# Break-throughs in auto efficiency in the next 2 years? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 21, 2009, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/break-throughs-in-auto-efficiency-in-the-next-2-years/490278 "2009-03-21T19:01:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Critical1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Critical1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Critical1)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2009, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/break-throughs-in-auto-efficiency-in-the-next-2-years/490278/21 "2009-03-23T01:45:40Z")
> **[monotracer.com - This website is for sale! - monotracer...](http://www.monotracer.com/)** > > This website is for sale! monotracer.com is your first and best source for all of the information you’re looking for. From general topics to more of what you would expect to find here, monotracer.com has it all. We hope you find what you are... heres one I have been waiting for for like 20 friggin years…and they are STILL selling for over 80k you would think that a vehicle like that with the fuel economy and comfort combination would go into mass production and kick out some cheaper models but who the hell is going to pay for an 80k economy vehicle? ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2009, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/break-throughs-in-auto-efficiency-in-the-next-2-years/490278/22 "2009-03-27T15:39:41Z")
[Here’s](http://www.reuters.com/article/reuterscomService5/idUSTRE52P1KB20090326) an announcement from Mazda about their plans for clean diesel. Targeted for 2011. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2009, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/break-throughs-in-auto-efficiency-in-the-next-2-years/490278/23 "2009-03-27T15:42:39Z")
> [@Critical1](#): > > you would think that a vehicle like that with the fuel economy and comfort combination would go into mass production and kick out some cheaper models but who the hell is going to pay for an 80k economy vehicle? Who the hell is going to pay any amount of money for the world’s ugliest motorcycle? ---
**Author:** ![Dog80](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6bbea6/32.png) [@Dog80](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dog80)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2009, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/break-throughs-in-auto-efficiency-in-the-next-2-years/490278/24 "2009-03-27T16:04:59Z")
> [@Khadaji](#): > > [Here’s](http://www.reuters.com/article/reuterscomService5/idUSTRE52P1KB20090326) an announcement from Mazda about their plans for clean diesel. Targeted for 2011. Newsflash! Diesel cars are already as fuel efficient as hybrids. [Toyota Prius: 5.26 l/100km](http://www.spritmonitor.de/en/overview/49-Toyota/439-Prius.html) [Volkswagen Golf Diesel: 5.84 l/100km](http://www.spritmonitor.de/en/overview/50-Volkswagen/452-Golf.html) ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2009, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/break-throughs-in-auto-efficiency-in-the-next-2-years/490278/25 "2009-03-27T16:26:56Z")
Dunno… looks like the Toyota is about 11% better. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2009, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/break-throughs-in-auto-efficiency-in-the-next-2-years/490278/26 "2009-03-27T16:30:20Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > Dunno… looks like the Toyota is about 11% better. The Golf is heavier and less aerodynamic. If you combined the Golf’s engine with the Prius’ bodyshell and regenerative braking system it would almost certainly be more efficient. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2009, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/break-throughs-in-auto-efficiency-in-the-next-2-years/490278/27 "2009-03-27T16:38:49Z")
> [@Critical1](#): > > [http://www.monotracer.com/](http://www.monotracer.com/) > > heres one I have been waiting for for like 20 friggin years…and they are STILL selling for over 80k > > you would think that a vehicle like that with the fuel economy and comfort combination would go into mass production and kick out some cheaper models but who the hell is going to pay for an 80k economy vehicle? Wait, how does that work? Do the training wheels come down at every stoplight or is it gyrostabilized? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2009, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/break-throughs-in-auto-efficiency-in-the-next-2-years/490278/28 "2009-03-27T18:08:25Z")
> [@GreasyJack](#): > > The two big things that are in the very near future are plug-in hybrids and high-mileage “clean” diesels, which might be worth looking at if very good fuel economy is important to you, but they’re likely to stay as niche products and they definitely aren’t going to render the old fashioned gasoline powered car obsolete any time soon. I disagree that diesels are niche cars. They are populur everwhere except the US and that is changing. VW already has an entry in the states and Honda is coming out with a 62 mpg diesel in 2010. Toyota is bringing a diesel hybrid which will serve both markets. The breakthrough in battery technology has already been made and that is rapid charging. Cell phones will be able to be recharged in a couple of minutes. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Slant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c57346/32.png) [@Mr.Slant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Slant)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2009, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/break-throughs-in-auto-efficiency-in-the-next-2-years/490278/29 "2009-03-27T19:13:03Z")
