# Breaking Bad 4.13 "Face Off" 10/9 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 10, 2011, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-13-face-off-10-9/599130 "2011-10-10T00:22:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-13-face-off-10-9/599130/121 "2011-10-10T19:50:25Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Anybody else think that post-boom Gus looked a lot like The Terminator? I thought he looked like a newborn zombie. I wonder if they had the guys responsible for _The Walking Dead_ make-up do him. And to think the explosion and the deaths of the Cartel and however many others were all brought about by homophobic bullying. If only the “It gets better” ads had been around in the 1980s to inspire Gus. I would love to know the name of Giancarlo Esposito’s mother. He would fit in perfectly with members of a family that I knew when I was growing up and his mother was an African-American singer from Alabama, so idle curiosity has me wondering if she’s a member of the same family. (Esposito does not identify as an African-American, incidentally, but European; it’s not that he’s embarrassed of his black ancestry, but he was born in Denmark and raised in Naples and then an Italian neighborhood of NYC.) ETA: Regarding the bomb’s visibility, when I rewatched the scene you _can_ see it. However, it just looks like a tank on a wheelchair and Hector is on oxygen, so it’s not glaringly out of place to see a tank there. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-13-face-off-10-9/599130/122 "2011-10-10T19:59:30Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > I thought he looked like a newborn zombie. I wonder if they had the guys responsible for _The Walking Dead_ make-up do him. In one of the interviews I’ve read with Vince Gilligan (I think the NY Times interview, not Sepinwall) he said that indeed yes, he did have the makeup fx shop for Walking Dead do Gus’s makeup. He talks about how they did it also. I’ll go dig up the link and post it shortly, it was a good read. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-13-face-off-10-9/599130/123 "2011-10-10T20:00:36Z")
I like that when Gus falls you see the warped frame of an empty wheelchair behind him. Apparently Hector was blown across the room. They totally should get an Emmy for make-up/special effects for this one: you see Gus’s exposed skull, nerves, his tongue and teeth where his cheek has been blown off, and the pieces of face on his jacket are even the right size to correspond with missing facial chunks. I wonder how much of his missing face was make-up v. how much was CGI. (The cheek would have to be CGI since it was altogether gone.) ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-13-face-off-10-9/599130/124 "2011-10-10T20:02:05Z")
> [@Cubsfan](#): > > I’m disappointed that Hank didn’t make a Walt connection in the finale. Maybe he did and they simply didn’t show it. My guess is that Season 5 is going to be about Walt & Hank, one way or another. It has to be, because Hank is actually a smart guy and this is what Hank knows and sees: [ul] [li]He’s investigating Fring & the laundry…with Walt.[/li][li]Walt gets into a really weird and stupid accident rather than take him to the laundry.[/li][li]Suddenly, before Hank can go to the laundry with someone else, a threat comes out of nowhere against Hank, who is no longer on active duty.[/li][li]Walt never shows up to be protected along with everyone else after the warning.[/li][li]Tio Salamanca suddenly wants to talk to Hank, but really has nothing to say. [/li][li]Within hours, Tio, Gus, and the laundry are all blown to bits, erasing all traces of evidence (it is hoped!)[/li][li]And while we’re at it, let’s not forget that on top of all this, Walt has suddenly gone from nearly destitute to being able to buy a car wash for a million bucks.[/li][/ul] What is the only thing that one way or another, either by presence or absence, connects to all those things? Walt, the chemistry nerd. Hank would have to be unconscious not to put it together, even if he resists believing it. > [@Sampiro](#): > > I’m going to miss Giancarlo Esposito. My immediate emotional response to Gus dying was “NOOOOO!!! I LOVE GUS!” - which actually means, I love Giancarlo Esposito’s portrayal of Gus. But after hours of listening to Vince and Co on podcasts and commentaries, I will bet you dollars to donuts that they find a way and reasons to do Gus flashbacks next year that are never before seen, just because they love Giancarlo and Gus too. If you are as much of a devotee as I am and listen to all that stuff you will hear how often