# Breaking Bad 24 May **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 25, 2009, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-24-may/497527 "2009-05-25T03:02:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Prelude\_to\_Fascination](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a183cd/32.png) [@Prelude\_to\_Fascination](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prelude_to_Fascination)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-24-may/497527/41 "2009-05-26T11:59:13Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > I thought it was more contrived that Walt walked in at the exact moment that Jane was dying. What are the chances? Jane died because Walt shook Jesse, and so she rolled over from her side to her back. Had she stayed on her side, that is, if Walt hadn’t shaken Jesse, she may still have vomited, but right onto Jesse’s head. I can’t see a “crime” has been committed as far as Walt not helping Jane, but (and this is just me) I think he had a _moral_ obligation to help her – insomuch as one human being helps another not die. But Walt killed Crazy Eight and Tuco (self defense, but that’s more than I’ve done), and has made threats (“Stay out of my territory!”), so we know he’s turning into a cold bastard. As for the talk with Q at the bar, I can see that happening – when you’re chatting with someone you don’t know, but you have _something_ in common, it’s not unusual to fall into “network TV chatter,” and talk in cliches like they did. Were they supposed to be all buddy-buddy? 🙂 It was small talk, not much different than what you’d find at a cocktail party or some other social situation where people don’t know each other well, but find they have one thing in common. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-24-may/497527/42 "2009-05-26T13:36:00Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > He’s never going to quit. The money is his rationalization. He gets off on being a drug lord. Didn’t he say during the episode in the desert that they were almost out of that chemical that they stole from the warehouse? So fairly soon he’s going to have a problem with raw ingredients. ---
**Author:** ![Hockey\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a183cd/32.png) [@Hockey\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hockey_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-24-may/497527/43 "2009-05-26T14:20:01Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > No, having a beer does not make him an alcohol abuser, but I think you missed that Q was one of the attendees at one of the AA meetings, and it may very well have been a NA meeting. Alcohol is a mind altering substance and a big no-no for people in an NA program. Or so I understand. Thus the dripping self-loathing in the self-introduction to Walt lying to his wife: “Well played”. Walt loves lying to Skylar, it would have been simpler to say he stopped in at a bar and hadn’t found a place with the diapers yet. > > I’m now reminded that Walt purposely made Walt Jr sick to the point of barfing in a previous episode. Contrast with his daughter sleeping on her side and Jane barfing to death. It may very well be that Jane’s dad is in the program, but I got more of the impression that he was there supporting her and making sure she went to the meetings. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-24-may/497527/44 "2009-05-26T14:21:55Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > No, having a beer does not make him an alcohol abuser, but I think you missed that Q was one of the attendees at one of the AA meetings, and it may very well have been a NA meeting. I caught that, but my impression was that he was there because of Jane. We saw them at one meeting together, and he was alone at another, presumably waiting for Jane to show. If Jane’s dad was an abuser, Jane would have hit him with it when he was on the phone with the cops. She’s manipulative enough to do that. ---
**Author:** ![troub](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troub/32/14802_2.png) [@troub](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/troub)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-24-may/497527/45 "2009-05-26T14:31:19Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Didn’t he say during the episode in the desert that they were almost out of that chemical that they stole from the warehouse? So fairly soon he’s going to have a problem with raw ingredients. He told Jesse it was going bad, or deteriorating, so that he would help him cook that big batch that weekend. Remember, Walt thought he was dying soon and needed a lot of money quickly, but Jesse didn’t feel any urgency and wanted to hang out with his girlfriend instead. So Walt made up the thing about the chemicals going bad to give Jesse the choice–we cook NOW, or we have to steal another drum. That got Jesse to go along, but he did eventually catch onto the fact that it was a lie, and Walt had other reasons for urgency. