# Breaking an engagement: where doth the ring go? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 21, 2003, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-an-engagement-where-doth-the-ring-go/163229 "2003-03-21T22:27:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![auntie\_em](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@auntie\_em](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/auntie_em)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-an-engagement-where-doth-the-ring-go/163229/1 "2003-03-21T22:27:12Z")
NO, I’m not getting kicked to the curb by my fiance (uh . . . I don’t think). So there will be no pissy or heart-wrenching anecdotes here. But we’ve got a running hypothetical argument going about whether or not he would get this here ring back if we were ever to split up. (Note: So far our discussion only extends to the possibility of splitting up _before_ we get hitched.) I say that if _I_ do the dumping, or the breakup was caused by actions on my part that would clearly constitute a (previously-known) deal-breaking offense (such as cheating on him), then yeah, I should hand over the ring. (On the other hand, if I didn’t _know_ in advance that he considered, say, wearing a candy necklace to church grounds for breakup, then it could go either way.) But if, say, he decides he’d rather be doing the horizontal hula with Susie at the office, and dumps _me_ to be with _her_, I say the rock is MINE. He says that because he gave me the ring as a _symbol of our agreement to marry each other_ (and because I accepted it as such), then if that agreement is broken for ANY reason, he gets the ring back. Or he’ll take me to court. I say by the time the case comes up, I will have considered it merely a “gift from an ex” (which implied no specific agreement of any sort), pawned it and spent the money on a trip to Hawaii with Greg Allman. 😉 Anyway, it’s Friday, I’m bored, and so . . . . . . where do you all weigh in on this one (I’m not asking for _legal_ opinions–I guess this is more of an ethics poll)? And are we weird because we like to bicker (light-heartedly) about this? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-an-engagement-where-doth-the-ring-go/163229/2 "2003-03-21T22:32:24Z")
IANAL, but if the ring is given freely, then it’s yours to keep (at least in a legal sense). Your BF didn’t loan you the thing, he gave it as a symbol of his love for you at the time (hopefully for a lot longer, too). ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-an-engagement-where-doth-the-ring-go/163229/3 "2003-03-21T22:32:33Z")
I believe the etiquette experts would agree with you. Whoever breaks the engagement off gives up their claim on the ring. A trickier question would be what to do if the breakup is a mutual decision. In that case, I think the classy thing to do would be to give the ring back. ---
**Author:** ![auntie\_em](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@auntie\_em](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/auntie_em)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-an-engagement-where-doth-the-ring-go/163229/4 "2003-03-21T22:37:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tapioca Dextrin \* > \*\*Your BF didn’t loan you the thing, he gave it as a symbol of his love for you at the time (hopefully for a lot longer, too). \*\* I guess it’s in my best interest to hope that he _keeps_ loving me, otherwise he might dump me _just_ to get the ring back, at any point that he’s feeling particularly broke. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Greenback](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/2bfe46/32.png) [@Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greenback)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-an-engagement-where-doth-the-ring-go/163229/5 "2003-03-21T22:39:11Z")
I’m with Lamia on this one. I think it’s a matter of etiquette although legally I guess the ring is yours as TD stated. If it’s a nasty breakup, you could just tie your wrists together, throw the ring at one end of a room and…no, wait. That’s more fun when you’re still together 😃 ---
**Author:** ![auntie\_em](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@auntie\_em](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/auntie_em)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-an-engagement-where-doth-the-ring-go/163229/6 "2003-03-21T22:46:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Greenback \* > \*\*If it’s a nasty breakup, you could just tie your wrists together, throw the ring at one end of a room and…no, wait. That’s more fun when you’re still together 😃 \*\* Well, who knows . . . ? That could turn out to be the catalyst for a big happy Peaches & Herb moment. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![monster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@monster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monster)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-an-engagement-where-doth-the-ring-go/163229/7 "2003-03-21T22:58:44Z")
If he paid for it, and it was given specifically as an engagement ring, I say it goes back. No matter who breaks it off, he gets it back. If it was a combo Christmas/Birthday/Engagement ring, then you keep it no matter who breaks it off. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-an-engagement-where-doth-the-ring-go/163229/8 "2003-03-21T23:06:51Z")
