# Breakfast Club and the Confederate Flag? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 1, 2001, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breakfast-club-and-the-confederate-flag/60336 "2001-04-01T04:21:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Jois](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ea666f/32.png) [@Jois](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jois)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2001, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breakfast-club-and-the-confederate-flag/60336/21 "2001-04-03T02:55:16Z")
My Uncle is in his mid-fifties, lives in Massachusetts, and is one of those people who observe and comment freely on life. He says that 15-20 years ago it would not have been all that odd to see a CSA battle flag on a MA car or truck - just someone saying, “I’m a rebel.” A statement about one’s self, just as Spoke- said, nothing more. He said the same might be seen in any New England state. Jois ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2001, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breakfast-club-and-the-confederate-flag/60336/22 "2001-04-03T15:02:19Z")
I believe **Jois** and **spoke-** have hit the nail on the head. Not that I’m particularly proud of it, but back in the early eighties, I had a rebel flag in my dorm room, and this was in Maine. I had picked it up years before as a young teen in the south, and Dukes of Hazard was making it a popular thingie-ma-bob for us impressionable (drugged out), TV watchin’ college students. ---
**Author:** ![southernbelle65](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c2a13f/32.png) [@southernbelle65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/southernbelle65)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2014, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breakfast-club-and-the-confederate-flag/60336/23 "2014-11-14T03:31:44Z")
This shows the flag: [the breakfast club smoking scene - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WJ-jC8lGAQ) ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2014, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breakfast-club-and-the-confederate-flag/60336/24 "2014-11-14T03:40:06Z")
Contrary to what was said 13 years ago, that’s definitely the old Georgia state flag. The blue field with the Georgia state seal is very visible. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2014, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breakfast-club-and-the-confederate-flag/60336/25 "2014-11-14T04:12:59Z")
Also, just before that you can see another state flag, right when he begins do do a cartwheel. I can’t recall which one it is off-hand, but it would appear that the library is decorated with a number of state and US flags. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2014, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breakfast-club-and-the-confederate-flag/60336/26 "2014-11-14T06:48:06Z")
Zombie thread…off to CS. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2014, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breakfast-club-and-the-confederate-flag/60336/27 "2014-11-14T13:11:19Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > Contrary to what was said 13 years ago, that’s definitely the old Georgia state flag. The blue field with the Georgia state seal is very visible. Agreed. Here’s a (slightly blurry) [screenshot](http://s30.postimg.org/ibxkdsmf5/breakfast_club_georgia_flag.jpg). And here’s the [then current Georgia state flag](http://www.flag-works.com/images/Georgi7.jpg). ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2014, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breakfast-club-and-the-confederate-flag/60336/28 "2014-11-14T14:33:26Z")
Since we’ve discussed “Animal House” in here, too, I feel it’s okay to wonder why [Gotham City](http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/rr323/digplague/gotham.jpg) is in [Indiana](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ac/Flag_of_Indiana.svg/2000px-Flag_of_Indiana.svg.png) ---
**Author:** ![fiddlesticks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddlesticks/32/18129_2.png) [@fiddlesticks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fiddlesticks)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2014, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breakfast-club-and-the-confederate-flag/60336/29 "2014-11-14T14:38:01Z")
That definitely looks like the Georgia flag, but not sure what the first flag in the scene, dark blue with a seal and stars might be. Lots of state flags have a seal on a blue field, but the stars don’t appear to match any flags. Indiana might be the closest, but the stars are white, not gold/yellow. Then there is a plain yellow flag that can be partially seen along with the 13 stars in a circle US flag, could be New Mexico or New Jersey. And that 13 star flag appears to be a odd non-standard design too. All in all, weird ass scene. Watching the scene on youtube it has the feel of a rerun of an old TV show that had a proper rock song replaced with generic rock music because of a music rights issue. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2014, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breakfast-club-and-the-confederate-flag/60336/30 "2014-11-14T14:46:46Z")
Re: _Animal House_, Faber College was supposedly in Pennsylvania, at least in the book. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2014, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breakfast-club-and-the-confederate-flag/60336/31 "2014-11-14T14:54:01Z")