Could we not just standardize electric vehicle batteries and then install an automatic battery swap system in every vehicle? Just kind of use a robot arm in place of a gas pump and do a quick change? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2009, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/break-throughs-in-auto-efficiency-in-the-next-2-years/490278/30 "2009-03-27T19:24:10Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I disagree that diesels are niche cars. They are populur everwhere except the US and that is changing. Yep… diesels account for nearly 50% of European auto sales now. ---
**Author:** ![HorseloverFat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8e8cbc/32.png) [@HorseloverFat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HorseloverFat)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2009, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/break-throughs-in-auto-efficiency-in-the-next-2-years/490278/31 "2009-03-27T19:27:27Z")
\>Are there going to be any revelations, any great new technologies in the next 2 years? There are two ways to interpret this. The first way is asking what new discoveries are happening in research. For instance there was a[big lithium-on breakthrough recently](http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/mar2009/tc20090317_190902.htm?chan=top+news_top+news+index+-+temp_technology) but its still in a lab. That wont trickle down to you and me for several years. If it ever does. The other way is asking what can you buy in two years that you cant buy today. Well, the former will probably have to do with the battery industry and the latter will be what we are seeing today. Expensive electric vehicles, less expensive hybrids, and cheap high mpg gas vehicles. Frankly, if we had a good idea on what the future holds we’d be millionaires from playing the market. ---
**Author:** ![HorseloverFat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8e8cbc/32.png) [@HorseloverFat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HorseloverFat)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2009, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/break-throughs-in-auto-efficiency-in-the-next-2-years/490278/32 "2009-03-27T19:38:00Z")
Also spin battery invented: > **[University of Miami physicist develops battery using new source of energy](https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/808112)** > > Researchers at the University of Miami and at the Universities of Tokyo and Tohoku, Japan, have been able to prove the existence of a "spin battery," a battery that is "charged" by applying a large magnetic field to nanomagnets in a device called a... ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2009, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/break-throughs-in-auto-efficiency-in-the-next-2-years/490278/33 "2009-03-27T23:24:52Z")
> [@Mr.Slant](#): > > Could we not just standardize electric vehicle batteries and then install an automatic battery swap system in every vehicle? > Just kind of use a robot arm in place of a gas pump and do a quick change? It would take a lot of money to create the inventory for enough battery-swap stations to serve everyone. Also, since batteries have a finite life, a station could lose a lot of its investment by swapping out new batteries for used ones. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2009, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/break-throughs-in-auto-efficiency-in-the-next-2-years/490278/34 "2009-03-28T02:09:10Z")
> [@Jeff\_Lichtman](#): > > [Quote=Mr. Slant] > Could we not just standardize electric vehicle batteries and then install an automatic battery swap system in every vehicle? > Just kind of use a robot arm in place of a gas pump and do a quick change? It would take a lot of money to create the inventory for enough battery-swap stations to serve everyone. Also, since batteries have a finite life, a station could lose a lot of its investment by swapping out new batteries for used ones. [/QUOTE] And yet this is exactly what Shai Agassi at [Better Place](http://www.betterplace.com/our-bold-plan/) is planning to do. He’s proposing to treat miles in your car like minutes on your cell phone. The cost of buying the car will not include the batteries, which will belong to his company. In many circumstances it will make a lot of sense. Unfortunately, they include islands, small countries, and other closed systems, but not large parts of the U.S. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2009, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/break-throughs-in-auto-efficiency-in-the-next-2-years/490278/35 "2009-03-29T02:14:19Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The Golf is heavier and less aerodynamic. If you combined the Golf’s engine with the Prius’ bodyshell and regenerative braking system it would almost certainly be more efficient. Well, then damn. My Expedition is good, too. It weighs more, has a bigger engine, and is less aerodynamic. A difference of 11% is still 11%. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![bahia\_hombre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@bahia\_hombre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bahia_hombre)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2011, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/break-throughs-in-auto-efficiency-in-the-next-2-years/490278/36 "2011-06-19T22:10:41Z")
