# Breaking Bad 4.13 "Face Off" 10/9 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 10, 2011, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-13-face-off-10-9/599130 "2011-10-10T00:22:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-13-face-off-10-9/599130/101 "2011-10-10T16:42:52Z")
> [@nivlac](#): > > That was the first time that Tyrus visited Hector – he swept the room for bugs and such. But when Gus showed up, he sent Tyrus in again to check things out. That’s when Tyrus didn’t do a very good job of finding anything. The bomb wasn’t exactly a tiny thing like a bug.". I think bug detectors work mainly by detecting an outgoing radio signal. A bomb isnt going to have that. Though I do admit it didn’t look particularly well hidden. I think they should have just shown Hector ringing the bell, Gus going “oh shit” then the explosion as seen from outside the room. The viewers didn’t have to actually SEE the bomb (we can put 2 and 2 together after the fact you know). ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-13-face-off-10-9/599130/102 "2011-10-10T16:44:43Z")
Anyone think that Bryan Cranston had some great “Hal” moments in this episode? Putting the bomb in the diaper bag, then the diaper bag as a magnet, then coming through and exiting through that little window in Saul’s office, then throwing himself over his backyard wall to escape. Sending the neighbor in to the house is something that Malcolm’s family would do, too (from the above-linked interview, we find out that the neighbor lady is Vince Gilligan’s mom). ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-13-face-off-10-9/599130/103 "2011-10-10T16:50:35Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > In this episode, Walter White undergoes a radical, experimental face transplant procedure to look like Gus Fring, so that he can destroy his operation from within. This made me go :eek:. I’m thinking “How did SeniorBeef see the episode before anyone else?” 😃 > [@](#): > > How appropriate that the Chicken Man would continue moving after his head was blown off… (I know, it wasn’t blown off… but the analogy is still fitting, I think) **Bob Ducca** , that’s hysterical. I’m still vaguely dissatisfied at the machinations necessary to get the ricin from Jesse and the berries to Brock, but I can’t think of another way they could do it without tipping us off that Walt was behind it. It’s like the writers wanted that shocking last scene, and the shock was what was important to them – more important than giving us a plan that made sense. ---
**Author:** ![stoplight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@stoplight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stoplight)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-13-face-off-10-9/599130/104 "2011-10-10T16:53:18Z")
I am for one am grateful they closed the Gus chapter out and did not leave us totally off a cliff like they had with Gayle. I will enjoy the time off and await patiently the new chapter. But a couple questions… 1. I was not at all left with the feeling that Walt poisoned the kid…the look on his face when Jesse told him the kid would be okay had me thinking he actually meant to poison the mom which I think he could’ve lived with but not have lived with killing a child…afterall he has a newborn and relates…I believe it was a mistake. 2. This is not the first time we have heard about Lilly of the Valley. I swear I heard Walt mention it to somebody in Season 2 or 3. My wife is a horticulturalist and when Jesse mentions the Lilly is common to Walt, she jumps up amongst all our friends viewing the finale and states it is not common in the ABQ but can be ordered by a local nursery…funny moment…but if true…Walt just created a paper trail…vague as it might be. 3. So Walt is a bad ass and Heisenberg is back without the bad guy hat I was so hoping he would slide on when looking at Gus’s car while departing the parking structure. But Mike…I imagine loyal to the one in charge so Mike now becomes Walt’s cleaner…I like the connection. 4. Beneke…a loose end 5. DEA will now be intensely on the trail…what side will Hank land on… 6. add to the who did Walt kill list… Walt killed Jesse’s first girlfiend, could have easily intervened but chose to watch her choke out…yep…he a bad ass… that moment when he realizes she is dying and does nothing still resonates with me…a powerful acting moment…and not a word spoken…brilliant acting… ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-13-face-off-10-9/599130/105 "2011-10-10T16:56:42Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > This made me go :eek:. I’m thinking “How did SeniorBeef see the episode before anyone else?” 😃 That was my vague recollection of the plot of the movie Face/Off, I was just being a jackass. The episode did end up taking the title quite literally though. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-13-face-off-10-9/599130/106 "2011-10-10T17:12:48Z")
