just A woman or HIS wife wants thing this way. His claim is that MOST women either secretly or openly want to be dominated by men. Why twist the words in this fashion? There may be “plenty” of women who want this kind of relationship, but those aren’t the words used by **brazil84**. His claim is that MOST women (actually, he uses ‘girls’ here), even if they don’t consciously know it, want to be in that sort of relationship and even appreciate it. That’s beyond paternalism. It’s patronizing to women and certainly misogynistic. ---
**Author:** ![Infovore](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infovore/32/420_2.png) [@Infovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Infovore)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-preening-sexist-self-imortant-gynophobic-douche/594046/228 "2011-08-26T21:33:28Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > I see it’s the “taking us back to the 50’s” line that is usually trotted out by, usually, liberal leaning persons. What the hell does that mean? It seems nothing more than a failed dig at the concept of gender roles within a marriage. Well, you’ll notice I did add “if it was even like that in the Fifties.” I don’t know. I wasn’t there. You’re right–it’s a stereotype. But I suspect it was a lot more common in the days before readily available birth control and the opportunities women have nowadays. > [@](#): > > Even though you might not like to admit this, generally speaking when persons are married they tend to perform certain gender specific roles. Usually, that means that women take care of the kids and the house while the man does all of the ‘dirty’ work. For example, men generally are tasked with keeping the car in good condition, doing yard work and deciding on how to invest money, Wait a sec. “Deciding how to invest money” is “dirty work”? While I can see that it might be fairly common for the men to take care of doing work that requires strength, lifting ability, or just generally getting dirty, I don’t see why it’s inherently more likely for the men to do the investment decisions, especially in this day and age where many women are as educated as men (or in many cases, more so). > [@](#): > > Your contention that partners might choose to divide the roles in more traditional ways but that it’s that way by choice more than any idea stemming from traditional gender is, simply put, absurd. Those “traditional ways” are that way precisely because it’s assumed that men are the breadwinners and women are the caretakers. If I were to walk into, I’d say, 90% of married households in America, I’d find that the men typically do those things which are generally ascribed to men and women typically doing those things which are generally ascribed to women. Maybe. I think your number is high for modern day families. > [@](#): > > You cannot separate how something is away from why it’s that way-- especially not when the way something is is linked to gender roles which are pretty well engraved into society. Just because you think something is ‘archaic’ doesn’t mean it is. But you’re mixing apples and oranges. I’ll give you that in many married couples, the men do things like take out the trash, clean the gutters, and change the car oil, and women do things like take primary responsibility for the kids, do the cooking, and do more than half of the housework. But when you get into things like making investment decisions, these are not inherently a male province. Men are not necessarily smarter than women or more able to make investment choices simply because they’re men. Some individual men might be–just as some individual women might be. It’s simply not a gender-based skill. > [@](#): > > Oh, and just so you know, Brazil said his wife works, though she doesn’t make as much as him (which is quite common in marriages, as men make more than their wife in approximately 78% of them). I just though you’d like to know that, since you seemed to be implying some kind of “stay-at-home-and-take-care-of-the-kids” idea for a woman (which is pretty much unfeasible these days as the cost of raising a family is generally more than what a man could make on his own). Brazil’s situation is his own. Like I said before, I have no interest in suggesting how other people should live their lives. But I personally would find it impossible to live in a relationship where the man felt that he had to be the “boss” and have the final say in all important family decisions simply because he has a penis and I don’t. There’s nothing about men that make them inherently better decision makers (especially about families), smarter, or more qualified to lead than there is about women. It’s all individual. Some men are better leaders than some women, and vice versa. To assume the man is the leader simply because he’s the man is…silly, to me. And potentially very dangerous. ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-preening-sexist-self-imortant-gynophobic-douche/594046/229 "2011-08-26T21:42:21Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > BZZT. Did you actually read the words? Yes, I did. Did you? I realize that the cool thing around here to do is to try to jump at the chance of playing “Gotcha’!”, but after a while it gets old. > [@](#): > > **brazil84** isn’t claiming that just A woman or HIS wife wants thing this way. His claim is that MOST women either secretly or openly want to be dominated by men. > > Why twist the words in this fashion? You’re not all that sly. Really. You’re not. Do you know what my response was to that comment? Here, I’ll type it out for you: [QUOTE=Me] Simple experience gives credence to this assertion. Few women want a guy who’s not really assertive, not all that decisive and doesn’t like to take charge of his situation. Generally, those are the kind of guys chicks rolls their eyes towards. [/quote] Nowhere did I pass that comment off as a personal preference or as pertaining solely to his wife. The comments I passed on pertaining solely to his wife or his relationship with his wife were explicitly stated to be about his wife or his relationship with his wife. The propensity of some of you guys and gals to sit around trying to find the slightest fault with everything some otherwise Conservative leaning person types out is nothing short of sad. > [@](#): > > There may be “plenty” of women who want this kind of relationship, but those aren’t the words used by **brazil84**. His claim is that MOST women (actually, he uses ‘girls’ here), even if they don’t consciously know it, want to be in that sort of relationship and even appreciate it. And see my response to that. > [@](#): > > That’s beyond paternalism. It’s patronizing to women and certainly misogynistic. No, it’s not. Unless, of course, you’re going to straw man his words into meaning that a woman wants a leash strapped around her neck and dragged around everywhere the man wants to go. Which would be-- you know-- ridiculous and nowhere even close to anything Brazil ever typed out, especially considering nowhere has he ever endorsed such a relationship. ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-preening-sexist-self-imortant-gynophobic-douche/594046/230 "2011-08-26T21:49:17Z")
> [@Infovore](#): > > Wait a sec. “Deciding how to invest money” is “dirty work”? While I can see that it might be fairly common for the men to take care of doing work that requires strength, lifting ability, or just generally getting dirty, I don’t see why it’s inherently more likely for the men to do the investment decisions, especially in this day and age where many women are as educated as men (or in many cases, more so). ‘Dirty work’, which includes all the things that women generally don’t do or don’t want to do (i.e., physical labor), is not exclusive and doesn’t preclude other facets of married life. Anyway, if you consider the fact that the man makes the majority of the money in the majority of households (78% of them), it’s not all that hard to see why he’d _probably_ be making the majority of the investment decisions. I’d be willing to bet that in a household where the woman makes the majority of income, she’s likely making the majority of the investment decisions. ---
**Author:** ![Infovore](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infovore/32/420_2.png) [@Infovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Infovore)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-preening-sexist-self-imortant-gynophobic-douche/594046/231 "2011-08-26T22:21:11Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > Anyway, if you consider the fact that the man makes the majority of the money in the majority of households (78% of them), it’s not all that hard to see why he’d _probably_ be making the majority of the investment decisions. I’d be willing to bet that in a household where the woman makes the majority of income, she’s likely making the majority of the investment decisions. See, this is the kind of thing that bugs me. Even if the man does make more money than the woman, that doesn’t necessarily mean that (a) he’s smarter or better about how to spend/invest than the woman, and that (b) he has any right to do so. Marriage is, ideally, a _partnership._ If the man works outside the home so the woman can take care of the kids, that’s a division of labor they choose to make. It’s not _his_ money to direct. It’s _the family’s_ money. The man making the investment/saving decisions might be a good thing if he’s an investment banker, but what if he’s a plumber? Plumbers can make a lot of money, but they don’t have (for the most part–I’m sure there are plumber investment whizzes out there, but I doubt they’re the majority) any built-in investment savvy that a woman doesn’t (especially if she runs the house–she could quite likely have a better idea of what’s needed to keep the family going than her husband does). It really annoys me when people assume that just because the man in the family works outside the home and the woman doesn’t, that means it’s \*his \*money and it’s up to him to decide how it’s spent. I’m not accusing you of this, necessarily, but your post makes it sound like this might possibly be your opinion. I’d be