I believe it is a gift and is yours to keep but… The proper thing to do is to give it back if you break off the engagement. If he breaks off the engagement, I believe ettiquitte says you “should” give it back, but there is a clause that covers pawning it for Hawaii with or without Greg Allman. If it is an heirloom, you should give it back even if he cheated on you with your best friend in your bed on your birthday while you were taking cookies you stayed up all night to bake to his bedridden mother. Then you should take every other possession of his and drive over them as many times as possible with his car - after you cut the hoses. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-an-engagement-where-doth-the-ring-go/163229/9 "2003-03-21T23:31:50Z")
According to etiquette: It goes back to him, no matter what. It doesn’t matter if you dump him. It doesn’t matter he dumps you. It doesn’t matter if you catch him in bed with the cast of Cirque du Soleil. (or vice versa… or the reasons why either one of you were there) The ring goes back to him. From “Miss Manners Guide for the Turn of the Millenium” (page 572 to be exact) > [@](#): > > Dear Miss Manners: > You stated that if a woman breaks her engagement, she should give the ring back. What if a man breaks it off?..I’m not going to give it back. He says he’s going to take me to court. That’s the only way I’m going to give it back. > Gentle Reader: > Going to court is the only chance you may have of keeping it Miss Manners is not a lawyer, but she is not going to let you keep it on social grounds. The laws of etiquette absolutely require you to return an engagement ring when the engagement is broken, for whatever reason, and by however nasty a fiance. She repeats that the ring goes back on page 193 of “Miss Manners on Weddings”. ---
**Author:** ![MissGypsy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8491ac/32.png) [@MissGypsy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MissGypsy)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-an-engagement-where-doth-the-ring-go/163229/10 "2003-03-21T23:43:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by monster \* > \*\*If he paid for it, and it was given specifically as an engagement ring, I say it goes back. No matter who breaks it off, he gets it back. If it was a combo Christmas/Birthday/Engagement ring, then you keep it no matter who breaks it off. \*\* I recall reading (either Emily Post or Miss Manners, can’t remember which) that **monster** is correct, etiquette-wise. If you received said ring on Christmas, Valentine’s Day, birthday, or some such other holiday, it’s all yours. Otherwise, it’s a symbol of engagement, so should be returned (like a class ring back in high school, to my way of thinking). I wish I could find the cite, but it eludes me… ---
**Author:** ![MissGypsy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8491ac/32.png) [@MissGypsy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MissGypsy)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-an-engagement-where-doth-the-ring-go/163229/11 "2003-03-21T23:46:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by amarinth \* > \*\*According to etiquette: > It goes back to him, no matter what. It doesn’t matter if you dump him. It doesn’t matter he dumps you. It doesn’t matter if you catch him in bed with the cast of Cirque du Soleil. (or vice versa… or the reasons why either one of you were there) The ring goes back to him. > > From “Miss Manners Guide for the Turn of the Millenium” (page 572 to be exact) > She repeats that the ring goes back on page 193 of “Miss Manners on Weddings”. \*\* Apologies, I see **amarinth** is more up-to-date on Miss Manners than I am. I posted too quickly, and didn’t catch that on preview. It must have been Emily Post that I read, then. ---
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-an-engagement-where-doth-the-ring-go/163229/12 "2003-03-21T23:53:29Z")
I would say it should be considered a contingent gift and returned if the contingency (i.e., marriage) is not fulfilled for whatever reason. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2003, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-an-engagement-where-doth-the-ring-go/163229/13 "2003-03-22T00:03:50Z")
Another vote here for giving it back, regardless of who dumps whom. ---