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Scrivener](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@The\_Scrivener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Scrivener)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-24-may/497527/46 "2009-05-26T15:26:55Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > I just don’t get why people keep saying this. Aside from Walt and the viewers, no one knows there was a crime committed. Jane was high on heroin and aspirated her own vomit. There was no murder, and I highly doubt the police would be dusting for fingerprints or looking for evidence that anyone besides Jesse was there. It’s really not remotely a suspicious death. Police involvement would be minimal, and if Jesse has the sense to remove his works and drugs from the apartment before the police arrive, I doubt he will be charged with anything. If he wanted to avoid all entanglements, Jesse might move Jane to her own apartment to be discovered. Other than that, I really doubt Jesse stands to be in any legal trouble as a result of Jane’s death, except for being evicted post haste. Yeah, it’s tragic, but you can’t really dust for vomit. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-24-may/497527/47 "2009-05-26T18:41:35Z")
> [@don\_t\_ask](#): > > Jane’s careful attitude with Jesse, making sure he was on his side, had nothing to do with foreshadowing. It was the revelation that Jesse was about to be screwed out of everything. He had just revealed that someone that Jane didn’t know “owed” him $480,000. She was making damn sure that he didn’t choke on his own vomit before she could get her hands on the money. I don’t think that’s it. Sure, she wants them to get the money - but she genuinely cares for Jesse, and wants a life with him. The first thing she says when they get the cash is that, sure, they’ll go fly off to New Zealand - but they both need to get clean first. ---
**Author:** ![Erasmus\_Darwin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@Erasmus\_Darwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erasmus_Darwin)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-24-may/497527/48 "2009-05-26T19:05:20Z")
> [@Prelude\_to\_Fascination](#): > > Jane died because Walt shook Jesse, and so she rolled over from her side to her back. Had she stayed on her side, that is, if Walt hadn’t shaken Jesse, she may still have vomited, but right onto Jesse’s head. > > I can’t see a “crime” has been committed as far as Walt not helping Jane, but (and this is just me) I think he had a _moral_ obligation to help her – insomuch as one human being helps another not die. Considering he put her in the situation that led to her death, I can’t see how there isn’t a crime there. If she had rolled over on her own and he did nothing, we’d be having a different debate. If she choked on her vomit after Walt left, we’d also be having a different debate. But it was Walt’s actions that (accidentally) endangered Jane, and his subsequent failure to correct the situation that led to her death. I’m not sure of the exact legal definitions, but I can’t imagine that not falling under some sort of negligent homicide. Since it was his shaking that led to her choking, you can’t argue that he wasn’t involved, and since he watched her choke, her death was quite foreseeable. > [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > I don’t think that’s it. Sure, she wants them to get the money - but she genuinely cares for Jesse, and wants a life with him. I agree. The scene with setting Jesse up on his side paralleled the same scene with Walt setting the baby on her side. In particular, they each stuck a cylindrically rolled cloth behind the back of the sleeper. I think some people missed the point earlier when they misinterpreted the Walt/baby scene as merely an inept attempt by the writers to indicate that Walt would later understand why Jane was choking. Instead, it was to draw a comparison between Walt’s love and care for his child and Jane’s similar feelings toward Jesse. ---
**Author:** ![Tarwater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9de0a6/32.png) [@Tarwater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tarwater)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-24-may/497527/49 "2009-05-26T19:13:18Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > I don’t think that’s it. Sure, she wants them to get the money - but she genuinely cares for Jesse, and wants a life with him. The first thing she says when they get the cash is that, sure, they’ll go fly off to New Zealand - but they both need to get clean first. This is something all junkies say. She may have felt something for Jesse before the relapse, but her bluster about getting clean and moving was less an indication of those feelings than it was of how desperate her situation had become. It’s impossible to love somebody when you’re an addict. All you can focus on is the drug. ---
**Author:** ![Tarwater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9de0a6/32.png) [@Tarwater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tarwater)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-24-may/497527/50 "2009-05-26T19:37:21Z")
> [@Erasmus\_Darwin](#): > > I think some people missed the point earlier when they misinterpreted the Walt/baby scene as merely an inept attempt by the writers to indicate that Walt would later understand why Jane was choking. Instead, it was to draw a comparison between Walt’s love and care for his child and Jane’s similar feelings toward Jesse. I don’t think so. The writers weren’t showing that both had similar feelings, but that both were in a similar situation. Walt and Jesse are both addicts, I think. With Jesse, it’s heroin. With Walt, it’s this crazy, mid-life crisis thing he’s got going on. And Walt certainly isn’t in a position to love his child. He missed her birth so he could make a drug deal. He lied to her mother about where he had been. Recall the scene where he took his newborn child to the laundry room and peeled back the insulation to show her the money, and how he kept telling her that he had done all of that for her. That wasn’t love. That was Walt needing recognition. And you could make a similar argument for the high-tech perimeter he plans to put around the pool: it wasn’t him protecting his child out of the goodness of his heart, but him feeling like he needs to justify all the terrible things he has done. What gave me hope for Walt was his reaction to Jesse. It’s the first altruistic thing he’s done since the beginning of the series. It was wrong to let Jane die, but he was doing it to protect Jesse. I hope. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-24-may/497527/51 "2009-05-26T20:08:35Z")
> [@Erasmus\_Darwin](#): > > I think some people missed the point earlier when they misinterpreted the Walt/baby scene as merely an inept attempt by the writers to indicate that Walt would later understand why Jane was choking. Instead, it was to draw a comparison between Walt’s love and care for his child and Jane’s similar feelings toward Jesse. That was me, and I think you’re right, or more right than I was. I do think that the importance of side-lying posture for just-fed babies and junkies was something the writers wanted to show us, but it’s also true that it showed Jane trying to take good care of Jesse. Loved Jesse’s comment about Jane painting castles in New Zealand. You know he thought he’d be able to visit the Shire, walk around Minas Tirith, etc. Poor Jesse. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-24-may/497527/52 "2009-05-26T20:25:58Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > He’s never going to quit. The money is his rationalization. He gets off on being a drug lord. Oh, I have no doubt of that, I was just meaning in comparison to his not needing Jesse anymore, he also doesn’t need to cook, at least not for the reasons he started. He needs to do what he does now because he gets a feeling of power. He also gets power from bossing Jesse around (though he does really care about him too), so he won’t just dump Jesse because he can cook on his own and has a new distributer. Like he told Chicken-man, he keeps him around because he does what he says. I think I rewrote my last post too many times and it didn’t come out right in the last edit. :o > [@Prelude\_to\_Fascination](#): > > But Walt killed Crazy Eight and Tuco Walt didn’t kill Tuco, his brother-in-law killed Tuco. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-24-may/497527/53 "2009-05-26T20:27:08Z")
I’m not sure why everyone keeps saying that Walt committed some sort of crime in regards to Jane. Does NM (or any other state in the US) have a Good Samaritan law on the books? I’ve always heard that the US doesn’t have these types of laws so if someone is dying and you don’t help them, you’re not liable in any way - as long as you don’t directly cause their death. Walt shook Jesse awake which caused Jane to roll over and aspirate on her vomit, but Walt sure didn’t make her shoot up the heroin which led to her death. No way would he be found liable in a court of law for this. A civil suit, maybe, but even that’s a stretch. Here is info on [“Duty to Rescue” laws](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duty_to_rescue)… From what I can read, Walt still wouldn’t be held liable here: ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-24-may/497527/54 "2009-05-26T20:30:21Z")
> [@Tarwater](#): > > I don’t think so. The writers weren’t showing that both had similar feelings, but that both were in a similar situation. Walt and Jesse are both addicts, I think. With Jesse, it’s heroin. With Walt, it’s this crazy, mid-life crisis thing he’s got going on. > > And Walt certainly isn’t in a position to love his child. He missed her birth so he could make a drug deal. He lied to her mother about where he had been. Recall the scene where he took his newborn child to the laundry room and peeled back the insulation to show her the money, and how he kept telling her that he had done all of that for her. That wasn’t love. That was Walt needing recognition. And you could make a similar argument for the high-tech perimeter he plans to put around the pool: it wasn’t him protecting his child out of the goodness of his heart, but him feeling like he needs to justify all the terrible things he has done. > > What gave me hope for Walt was his reaction to Jesse. It’s the first altruistic thing he’s done since the beginning of the series. It was wrong to let Jane die, but he was doing it to protect Jesse. I hope. Missing his child’s birth doesn’t necessarily mean Walt doesn’t love her. There was 1.2 million dollars at stake and Walt only had one hour before the opportunity would disappear forever. Just because Walt has other reasons besides his daughter for dealing doesn’t mean he doesn’t love her. I think he does love his child and he is also using her to justify his drug dealing. ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-24-may/497527/55 "2009-05-26T20:45:44Z")