they have found ways and reasons to keep or bring back actors (Gale Boetticher via David Costabile) just because they love them so much, starting with Jesse/Aaron Paul, who was supposed to die in the first season! Giancarlo is adored by all, so I can’t see them not revisiting Gus once or twice. > [@](#): > > Mark Margolis (Tio Hector) should get an Emmy nomination for Outstanding Guest Star. Considering that all he has to work with is a bell, a few facial expressions, and breathing sounds he’s done a fantastic acting job on several episodes. Ditto X 10 > [@ExTank](#): > > The car bomb would have worked just fine, but Jesse let something slip (in his tone, manner, whatever) and Gus’ danger-sense started tingling. No car bomb for Gus. Jesse didn’t let anything slip, Gus just doesn’t often find himself in unfamiliar, unexpected locations on short notice, because that makes him vulnerable. Returning to the car, the naked, quiet, and exposed car, his highly developed spidey-sense reminded him that there is a _reason_ he doesn’t go to familiar, unexpected locations on short notice because it makes him vulnerable. Why risk it? He’s plenty wealthy enough to abandon his dumb car rather than risk it. But his intelligence alone, forget spidey sense, leads me to what I think is the one thing in this episode that requires the biggest suspension of disbelief the writers have ever demanded of us: > [@](#): > > This brings out Gus, who can’t afford to let Salamanca talk, as Walt well knows. Bada-bing-bada-boom, no more Gus. If these were real human beings, vs. TV characters that have to do certain things for the show to go on, Gus Fring, SuperSmart Insanely Forward-Thinking, Ludicrously Self-Preserving, Hyperintelligent Supervillian would never,ever, ever ever done something as obvious and as obviously stupid as personally go to Tio to kill him mere hours after Tio had spoken to the DEA. Never. Wild horses couldn’t have dragged him. Never, never never. But of all possible scenarios for getting Gus in an exposed location, it was the best the writers could do and given Gus’ ego investment in his hatred of Tio, it was the most believable, even though it wasn’t really believable at all, so I give it a pass. > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > That scene in the nursing home was great. When Gus walked out of the room, I thought, “How could he survive that?” And then they switched to the other shot, and then I thought he was a terminator. Until he fell over dead. My friend said sometimes people don’t always know they are dead right away. I thought it was completely unbelievable but I didn’t care at all because it was so cool. > [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > Also I had thought that Walt hadn’t gone to the level of risking the lives of innocents, but showing him getting his old lady neighbor to check out his house shows what he thinks of risking other people’s lives. He just told himself that no one would hurt her. Conveniently. > [@](#): > > Also Jesse broke my heart again, when he told Walt that it wasn’t ricin, but wanted reassurance that Gus still had to die. Yes! Thank you! Exactly! Ripped my heart out completely…right after I had been cheering over the two of them being so cool and in sync blowing up the laundry. Jesse had started to feel secure in himself and was bonding with Gus, now he feels lost again. KILLED me. > [@](#): > > Jesse is a mostly good person, just dragged through such horrible things. I know the show has to end badly for Walt, but I hope Jesse ends up okay. I realy want them both to be okay with each other, no matter what else happens. > [@nivlac](#): > > Skyler dealing with a bad ass husband. I think she’s going to get the hots for her hubby all over again and hate herself for it. > [@Sampiro](#): > > What’s Walt’s body count now? > > Am I missing any? Just about everybody, depending on your point of view. If Walt had never elected to become a meth dealer, pretty much everyone who has died in this show would still be alive, including the cartel guys, the illegal immigrants who got blown up by the terminator twins, the terminator twins themselves and everyone else they murdered on their way to murder Walt, the plane full of people, the two thugs (Gonzo and No-Doze) working for Tuco, Victor, Spooge, Andrea’s little brother Tomas, the two drug dealers who killed him, TED BENEKE, COMBO, Juan Bolsa (the cartel guy who died for the attack on Hank) all the guys Mike killed in Gus’ war with the cartel, the guys in the Pollos Hermanos trucks who died in Gus’ war with the cartel, and whomever else I’ve forgotten. The