I remember, there was once a time when people could do as they pleased. If you wanted to put up a flag, you could put up, and you would not be surgically dissected to try to see what punishment is appropriate for putting it up. Maybe that movie was made during those times. ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2014, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breakfast-club-and-the-confederate-flag/60336/32 "2014-11-14T18:03:01Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > I remember, there was once a time when people could do as they pleased. If you wanted to put up a flag, you could put up, and you would not be surgically dissected to try to see what punishment is appropriate for putting it up. > > Maybe that movie was made during those times. Actually, there was never a time when “people could do as they pleased.” There have always been symbols that have been taboo, and punishments for the people who violated those taboos (some much more severe than the social condemnation used today). There was, however, a time when it was O.K. to keep certain people as slaves, and later a time when it was O.K. to discriminate. In those times, symbols that we now consider to be offensive could be displayed. Those were not good times. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2014, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breakfast-club-and-the-confederate-flag/60336/33 "2014-11-14T18:10:58Z")
> [@John\_Bredin](#): > > Ridgewood High School of Norridge, Illinois calls its sports teams the “Rebels”… > [@Spoke](#): > > Perhaps John Hughes threw it into the background as an emblem of rebellion. > [@Spoke](#): > > The movie was filmed 15 years ago, and you have to realize that attitudes about the Confederate flag have shifted a bit in that time. The Confederate flag was a pretty common sight in the 70’s and into the 80’s in a context that suggests that it was understood to stand for rebellion in general. Showed up in lots of decals. Look in the old decal ads from the 70’s. You’ll find the Confederate flag right there next to the “ecology flag” and the Jolly Roger. The flag got waved around at rock concerts. It showed up in movies (see that Animal House scene referenced above). It was plastered on motorcycle helmets. > > In recent years, folks have become more sensitive to the fact that black Americans find the flag offensive. So now, when the flag pops up in an old movie, it’s jarring to our modified sensibilities. Having read the thread only up to **Spoke** ’s post, I agree with him. My high school team were the Rebels. Our class rings depicted a mounted Confederate soldier charging with his sabre drawn. The year after I graduated, they switched to a cartoon Confederate; apparently because it was thought to be less offensive than a more realistic depiction. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2014, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breakfast-club-and-the-confederate-flag/60336/34 "2014-11-14T18:37:19Z")
> [@fiddlesticks](#): > > That definitely looks like the Georgia flag, but not sure what the first flag in the scene, dark blue with a seal and stars might be. Lots of state flags have a seal on a blue field, but the stars don’t appear to match any flags. Indiana might be the closest, but the stars are white, not gold/yellow. Then there is a plain yellow flag that can be partially seen along with the 13 stars in a circle US flag, could be New Mexico or New Jersey. And that 13 star flag appears to be a odd non-standard design too. > > All in all, weird ass scene. Watching the scene on youtube it has the feel of a rerun of an old TV show that had a proper rock song replaced with generic rock music because of a music rights issue. I was hoping for a screenshot from the HD release, but the version I found that said it was HD really doesn’t seem to have been. If anyone has the Blu-ray, or is willing to get their hands on it (one way or another), we might be able to see those flags more clearly. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2014, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breakfast-club-and-the-confederate-flag/60336/35 "2014-11-14T18:47:08Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > I remember, there was once a time when people could do as they pleased. If you wanted to put up a flag, you could put up, and you would not be surgically dissected to try to see what punishment is appropriate for putting it up. > > Maybe that movie was made during those times. “The Breakfast Club” was one of John Hughes’ hit teen coming-of-age movies. That’s what his flicks were all about. Finding yourself, having fun, trying not to fit people’s expectations of you, and being individual. They often didn’t reflect the actual world. None of the events from “Ferris Bueller’s Day Off” for example, would be everyday occurrences for most people. How many people have actually sung “Danke Schoen” in a parade or accidentally sent their father’s Ferrari backing over a cliff? People often saw them because it made them nostalgic for their teen years and they wished they had done the things the characters in the movies dared to do. They saw a little bit of themselves in Hughes’ characters. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2014, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breakfast-club-and-the-confederate-flag/60336/36 "2014-11-14T21:40:34Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > I remember, there was once a time when people could do as they pleased. If you wanted to put up a flag, you could put up, and you would not be surgically dissected to try to see what punishment is appropriate for putting it up. May you point to where anyone was looking for “punishment” when the thread first started? It’s a perfectly valid question _in the case of a film or stage play_ to ask if everything that appears on the set was placed there under deliberate director’s/writer’s/art designer’s instructions to make a point. And anyway you don’t just put things up on the walls of the school library just for the sake of putting them up, without regard to context or educational value; not now, not in 2001, not in 1986, not