> [@HelloNinja](#): > > I’m not sure why everyone keeps saying that Walt committed some sort of crime in regards to Jane. Does NM (or any other state in the US) have a Good Samaritan law on the books? I’ve always heard that the US doesn’t have these types of laws so if someone is dying and you don’t help them, you’re not liable in any way - as long as you don’t directly cause their death. > > Walt shook Jesse awake which caused Jane to roll over and aspirate on her vomit, but Walt sure didn’t make her shoot up the heroin which led to her death. No way would he be found liable in a court of law for this. A civil suit, maybe, but even that’s a stretch. > > Here is info on [“Duty to Rescue” laws](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duty_to_rescue)… From what I can read, Walt still wouldn’t be held liable here: From your cite: > [@](#): > > A duty to rescue arises where a person creates a hazardous situation. If another person then falls into peril because of this hazardous situation, the creator of the hazard – who may not necessarily have been a negligent tortfeasor – has a duty to rescue the individual in peril. It all depends on what New Mexico law requires from the creator of a hazardous situation. Can the situation be created by accident or does there have to be negligence? Walt would go free if there has to be a hazardous situation created by his negligence, but would be liable if the situation could be created by accident. However, if a jury heard the facts as seen on the show, Walt would probably go to jail on any plausible legal theory. What he did was rather subhuman. ---
**Author:** ![Tarwater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9de0a6/32.png) [@Tarwater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tarwater)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-24-may/497527/56 "2009-05-26T20:55:50Z")
> [@Lakai](#): > > Missing his child’s birth doesn’t necessarily mean Walt doesn’t love her. There was 1.2 million dollars at stake and Walt only had one hour before the opportunity would disappear forever. Just because Walt has other reasons besides his daughter for dealing doesn’t mean he doesn’t love her. I think he does love his child and he is also using her to justify his drug dealing. It wasn’t only missing her birth. It’s in everything he does. The example I gave earlier, of him in the laundry room, illustrates this perfectly: he’s telling his daughter he’s done all of this for her, but if you remember the scene, you’ll recall how proudly he looks at the money. It’s really striking. He’s holding his daughter in his arms, but he’s so self-involved at this point that all he can do is congratulate himself on being such an excellent father. I think Walt is capable of loving his daughter (like I think Jane was capable of loving Jesse), but he’s too wrapped up in his addiction to feel something for anybody but himself. Pretty typical junkie. But like I said, I think his allowing Jane to die may have been a breakthrough moment for him. I think the most striking parallel made in this episode is the one between Jesse’s money and Walt’s daughter. Both are (supposedly) the reason for the meth operation, but both have taken a back-seat to something else entirely; an addiction, something that came about as a side-effect of their drug-dealing. ---
**Author:** ![Hockey\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a183cd/32.png) [@Hockey\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hockey_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-24-may/497527/57 "2009-05-26T21:03:22Z")
Walt allowed Jane to die not out of any fatherly love for Jesse but because Jane had threatened to squeal. Her death is a lot more iron clad than promises she might have made not to tell. With her dead, Walt is safer. For a moment before Jane started vomiting, I thought Walt was going to give her and overdose. He picked up the needle and looked at it and I could just see the cogs turning in his brain about how he could do it. He’s turned into a cold-hearted bastard and I think he was crying because he realized he’s lost most of his humanity, not because it grieved him for Jane to die. ---
**Author:** ![bytheway](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df705f/32.png) [@bytheway](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bytheway)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-24-may/497527/58 "2009-05-26T21:42:46Z")
> [@Hockey\_Monkey](#): > > For a moment before Jane started vomiting, I thought Walt was going to give her and overdose. He picked up the needle and looked at it and I could just see the cogs turning in his brain about how he could do it. I interpreted his action of picking up the needle as his confirmation that Jane & Jesse were in a drug-induced stupor. I love this show and am looking forward to the season finale. My money is on Jane’s dad being in the second body bag (and Jane in the first). ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-24-may/497527/59 "2009-05-26T22:06:06Z")
Every episode of the show generates at least one “holy shit!” from me. Great show. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-24-may/497527/60 "2009-05-26T22:21:18Z")
> [@bytheway](#): > > I interpreted his action of picking up the needle as his confirmation that Jane & Jesse were in a drug-induced stupor. Yep… After they said they were going to get clean and leave town, and that they were going to dump the drugs they had left, they ended up shooting up anyway. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-24-may/497527.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-24-may/497527.md?page=4)