interested to know if it isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-preening-sexist-self-imortant-gynophobic-douche/594046/232 "2011-08-26T23:15:45Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > You’re not all that sly. Really. You’re not. Not trying to be sly or even trying for a gotcha. Just reading the words on the page. The words **brazil84** used are different from your interpretation. They do not literally say what you claim they do. That’s not a gotcha. That’s just reading the friggin’ words as written on the page, which you somehow choose to read differently than everybody else. If you want to use your own interpretation of words, go ahead. But don’t expect your quite frankly odd reading to sound reasonable to anybody else. Maybe the rest of the board is crazy and lacks reading comprehension. Or maybe it’s just you. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-preening-sexist-self-imortant-gynophobic-douche/594046/233 "2011-08-26T23:52:41Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > [QUOTE=Der Trihs] > Well; black + conservative implies that already. That’s kind of like Capitalists for Stalin. You clearly haven’t met very many blacks. [/QUOTE] It wouldn’t matter if I’d never met one in my life; what matters is that American conservatism is heavily dominated by white racists. Regardless of their other political opinions, it’s foolish to support your implacable enemies like that. ---
**Author:** ![AlienVessels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@AlienVessels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlienVessels)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-preening-sexist-self-imortant-gynophobic-douche/594046/234 "2011-08-27T00:16:36Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > Simplicity is often the best measure/solution. The world is complex. Approaching it with simple minded strategies is often subjectively easier a la the 80/20 rule. But civilization lies in the 20. In my experience women in marriages with men who insist on 100% veto power are in most cases unhappy. The minority I’ve seen that accept such relationships also observe the tenets of a paternalistic religion. I can certainly understand the position that assumes that said women made those choices “freely”. If that _weren’t_ the case, then those not so conditioned would have a moral obligation to help form a society that educates them better. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-preening-sexist-self-imortant-gynophobic-douche/594046/235 "2011-08-27T00:24:34Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > It wouldn’t matter if I’d never met one in my life; what matters is that American conservatism is heavily dominated by white racists. Regardless of their other political opinions, it’s foolish to support your implacable enemies like that. Another Der Trihs Baseless AssertionTM. What are we up to now, a couple million at least, right? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-preening-sexist-self-imortant-gynophobic-douche/594046/236 "2011-08-27T00:57:26Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Another Der Trihs Baseless AssertionTM. What are we up to now, a couple million at least, right? :rolleyes: It’s only “baseless” if you’ve been living under a rock your entire life. ---
**Author:** ![OneMissedPost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8e7dd6/32.png) [@OneMissedPost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneMissedPost)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-preening-sexist-self-imortant-gynophobic-douche/594046/237 "2011-08-27T01:11:50Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > :rolleyes: It’s only “baseless” if you’ve been living under a rock your entire life. No, it’s “only ‘baseless’” if you don’t agree with **Der Trihs**? Am I right? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-preening-sexist-self-imortant-gynophobic-douche/594046/238 "2011-08-27T02:41:18Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I deny that we need to presume any such thing. If I see abuse, I assume abuse. OK. Assume away, chum. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-preening-sexist-self-imortant-gynophobic-douche/594046/239 "2011-08-27T05:10:15Z")
> [@OneMissedPost](#): > > No, it’s “only ‘baseless’” if you don’t agree with **Der Trihs**? Am I right? :rolleyes: Deny reality if you like. That won’t make the American right any less racist. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-preening-sexist-self-imortant-gynophobic-douche/594046/240 "2011-08-27T05:33:46Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Air! You can’t do without air! > > Must…be…right…about something! Earlier, you were correct in stating that you were not \*\*Boss strain. \*\* If you had to be right about just one thing, that was a good one. You should be thankful. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-preening-sexist-self-imortant-gynophobic-douche/594046.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brazil84-preening-sexist-self-imortant-gynophobic-douche/594046.md?page=13)