Nitpick for no one in particular: the name of the plant is Lily of the Valley, not Lilly of the Valley. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-13-face-off-10-9/599130/107 "2011-10-10T17:20:33Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I don’t think the investigation of Gus’ death would lead back to Walt. The cartel will be assumed to be behind it. The DEA (not a word! great gag) will consider Gus to be Heisenberg, that’s where Hank was taking them. Hank has raised his status at the DEA since he got the location of the meth lab and identified Gus as Heisenberg. I was slow on the uptake with that. I was thinking “What is that last word??? Maybe it’s going to spell “DEAD”. “NEED DEAD.” Oh my god, Walt’s plan involves Tio being dead.” Turns out I was wrong… and also right. ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-13-face-off-10-9/599130/108 "2011-10-10T17:35:25Z")
Here are links to the awesome songs used in this episode: [Goodbye by Apparat](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqEaZx4ibUA) (Gus’s swan song) [Freestyle by the Taalbi Brothers](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nTGSfbP-N8) (meth lab being destroyed) [Black by Danger Mouse and Daniele Luppi featuring Nora Jones](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3yAx2uCoHs) (during the final shot) ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-13-face-off-10-9/599130/109 "2011-10-10T17:41:58Z")
When Walt and Jesse first suited up in the lab, I thought that they were going to cook one last time so they’d have a stash of meth they could sell on their own. But I think that what they did was probably better. BTW, will the next season pick up immediately after this one, so that we see the DEA and ATF investigating the explosion and tracing Gus Fring’s meth operation? Or will it be a few months later, and only peripherally mention Gus? ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-13-face-off-10-9/599130/110 "2011-10-10T17:59:04Z")
Anybody else think that post-boom Gus looked a lot like The Terminator? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-13-face-off-10-9/599130/111 "2011-10-10T18:02:32Z")
I did. > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > That scene in the nursing home was great. When Gus walked out of the room, I thought, “How could he survive that?” And then they switched to the other shot, and then I thought he was a terminator. Until he fell over dead. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-13-face-off-10-9/599130/112 "2011-10-10T18:14:12Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Anybody else think that post-boom Gus looked a lot like The Terminator? Maybe not a coincidence that Jesse called Gus the Terminator after he faced down that sniper. ---
**Author:** ![Invisible\_Chimp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f05b48/32.png) [@Invisible\_Chimp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Invisible_Chimp)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-13-face-off-10-9/599130/113 "2011-10-10T18:44:05Z")
> [@Stowed\_Bob](#): > > I view it as his circle of empathy has shrunk. He only cares about himself and his family now, including Hank. Everyone else can live or die and it won’t affect him in the least. My prediction for next season is that his circle of empathy shrinks even more and in order to save his own skin, he kills someone in his family, either Hank or Jesse, his surrogate son. I see those three in a standoff at the end of the series; Jesse shoots Walt, Walt shoots Hank, and Hank shoots Jesse. > [@AuntiePam](#): > > I’m still vaguely dissatisfied at the machinations necessary to get the ricin from Jesse and the berries to Brock, but I can’t think of another way they could do it without tipping us off that Walt was behind it. It’s like the writers wanted that shocking last scene, and the shock was what was important to them – more important than giving us a plan that made sense. I’m very dissatisfied with it. I have to accept it because there isn’t any other plausible explanation. Saul’s goon wasn’t very successful in the Ted fiasco, but I guess he’s an expert pickpocket. It still leaves the burning question of whether the ricin cigarette was destroyed or if it is still floating around somewhere. If it was destroyed, how? I don’t think flushing ricin down the toilet would be a wise move. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-13-face-off-10-9/599130/114 "2011-10-10T18:52:23Z")
Maybe I’m really stupid but why did Walt need to poison the kid? He planned and carried out the plot against Gus without Jessie’s help. Why did he need Jessie? Did he just want to get him back on his side? ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-13-face-off-10-9/599130/115 "2011-10-10T18:53:24Z")
> [@Invisible\_Chimp](#): > > I’m very dissatisfied with it. I have to accept it because there isn’t any other plausible explanation. Saul’s goon wasn’t very successful in the Ted fiasco, but I guess he’s an expert pickpocket. It still leaves the burning question of whether the ricin cigarette was destroyed or if it is still floating around somewhere. If it was destroyed, how? I don’t think flushing ricin down the toilet would be a wise move. Huell wasn’t exactly \*unsuccessful \*with the Ted situation. Ted ran, and then tripped. Not much Huell could have done about that. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-13-face-off-10-9/599130/116 "2011-10-10T18:55:34Z")