in 1966. People were speculating (kind of blindly in the 2001 absence of abundant online clips to check) on why would the CBF be displayed on the school library because back when the movie was made it _already had_ become controversial to display it _without a specific context_ in many places, and the OP and early commenters on the thread did not realize that the context was a prosaic “flags of the States” display and it was simply a then-current Georgia flag. OTOH, I must say that seeing how the guy passes that flag twice in the scene, there was a second chance to notice it was NOT a plain CBF. This sort of reinforces the notion the states of the USA need some serious vexillological help, since hardly anyone recognizes their flags. (Side point: Georgia of course was a particularly annoying case since the flag with the rebel saltire was adopted in 1956 as a nyah-nyah to the part of the country that was right about the issues of the time, when they already had a [perfectly OK prior flag](http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/u/us-ga20.gif), and then in 2001 proceeded to first try to fix it with the [Worst. State Flag. Ever.](http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/u/us-ga7.gif) before correcting to the current one, based on the pre-1956 one and [on the actual stars-and-bars](http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/u/us-ga.gif).) ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breakfast-club-and-the-confederate-flag/60336/37 "2014-11-15T21:16:44Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > May you point to where anyone was looking for “punishment” when the thread first started? It’s a perfectly valid question _in the case of a film or stage play_ to ask if everything that appears on the set was placed there under deliberate director’s/writer’s/art designer’s instructions to make a point. > > And anyway you don’t just put things up on the walls of the school library just for the sake of putting them up, without regard to context or educational value; not now, not in 2001, not in 1986, not in 1966. > > People were speculating (kind of blindly in the 2001 absence of abundant online clips to check) on why would the CBF be displayed on the school library because back when the movie was made it _already had_ become controversial to display it _without a specific context_ in many places, and the OP and early commenters on the thread did not realize that the context was a prosaic “flags of the States” display and it was simply a then-current Georgia flag. > > OTOH, I must say that seeing how the guy passes that flag twice in the scene, there was a second chance to notice it was NOT a plain CBF. This sort of reinforces the notion the states of the USA need some serious vexillological help, since hardly anyone recognizes their flags. ) Nothing I said implied that the director made a specific point to seek out the flag and use it. Rather, he would have simply assembled a collection of the kinds of things that would ordinarily been a part of the scenery. For all I know, the film was just shot in an existing school room, with everything left in place. At a time when there was a great deal more tolerance than there is now, for that which may be considered politically sensitive. As for my"punishment" reference, any student who put up such a flag today would almost certainly be suspended or even expelled from the school. ---
**Author:** ![Uncle\_Jocko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uncle_jocko/32/2932_2.png) [@Uncle\_Jocko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncle_Jocko)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breakfast-club-and-the-confederate-flag/60336/38 "2014-11-15T21:25:12Z")
A student putting up the Georgia state flag would be suspended or expelled? I feel like I’m taking crazy pills! (Now crazy pills _would_ get you suspended or expelled …) ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2014, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breakfast-club-and-the-confederate-flag/60336/39 "2014-11-16T16:23:33Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > in 2001 proceeded to first try to fix it with the [Worst. State Flag. Ever.](http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/u/us-ga7.gif) before correcting to the current one To be fair, they have [plenty of company](http://blog.cvsflags.com/flag-fun/similar-looking-state-flags). And I don’t think that’s all of the [blue-bedsheet flags](http://www.nava.org/flag-design/survey/state-provincial-survey-2001) (see third paragraph.) Georgia made it worse with the added flags at the bottom, but it hardly stood out. Just look through the [U.S. state flag Wikipedia article](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_U.S._states) to see all the seals-on-bedsheet flags. I counted over 20. ---
**Author:** ![LC\_Strawhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@LC\_Strawhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LC_Strawhouse)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2014, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breakfast-club-and-the-confederate-flag/60336/40 "2014-11-16T16:42:01Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > I remember, there was once a time when people could do as they pleased. If you wanted to put up a flag, you could put up, and you would not be surgically dissected to try to see what punishment is appropriate for putting it up. > > Maybe that movie was made during those times. Actually, when the movie was made in 1985, stuff like this was ignored simply because everyone was so completely focused on the nuclear arms race with the Soviet Union instead. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breakfast-club-and-the-confederate-flag/60336.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breakfast-club-and-the-confederate-flag/60336.md?page=3)