> [@Khadaji](#): > > Are there going to be any revelations, any great new technologies in the next 2 years? > > A friend of mine close to the battery industry claims that a company will announce a major break through either 2010 or 2012. But he won’t go into details. > > I have 190K on my car. I will have to buy a new one sometime in the next two years, I’m guessing. Is there anything worth waiting for? > > I always buy new, and keep it until it no longer runs. > > How about the next 5 years? Maybe I should buy used and wait for the next big thing. > > What’s coming? What’s real? > > The Aptera has been coming for a while now. I remember when it was going to be released in CA at the end of 08. Now it says the plug in will be released in 09 and the hybrid in 2010. I’m starting to doubt it will be. Did you get a new car yet? I just found out about adaptive cruise control; appears to be available on quite a few models. It would be a nice feature to hold you over until the road trains arrive. [http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/43386207/ns/technology\_and\_science-tech\_and\_gadgets/](http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/43386207/ns/technology_and_science-tech_and_gadgets/) ---
**Author:** ![california\_jobcase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@california\_jobcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/california_jobcase)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2011, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/break-throughs-in-auto-efficiency-in-the-next-2-years/490278/37 "2011-06-19T22:25:15Z")
I see this thread’s a few years old. Does any manufacturer anywhere make Diesel hybrids? (yes, I know that’s what locomotives are, sort of, but we’re talking cars here). It seems a well set-up Diesel hybrid car could do better than a gasoline powered version. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2011, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/break-throughs-in-auto-efficiency-in-the-next-2-years/490278/38 "2011-06-19T22:35:18Z")
> [@california\_jobcase](#): > > I see this thread’s a few years old. Does any manufacturer anywhere make Diesel hybrids? (yes, I know that’s what locomotives are, sort of, but we’re talking cars here). It seems a well set-up Diesel hybrid car could do better than a gasoline powered version. cost would be the killer for such a thing right now. add the cost of “hybridification” and the cost of the diesel engine along with the required aftertreatment to meet NOx emissions regulations, and you’re looking at something the size of a Fiesta costing $30,000 to start. Fuel costs would have to be a lot more expensive than they are even in other parts of the world in order for that to be an attractive proposition. locomotives are diesel-electric in part to eliminate the need for an extremely heavy and failure-prone mechanical transmission. ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2011, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/break-throughs-in-auto-efficiency-in-the-next-2-years/490278/39 "2011-06-19T22:38:41Z")
> [@california\_jobcase](#): > > I see this thread’s a few years old. Does any manufacturer anywhere make Diesel hybrids? (yes, I know that’s what locomotives are, sort of, but we’re talking cars here). It seems a well set-up Diesel hybrid car could do better than a gasoline powered version. Diesel-electric hybrid city buses have become a lot more common since the thread started. There have been some diesel-electric concept cars, but I don’t believe anything is in production. Part of the problem is simply that you have to pay a premium for diesels and you have to pay a premium for hybrids, and the resulting vehicles don’t seem to justify the price tag yet. Part of this is because there’s some overlap in the advantages of a hybrid and a diesel-- two of diesel’s big advantages are low fuel consumption at idle and lots of low-end torque, both of which are moot in a hybrid. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/break-throughs-in-auto-efficiency-in-the-next-2-years/490278/40 "2011-06-20T15:56:41Z")
> [@california\_jobcase](#): > > I see this thread’s a few years old. Does any manufacturer anywhere make Diesel hybrids? (yes, I know that’s what locomotives are, sort of, but we’re talking cars here). It seems a well set-up Diesel hybrid car could do better than a gasoline powered version. The [Volvo V60 hybrid](http://www.volvocars.com/intl/top/about/news-events/pages/default.aspx?itemid=247) is a plug-in diesel/electric hybrid, and is supposed to be available next year in Europe. But inexplicably they’ve announced that the [US model will have a gasoline engine.](http://green.autoblog.com/2011/06/09/volvo-confirms-v60-plug-in-hybrid-non-diesel-coming-to-america/) By the way, hybrid locomotives do exist, but they are still very rare. Most diesel-electric locomotives are _not_ hybrid, as they do not have batteries; the generator/motor system is simply a power transmission mechanism for the engine, and not an alternate source of power. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/break-throughs-in-auto-efficiency-in-the-next-2-years/490278.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/break-throughs-in-auto-efficiency-in-the-next-2-years/490278.md?page=3)