It’s an assumption the check got mailed to the IRS. We didn’t see them actually put it in a drop, and if they did there’s the “time of death v. time posted” since it’s a Fed-Ex (or something like it) and would have a pick-up time. I hope Honey Tits comes back next season. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-13-face-off-10-9/599130/117 "2011-10-10T19:07:24Z")
As I recall, Huell’s partner (I forget his name) told Saul “the check is in the mail”. I can’t see why he would lie about that, since it’s easy to mail the thing. ---
**Author:** ![nivlac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/3bc359/32.png) [@nivlac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nivlac)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-13-face-off-10-9/599130/118 "2011-10-10T19:13:57Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > Maybe I’m really stupid but why did Walt need to poison the kid? He planned and carried out the plot against Gus without Jessie’s help. Why did he need Jessie? Did he just want to get him back on his side? For one thing, Walt wouldn’t had known about Hector if not for Jesse. Jesse was Walt’s link to Gus. It’s the only way he could get close enough to Gus (figuratively) in order to kill him. He had to get Jesse back on his side. By blaming the poisoning on Gus, he accomplished that. Of course he took a big risk that Jesse wouldn’t had bought his argument, but he really had nothing to lose at that point since Gus had the hit on him. Remember in the previous episodes that Jesse told Walt to get lost. When Walt was spinning his gun he figured out that Jesse was the key to getting Gus and then he saw the plant. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-13-face-off-10-9/599130/119 "2011-10-10T19:16:14Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > What do you think they’d find on his computer? They were mostly the live feeds from the chicken joints, as well as from the laundromat which has now been destroyed. I doubt he kept recorded video on it, and I _know_ he wasn’t keeping a personal diary on there: > > “Dear diary, today Walter White cooked 40 pounds of meth for me. But, he’s becoming a problem so I’m going to have to blow his brains out.” > > Nah - Gus is way too careful for that. Some security programs automatically back up video for a certain number of hours. (The ones where I work go 48 hours, though they’re also crap- the one time we had a theft caught on them the suspect was a blurry guy who might be black wearing either a sweater or a coat on a cold day.) What I don’t know is if it would just automatically keep the last 48 hours once the camera is destroyed and the connection is lost. Apparently the poisoning caused by Lily of the Valley is less fatal than Ricin poisoning. I wonder if Walt deliberately took that into account. I wonder what would happen if that many high level players in Mexican and U.S. (southwest regional) organized crime were taken out. There have been a few times when various crime families lost several members in a short period of time (“The Night of the Sicilian Vespers” in 1931 was one of the real life inspirations for Michael’s 1955 consolidation of power in _The Godfather_ and there were numerous other organized crime wars that saw more than two leaders killed). I wonder if it would even blip on DEA radar or if the next in line or heir apparent or strong man would assume control in short order. ---
**Author:** ![nivlac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/3bc359/32.png) [@nivlac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nivlac)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-13-face-off-10-9/599130/120 "2011-10-10T19:30:02Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > I think bug detectors work mainly by detecting an outgoing radio signal. A bomb isnt going to have that. Though I do admit it didn’t look particularly well hidden. I think they should have just shown Hector ringing the bell, Gus going “oh shit” then the explosion as seen from outside the room. The viewers didn’t have to actually SEE the bomb (we can put 2 and 2 together after the fact you know). Yes, that would’ve been a better way to have shot the scene. That way we can infer that the bomb was not so visible and more reasonable that Tyrus and Gus wouldn’t had noticed it until too late. I can understand why they shot the scene as they did. It made the explosion scene much more dramatic: first Hector giving Gus the evil eye, Gus startled at Hector’s look, Hector frantically dinging the bell, Gus realizing what’s happening, then zooming in on the bomb with its little green light flickering in sync with the dinging, a final shot of a full-face Gus in horror, and BOOM! Great scene, so I’m not really complaining about how it turned out. It’s on par with the scene in Season 3 when Walt ran over those druggies, although this explosion was not as unexpected. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-13-face-off-10-9/599130.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-13-face-off-10-9/599130.md?page=7)