only deaths that I don’t think can be traced back to Walt’s decision to become a meth cook are the DEA agents who died when Tortuga blew up, Tortuga himself, and Max who of course died years prior. Pretty much everybody else can be traced back to Walt’s decision to enter the world of methamphetamine production and sales. > [@](#): > > Possibly worth it’s own thread but I’ll just put it here: do you think that Walt has changed from a good person to a bad person, or do you think the remorseless self absorbed person was always his real self? To use Bill’s Clark Kent/Superman analogy from _KILL BILL_, was the mild mannered chemistry professor and family man the person or the disguise? None of the above. I think Walt has always been self-absorbed and petty, but I don’t agree that he’s remorseless to begin with. He’s learning to be ruthless, not remorseless. > [@Sampiro](#): > > And then there’s Mike- will he seek revenge for Gus (they weren’t exactly friends) or just retire? > [@cmyk](#): > > Also, I think Mike will come back, hear about what went down, raise a tired eyebrow, grunt, nod, then get into cahoots with Walt & Jesse. Me too. He was feeling ambivalent about Gus already, I think he’s going to become Walt’s guy. > [@cmyk](#): > > It just dawned on me. This show would cease to be Breaking Bad with out them continuing to cook meth. > > The Car Wash. That’s their new lab. Brilliant! Yes! Because after all, Walt’s broke again, or damn near. Vince has been telling us for a long time that this story is the journey from Mr. Chips to Scarface, so Walt’s going to be busy next year. And since Vince delights in fucking with our expectations, I hereby predict that because we all EXPECT Walt to die in the end, he _ **won’t** _. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-13-face-off-10-9/599130/125 "2011-10-10T20:02:28Z")
Here is the [NY Times interview w/ Gilligan](http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/10/09/vince-gilligan-of-breaking-bad-talks-about-ending-the-season-and-the-series/?smid=tw-nytimes&seid=auto) I referenced above. Here’s what he said about the make-up effects and how they put together that shot: > [@](#): > > Q. > Did the effects crew from “The Walking Dead” help out with the scene where Gus meets his demise? > > A. > Indeed we did have great help from the prosthetic effects folks at “The Walking Dead,” and I want to give a shout-out to Greg Nicotero and Howard Berger, and KNB EFX, those two gentlemen and their company, because their shop did that effect. And then that was augmented by the visual effects work of a guy named Bill Pulaski and his crew, who digitally married a three-dimensional sculpture that KNB EFX created with the reality of the film scene. So you can actually see into and through Gus’s head in that final reveal. It’s a combination of great makeup and great visual effects. And it took months to do. > > Q. > Months? > > A. > Really, months. That one shot where the explosion happens, and then you dolly in on Gus, is actually two shots: the explosion happened in one take, and then the shot revealing Gus – it took me 19 takes to get it right. But we did use Take 19. That was no fault of the actors. That was me being a little persnickety as a director. The big, bravura part of the effect is obviously Gus’s face, what’s left of it, but to me it’s just as amazing how the visual effects guys married the two shots together so that there’s literally no seam between. There’s smoke, but you don’t see the cut in between. It’s just amazing what they’re capable of doing these days. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-13-face-off-10-9/599130/126 "2011-10-10T20:06:56Z")
> [@stoplight](#): > > 1. I was not at all left with the feeling that Walt poisoned the kid..the look on his face when Jesse told him the kid would be okay had me thinking he actually meant to poison the mom which I think he could’ve lived with but not have lived with killing a child…afterall he has a newborn and relates…I believe it was a mistake. I feel Walt _was_ genuinely relieved and not acting. I’m quite certain Walt doesn’t believe he is a bad man in his own mind. Gus I feel had no illusions as to what he was, but Walt still does. _Delusion_ is in a pitched battle with _ego-mania_ for the title of his middle-name ;). In his mind dire circumstances forced him to poison a child, but he would be upset ( less than he probably convinces himself ) if by doing so he actually killed him. He was trying for a sub-lethal dose and was relieved it worked out. > [@zoid](#): > > He planned and carried out the plot against Gus without Jessie’s