# Breaking Bad 4.09 "Bug" 9/11 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 11, 2011, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-09-bug-9-11/595986 "2011-09-11T22:59:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2011, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-09-bug-9-11/595986/61 "2011-09-12T22:38:08Z")
> [@Tarwater](#): > > I can imagine the series ending when Jesse discovers that Walt was involved in Jane’s death. If he reacts so brutally to Walt’s bugging his car, I can only imagine that he’d end up beating Walt to death if he ever found out that Walt was involved with Jane’s death. Speaking of which, can somebody remind me: > > Mike showed up to clean Jesse’s apartment and coach him on how to respond to the incoming paramedics and the inevitable police inquiry. He did this at the Walt’s request. Did the writers ever reveal how much Walt told Mike about the cause of Jane’s death? Is it possible that he could’ve told Mike more information than he should have – enough to arouse in Mike a suspicion that Walt was at Jesse’s apartment the night of Jane’s death? > > At the end of the series, I can see Mike having a discussion with Jesse about the night of Jane’s death, and Jesse growing increasingly suspicious that Walt would know certain particulars. He questions Walt who, already calloused by his actions in the previous four seasons, does nothing to dispel the notion that he was at Jesse’s apartment that night. Or he ends up letting the information slip in another way. I’m recalling one of the early episodes of the third season, where Skyler questions Walt about the origins of his income. She accuses Walt of dealing marijuana, and by the expression on his face, comes to realize that it’s far worse than that. I can imagine a scenario where Jesse broaches the subject of Jane’s death, and Walt, so taken off-guard, is unable to compose himself in time. It’s not like Walt killed her. I think way too much is being made of Walt not stepping in to prevent a junkie from dying from her own foolish actions. Sure he felt guilty on Jesse’s behalf, but the writers already dealt with that in that “bottle episode” last season, rehashing it now, meh, whatever, move on. edit:“move on” not intended to tell you to move on from talking about the subject, more I hope the writers consider the issue settled and _they_ have moved on. ---
**Author:** ![Tarwater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9de0a6/32.png) [@Tarwater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tarwater)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2011, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-09-bug-9-11/595986/62 "2011-09-12T22:42:52Z")
Walt caused her death. She wouldn’t have died if he hadn’t knocked her onto her back. Whether or not that amounts to murder is debatable. Personally, I don’t think it passes muster. But involuntary manslaughter, sure. And regardless, if Jesse found out that Jane died as a direct result of Walt’s action, I doubt it’ll make a difference to him whether it’s murder or manslaughter. ---
**Author:** ![interface2x](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c0e974/32.png) [@interface2x](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/interface2x)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2011, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-09-bug-9-11/595986/63 "2011-09-12T23:09:18Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > ETA: Oh and the sniper was also Gus’s man, which is why he didn’t shoot Gus. The idea being to scare Jesse into giving up the recipe. Nope, it was definitely the same guy that the Cartel sent to give Gus the ultimatum. ---
**Author:** ![Covered\_In\_Bees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ab992/32.png) [@Covered\_In\_Bees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Covered_In_Bees)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-09-bug-9-11/595986/64 "2011-09-13T00:45:15Z")
Here’s how I think things are going to go down, Gus is going to get Hank onto the cartel’s activity in the United States and the DEA will soon be all over _their_ asses and be like, “Gus who?” Also, suggesting Gus is getting Jesse to reveal Walt’s recipe to one of his own new backup chemists is very clever and seems very plausible to me. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-09-bug-9-11/595986/65 "2011-09-13T01:04:53Z")
I have a feeling something really big is going to happen that reveals we’ve been “mindfucked” with a little bit. I don’t know why, but I just get that impression. A few different thoughts I have: 1. Maybe Jesse and Walt staged a fight in Jesse’s house because they know it is bugged and wanted to make Gus trust Jesse completely. The scene where Walt shows visible shock at the readings of the GPS tracker obviously undermine that theory pretty massively. 1. Hank started the show as a brash obnoxious blow hard, but in reality he has always been a very shrewd investigator and pretty much everyone who has ever underestimated him has not ended up on the good end of things. Is it possible Hank really is onto Walt being part of all this? I think he knows Gus is the big fish but I find it very strange that it _has_ to be Walt that helps him with the GPS thing. Could it be that he’s really wanting to gauge Walt’s reaction to the whole thing? Additionally, as a trained DEA agent why hasn’t Hank noticed Mike and Victor tailing him during their outings? I wouldn’t be shocked if a big reveal at the end of the season is Hank confronting Walt with his knowledge and offering to help him get out from under all of it by turning on Gus. I then suspect Hank is killed at the end of the season because there is a whole 16 episode season left after this one. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-09-bug-9-11/595986/66 "2011-09-13T01:26:05Z")