**Author:** ![SkipMagic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skipmagic/32/20706_2.png) [@SkipMagic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkipMagic)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2003, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-an-engagement-where-doth-the-ring-go/163229/14 "2003-03-22T00:50:52Z")
Well, Honey, as you suspected, I ain’t gonna kick you to the nearest curb just yet, so your ring is safe from my greedy hands. 🙂 But Baby, your personal trainer? He’s gotta go. I no like Paco… 😉 Anyway, I’m gonna stick with the posters who agree with me on the matter; in fact, now that I have the awesome and excruciatingly correct behavior powers of Miss Manners to back me up, I can breathe a sigh of relief. Now I can spend that legal retainer on something electronic-y and fun! Besides, legal precedent for the Supreme Courts of Kansas (Heiman v. Parrish, 942 P.2d 631, 636 [Kan. 1997]) and Pennsylvania (Lindh v. Surman, 1999 WL 1073639) tend to back up my rather unromantic views of our diamond distress. That said–I love you and am absolutely thrilled to get a lil’ tingly feeling when I realize that I get the chance to make burn-the-house-down grilled cheese sandwiches for you every morning. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Shade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2bfe46/32.png) [@Shade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shade)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2003, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-an-engagement-where-doth-the-ring-go/163229/15 "2003-03-22T01:49:24Z")
If you’d have given him an engagement ring, and cheated on him, would you expect it back? ---
**Author:** ![c\_carol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e79b87/32.png) [@c\_carol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/c_carol)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2003, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-an-engagement-where-doth-the-ring-go/163229/16 "2003-03-22T03:19:15Z")
I gave the ring back. I didn’t want to keep the darned thing, and I never even considered selling it (that’d just be tacky). Ours was a complicated “mutual” breakup, though. I might have felt different if it had been 100% His Fault. But even in that case, it would still probably be very tacky to pawn the thing. I’d recommend giving it back by throwing it hard at his face and storming out in a huge tearful dramatic embarassing scene. ---
**Author:** ![TVeblen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@TVeblen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVeblen)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2003, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-an-engagement-where-doth-the-ring-go/163229/17 "2003-03-22T03:50:43Z")
I’ve only disagreed with the sublime Ms. Manners on one thing\*, and this ain’t it. I work from the theory that if a lady and gentleman must cancel a planned marriage, the “face” points of what’s done with rock/ring far outstrip the actual resale value, and last longer too. If either gentleman or lady acts like a total sleazebag, there’s great satisfaction in _very_ civilly treating the rock/ring like nuclear waste; symbolic, of course, of what one actually thinks of the other. “Oh, _you_ take it, I insist!” The subtext is, of course, that the offended party now regards any symbolic reminder as about as appealing as a rotting slug. Symbols can be fun, actually. IMO it’s a grave mistake to value mere sparkles over the rich mind-screwing potential. Refusing to get grabby over the symbol denies even the _densest_, shallowest idiot any gloating rights. It can be a lethal insult, actually, if handled properly. For men AND women, the message can be, “Take the bauble, loser, and remember the good person you threw away. You’re stuck with the memories because I’m not wasting another thought on _you_.” Great stuff. (Uh, but My Theory only applies to those in extremis, and is in no way intended to toss ice water over happy souls who’d find it irrelevant.) Veb [sub]\*It pains me to say it, but she’s dead wrong about reading at the table if dining alone, even in restaurants. ESPECIALLY in restaurants.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2003, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-an-engagement-where-doth-the-ring-go/163229/18 "2003-03-22T04:35:25Z")
On Judge Judy the ring _always_ goes back to the man, except when it’s given on Christmas or birthdays. I believe I read somewhere that legally, it belongs to the giver if the engagement is broken. ---
**Author:** ![MissTake](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/misstake/32/3189_2.png) [@MissTake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MissTake)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2003, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-an-engagement-where-doth-the-ring-go/163229/19 "2003-03-22T04:52:20Z")
So, then, when the first fiance and I broke up because he was playing “Hide the Piggy” and the ring ‘accidently’ fell into the Mississippi, I am bound to dredge for the dang thing? ---
**Author:** ![peepthis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9d8465/32.png) [@peepthis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peepthis)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2003, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-an-engagement-where-doth-the-ring-go/163229/20 "2003-03-22T05:34:39Z")
Laws vary by state, but in Pennsylvania for example, the ring must be returned since it was given with the implied understanding (promise) that a marriage would occur. If the wedding is called off, by either side, that has not been fulfilled and the ring returns to the giver. Or so says my Philly lawyer friend when asked about this. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-an-engagement-where-doth-the-ring-go/163229.md?page=2)