help. Not at all. Not only, as mentioned, was Jesse’s knowledge of the Hector/Gus feud instrumental in bringing Gus out of hiding and making him vulnerable, but remember Walt’s _initial_ plot required Jesse to lure Gus out via refusing to cook and squatting in the hospital, thus giving Walt an opportunity to plant his bomb on the car. But beyond that I think Walt does still have an attachment to Jesse. For one thing even in strictly logical terms he has no other compatriot he can even partially trust and going it alone without some sort of lieutenant would be hard. Walt doesn’t have the skills or knowledge to develop a new one like Gus could have. But I also think some emotional attachment is still there as well. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-13-face-off-10-9/599130/127 "2011-10-10T20:10:43Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > He just told himself that no one would hurt her. Conveniently. I disagree… When he sent her in, he was fully accepting the risk of her not making it back out. More proof that Walt has further “broken bad.” From Sepinwall’s interview w/ Gilligan: > [@](#): > > \*\*AS: Well, one of the things I found interesting was that even earlier in the episode, before we find out about the Lily of the Valley plant, there’s the scene where Walt goes to the house, and he sends his neighbor in, basically as the canary in the coal mine. So there’s a couple of points in the episode where Walt is risking innocent civilian lives to protect himself. \*\* > > VG: That’s true. And by the way, the little old lady next door is my mom. (laughs) > > **AS: Was that bit there to set up the idea that Walt has already moved past that point, so it’ll perhaps be a little bit less out of character when you then see the Lily of the Valley shot at the end?** > > VG: Yeah, I think so. Walt has been a dark guy for a while, but he’s definitely darker than he’s ever been. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-13-face-off-10-9/599130/128 "2011-10-10T20:19:21Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > …My guess is that Season 5 is going to be about Walt & Hank, one way or another. It has to be, because Hank is actually a smart guy and this is what Hank knows and sees: > > [ul] > [li]He’s investigating Fring & the laundry…with Walt.[/li][li]Walt gets into a really weird and stupid accident rather than take him to the laundry.[/li][li]Suddenly, before Hank can go to the laundry with someone else, a threat comes out of nowhere against Hank, who is no longer on active duty.[/li][li]Walt never shows up to be protected along with everyone else after the warning.[/li][li]Tio Salamanca suddenly wants to talk to Hank, but really has nothing to say. [/li][li]Within hours, Tio, Gus, and the laundry are all blown to bits, erasing all traces of evidence (it is hoped!)[/li][li]And while we’re at it, let’s not forget that on top of all this, Walt has suddenly gone from nearly destitute to being able to buy a car wash for a million bucks.[/li][/ul]… Add to this [ul][li]The mask and lab equipment used to cook meth were stolen form Walt’s lab at the school.[\*]Walt has a connection to Jesse Pinkman.[/ul]As far as I can see the only things keeping Hank from putting it all together are his personal connection to Walt, and the fact that he sees Walt as a weak nerdish geek.[/li]Even so, I do think that Hank may actually have already considered the idea. We discussed this in previous threads. The best example being the scene with Gale’s notes and the initials W. W. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-13-face-off-10-9/599130/129 "2011-10-10T20:42:26Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > Notice it had kind of a muted sound to it. Apparently, ringing the bell was completing a circuit of sorts. In the prior episode, they showed Walt testing the detonator, and it took a few tries. You did see the bomb was strapped underneath his wheelchair? I don’t understand the concern about the bomb being visible. From Gus & Tyrus’ points of view the Tio thing is a threat _legally_, not _life_-threatening. They had no reason to think of bombs, only surveillance, and Tyrus would have no reason to question the configuration of parts on Tio’s wheelchair. > [@Alice\_The\_Goon](#): > > I’m glad they got the cops on Jesse about the ricin. That was something that I just wasn’t willing to suspend disbelief on- that they wouldn’t call the authorities about that. Since I believe ricin is considered a terrorist issue (hence FBI) the problem now is that Jesse has captured the attention of the feds. They don’t believe he brought