> [@Covered\_In\_Bees](#): > > Also, suggesting Gus is getting Jesse to reveal Walt’s recipe to one of his own new backup chemists is very clever and seems very plausible to me. Yeah, I don’t know if that’s actually happening, but it’s at least something that ought to be crossing Walt and Jesse’s minds. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-09-bug-9-11/595986/67 "2011-09-13T01:37:18Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > 1. Hank started the show as a brash obnoxious blow hard, but in reality he has always been a very shrewd investigator and pretty much everyone who has ever underestimated him has not ended up on the good end of things. Is it possible Hank really is onto Walt being part of all this? I think he knows Gus is the big fish but I find it very strange that it _has_ to be Walt that helps him with the GPS thing. Could it be that he’s really wanting to gauge Walt’s reaction to the whole thing? Additionally, as a trained DEA agent why hasn’t Hank noticed Mike and Victor tailing him during their outings? I wouldn’t be shocked if a big reveal at the end of the season is Hank confronting Walt with his knowledge and offering to help him get out from under all of it by turning on Gus. > > I then suspect Hank is killed at the end of the season because there is a whole 16 episode season left after this one. I suspect this is the most likely. As you mentioned, Hank really has been treating Walt differently for the past few episodes. Perhaps his hope is to make sure he’s right and then get him and Sky into witness protection after he figures out how involved he/they are. As for Mike following them, that’s where I’m lost. I mentioned that same thing up thread. You’d really think he would have noticed that by now and if he had, you’d think he would have aborted this mission knowing it’s probably going to get him killed. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-09-bug-9-11/595986/68 "2011-09-13T02:05:48Z")
> [@Tarwater](#): > > Walt caused her death. She wouldn’t have died if he hadn’t knocked her onto her back. Whether or not that amounts to murder is debatable. Personally, I don’t think it passes muster. But involuntary manslaughter, sure. And regardless, if Jesse found out that Jane died as a direct result of Walt’s action, I doubt it’ll make a difference to him whether it’s murder or manslaughter. What are you talking about? I don’t remember him “knocking her on her back” at all… I remember him coming in to the apartment, noticing her choking on her own vomit, and doing nothing to save her. It was merely a sin of inaction. In any case the poster who said we’ve moved on from that is right - it was addressed in _Fly_ and it won’t come up again. Seriously folks, forget about Jane. ---
**Author:** ![Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8baadc/32.png) [@Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nicest_of_the_Damned)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-09-bug-9-11/595986/69 "2011-09-13T02:13:41Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > As for Mike following them, that’s where I’m lost. I mentioned that same thing up thread. You’d really think he would have noticed that by now… Well, Mike’s job involves skills like following people without being noticed. Hank is good but I could believe that Mike is better. Plus Mike has a bit of an advantage. Hank has no real reason to think he is being followed and is probably not particularly on alert. Mike knows Hank is a pro and he needs to be very careful. On another topic, I am really enjoying the songs they are dusting off to play at the car wash. Thomas Dolby - Hyperactive. Last time it was The Fixx. I haven’t heard them in years. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-09-bug-9-11/595986/70 "2011-09-13T02:19:51Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > I suspect this is the most likely. As you mentioned, Hank really has been treating Walt differently for the past few episodes. Perhaps his hope is to make sure he’s right and then get him and Sky into witness protection after he figures out how involved he/they are. I highly doubt it. It wouldn’t make much sense to go through the trouble of going with Walt to put a tracking device on Gus’s car if you know Gus and Walt are working together. > [@](#): > > As for Mike following them, that’s where I’m lost. I mentioned that same thing up thread. You’d really think he would have noticed that by now and if he had, you’d think he would have aborted this mission knowing it’s probably going to get him killed. Not only does Hank have no reason to suspect he’d be followed, but since he wasn’t driving, he has no awareness of who is behind him, with no use of the mirrors. > [@Rigamarole](#): > > What are you talking about? I don’t remember him “knocking her on her back” at all… I remember him coming in to the apartment, noticing her choking on her own vomit, and doing nothing to save her. It was merely a sin of inaction. Jesse and Jane were spooning, Walt tried to shake Jesse awake and Jane got sort of nudged from lying on her side to lying on her back. She wasn’t choking at all when he first walked in. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-09-bug-9-11/595986/71 "2011-09-13T02:28:39Z")
> [@Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](#): > > Well, Mike’s job involves skills like following people without being noticed. Hank is good but I could believe that Mike is better. Plus Mike has a bit of an advantage. Hank has no real reason to think he is being followed and is probably not particularly on alert. Mike knows Hank is a pro and he needs to be very careful. True, but the first time Walt and Hank went on a field trip to the chicken place Mike pulled up right next to them. Obviously it was meant as a warning to Walt to let him know that he [Mike] is watching him. But in reality, the way Walt jumped I’d think most passengers would have turned around to see what was going on behind them. At some point it seems like Hank is going to ask Walt\* why he’s always so damn jumpy. The whole premise just doesn’t feel right to me. Hank has always been really good at making phone calls and putting things together. It just seems so forced to have him playing the rogue detective like this. I know it’s the writers just setting him up to get him into Walt’s world, but it still seems a bit out of character. Unless we find out that the other two DEA agents that dismissed Hank’s evidence are on Gus’ payroll, this jump will always feel like kind of a rough/forced transition. Assuming that’s where they go with it. Of course it’s been so long since we’ve seen him in the field I guess I just don’t remember what he was like back then. \*Hank, Walt, Mike. Since this show has started I always get tripped up with these three four letter names. I have to actively think about who I’m referring to each time. