# Breaker Morant- Was He A Scapegoat? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 25, 2012, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaker-morant-was-he-a-scapegoat/616754 "2012-03-25T12:59:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2012, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaker-morant-was-he-a-scapegoat/616754/41 "2012-12-15T00:58:37Z")
I wonder if these executions influenced the Australians to refuse to let any of their troops to be shot by the British later in WWI. Considering that the British shot over 300 of their own, 25 Canadians and 5 New Zealanders, their deaths may have spared more lives in the long run. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2012, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaker-morant-was-he-a-scapegoat/616754/42 "2012-12-15T01:18:09Z")
My question is, if the trial transcript disappeared, how do we know how fair or unfair the trial was? What evidence is there and who/where did it come from? ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2012, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaker-morant-was-he-a-scapegoat/616754/43 "2012-12-15T02:33:40Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > My question is, if the trial transcript disappeared, how do we know how fair or unfair the trial was? What evidence is there and who/where did it come from? The most prolific contemporary source of information was Witton, Morant’s and Handcock’s codefendant, so of course you have to take that with a grain of salt, but even so, there are serious questions as to the court-martial’s fairness: [Court-martial of Breaker Morant - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Court_martial_of_Breaker_Morant) ---
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2012, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaker-morant-was-he-a-scapegoat/616754/44 "2012-12-16T13:02:19Z")
The [UK] British Nationality Act 1948 created the need for the self-governing Dominions to start issuing their own passports (Canada had begun doing this shortly before). The government does not retain any court-martial transcripts from before 1914, and it appears likely that they were pulped in the wartime salvage drives of the 1940s. ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2012, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaker-morant-was-he-a-scapegoat/616754/45 "2012-12-16T13:15:37Z")
> [@Mk\_VII](#): > > The [UK] British Nationality Act 1948 created the need for the self-governing Dominions to start issuing their own passports (Canada had begun doing this shortly before). > The government does not retain any court-martial transcripts from before 1914, and it appears likely that they were pulped in the wartime salvage drives of the 1940s. The transcripts disappeared in 1902. ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2012, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaker-morant-was-he-a-scapegoat/616754/46 "2012-12-16T13:30:10Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > I wonder if these executions influenced the Australians to refuse to let any of their troops to be shot by the British later in WWI. Considering that the British shot over 300 of their own, 25 Canadians and 5 New Zealanders, their deaths may have spared more lives in the long run. Slithy Tove, that question has been raised a number of times with varying answers. Unfortunately, my main reference for this- the Shot at Dawn site has now been disbanded. I think it is probably more of the fact that Australia wanted to keep control of their own troops. Specifically they wanted them to fight in their own units and not be used as reinforcements for British Divisions (this was not unusual- America refused to allow their troops to be used as reinforcements and demanded they be grouped as American units- although some did indeed fight at one stage under the control of the Australian Monash). Part and parcel of this was keeping control of punishment under the Army regs. (Australians could be executed under a civilian code- for instance murder). Probably the other valid point is that the Australian Army was totally voluntary. The Govt tried to get a conscription vote through twice and failed. They were careful regarding capital punishment for an Army of volunteers- even though the Australian Army brass did favour it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaker-morant-was-he-a-scapegoat/616754.md?page=2)