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-09-bug-9-11/595986/72 "2011-09-13T02:28:47Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > Jesse and Jane were spooning, Walt tried to shake Jesse awake and Jane got sort of nudged from lying on her side to lying on her back. She wasn’t choking at all when he first walked in. Ah OK, that sounds right. Still doesn’t really count as killing her or even causing her death IMO, but as I said, we’ve moved on long ago and this is a non-issue. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-09-bug-9-11/595986/73 "2011-09-13T02:31:27Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > Jesse and Jane were spooning, Walt tried to shake Jesse awake and Jane got sort of nudged from lying on her side to lying on her back. She wasn’t choking at all when he first walked in. Exactly. Moreover, Jane was very well aware that aspirating one’s own vomit is a danger with heroin use, and knew precisely how to mitigate it: She made damn sure Jesse stayed on his side while they used, and certainly took care that she did so herself. Junkies are fall from infallible, of course, but Jane was a relatively competent one - I think it’s fair to say that absent Walt’s intervention, Jane would almost certainly still be alive. If Walt had expended even a token effort once things started going bad, Jane would still be alive. Jesse has excellent reason to blame Walt for Jane’s death. ---
**Author:** ![Bytegeist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9dc877/32.png) [@Bytegeist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bytegeist)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-09-bug-9-11/595986/74 "2011-09-13T02:38:44Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > What are you talking about? I don’t remember him “knocking her on her back” at all… I remember him coming in to the apartment, noticing her choking on her own vomit, and doing nothing to save her. It was merely a sin of inaction. Right. [Here’s the scene](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjGSEYQIWak), on YouTube. Walt never touches her. She does start out on her side, but rolls onto her back on her own, when the seizure starts. ---
**Author:** ![Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8baadc/32.png) [@Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nicest_of_the_Damned)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-09-bug-9-11/595986/75 "2011-09-13T02:39:54Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > Hank has always been really good at making phone calls and putting things together. True, but he has always had a blind spot where Walt is concerned. I especially liked the time Hank was helping Walt move and he lifted the heavy bag of money and asked what he had in there. Walt told him it was a million dollars and he just laughed. Even if he had looked up and seen Mike in the car there was really nothing out of the ordinary about him. But it does seem like the writers are moving Hank towards getting more suspicious and finding out the truth. They are just moving there slowly. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-09-bug-9-11/595986/76 "2011-09-13T02:48:59Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > Jesse has excellent reason to blame Walt for Jane’s death. IMO, Jesse had the same amount or more reason to blame himself. He should never have told Jane about their business. He should have realized that Walt was right about the reason for not giving him all the money. He shouldn’t have allowed Jane to basically blackmail Walt into giving them the money. And lastly, he was the one who started using heroin and got Jane to do the same. If I were in Walt’s position, (although I’d never put myself in his position) after the way Jane threatened him the way she did, I would have done the same thing. With the amount of money those two had to feed their habit, either or both of them were going to die, probably sooner than later. Sounds cold, but better her than Jesse. Had it been Jesse, and she lived, she would have probably continued to blackmail Walt whenever she blew/lost all the money. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-09-bug-9-11/595986/77 "2011-09-13T02:51:14Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > Ah OK, that sounds right. Still doesn’t really count as killing her or even causing her death IMO, but as I said, we’ve moved on long ago and this is a non-issue. Non-issue for whom? Not for the writers. Walt came close to telling Jesse in S3 – in the fly episode, I think it was, when Jesse had to get Walt doped up to calm him down. Something that big has to resurface. I don’t think Hank’s hiding anything, with regard to suspicions about Walt. Hank’s excited about what he’s doing and if he even notices Walt’s skittishness, he’ll figure it’s because Walt’s a wimpy high school teacher. If Walt was **calm** , then Hank might wonder about him. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-09-bug-9-11/595986/78 "2011-09-13T03:00:15Z")
> [@Bytegeist](#): > > Right. [Here’s the scene](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjGSEYQIWak), on YouTube. > > Walt never touches her. She does start out on her side, but rolls onto her back on her own, when the seizure starts. I don’t know how you watch that scene and come to that conclusion. She rolls onto her back, not on her own, but from Walt shaking Jesse. There is no seizure that causes her to roll onto her back; she chokes on her own vomit after rolling onto her back. Regardless of how she rolled over or who caused it, Walt could have easily flipped her on her side and saved her life. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-09-bug-9-11/595986/79 "2011-09-13T03:42:44Z")
Just as we never saw the results of Walt’s scan we never saw Jesse’s talk with Andrea. I wonder if anything significant happened there; it seems odd to have him leave Saul in the car to go talk to her if it’s irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-09-bug-9-11/595986/80 "2011-09-13T05:17:29Z")
It’s not strange that Walt is nervous when Hank asks him to plant the bug. He thinks what Hank is doing is illegal and he doesn’t want to be a part of it, it would be a normal reaction. Walt’s cancer is back. He smokes the cigarette and then Jesse asks “Don’t you have enough cancer?” and gets no reaction. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-09-bug-9-11/595986.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-09-bug-9-11/595986.md?page=5)