up ricin for no reason, or they shouldn’t. He’s on some kind of watch list now. > [@nivlac](#): > > One part of the final scene with Gus and Hector was particularly well done. Up until tonight Hector would not give Gus the respect of looking him in the eye. But in tonight’s finale Hector did give Gus the eye and that tipped Gus off that something was wrong, but oh too late. Not just the eye, but the “fuck you, assholeI gotcha now!” eye. > [@SenorBeef](#): > > Still, good episode. It could easily have been a series finale - it makes me wonder if they wrote it before they knew if they’d get a fifth season, so it was written to be a series finale if need be. I agree. > [@UncleRojelio](#): > > No, it’s not. People are stupid all over. Here in Texas the situation is much the same as you would think that folks would be exposed to enough Spanish to know how to pronounce the name ‘Portillo’ but, sadly, that is not the case. The local high school sports color commenter can pronounce most Spanish surnames correctly be screws that one up every time. Some of my favorites: Sepulveda as “sepil-veeeda” la jolla as…well, la jolla! jahla… > [@Sampiro](#): > > If they take Gus’s computer they’ll see a lot more than that. I have to believe that the writers are going to somehow show that Gus has things in place to prevent any post-death exposure for everyone else who has been involved in his life and and business, whether he has real family or not. He was SO anal - the desert hospital? There’s no way his death just leaves behind piles of damning evidence that would take down Mike and the dozens or even hundreds of people working for him. He was ruthless, but not selfish. > [@Bob Ducca](#): > > How appropriate that the Chicken Man would continue moving after his head was blown off… Ever hear of [Miracle Mike,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_the_Headless_Chicken) the chicken who lived for 18 months after his head was cut off? Amazing. > [@Cubsfan](#): > > Gotta have something making you want the show to come back NOW. I disagree. I’m grateful not to be left in a state of intense suspense and yearning for another year. The fact that it isn’t a cliffhanger does not in slightest way reduce my interest in seeing next season. In fact I’m intrigued at what they will do. > [@cmyk](#): > > Y’know, I was surprised they didn’t really leave us hanging like they did after season 3, but in a way I’m glad for once I’m just left with a vague notion that the story isn’t yet quite finished, and not have this nagging question of “WHAT’S GONNA HAPPEN NEXT?!” that I have to wait a year for. > > I understand it helps to bring audiences back, but I feel a sense of complete resolve for the last 2 seasons now, and can just happily wait for the final chapter come 2012. 'zackly. > [@Sampiro](#): > > I like that when Gus falls you see the warped frame of an empty wheelchair behind him. Apparently Hector was blown across the room. Actually I think it’s more accurate to say hector was blown into little bits. > [@Tamerlane](#): > > I feel Walt _was_ genuinely relieved and not acting. I’m quite certain Walt doesn’t believe he is a bad man in his own mind. Gus I feel had no illusions as to what he was, but Walt still does. _Delusion_ is in a pitched battle with _ego-mania_ for the title of his middle-name ;). In his mind dire circumstances forced him to poison a child, but he would be upset ( less than he probably convinces himself ) if by doing so he actually killed him. He was trying for a sub-lethal dose and was relieved it worked out. I agree. Walt had no intention to kill the boy and would have been devastated if he had. He’s nowhere near that far gone. What he will DO vs. what he will FEEL are very different. ---
**Author:** ![quixotic78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/3ab097/32.png) [@quixotic78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/quixotic78)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-13-face-off-10-9/599130/130 "2011-10-10T20:47:28Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > I’m still vaguely dissatisfied at the machinations necessary to get the ricin from Jesse and the berries to Brock, but I can’t think of another way they could do it without tipping us off that Walt was behind it. It’s like the writers wanted that shocking last scene, and the shock was what was important to them – more important than giving us a plan that made sense. Well said. Really, Walt’s good enough at 12-dimensional chess to connect the dots between poisoning some kid and blowing up Gus with a bomb? Very Wile E Coyote to me. And if he’s that awesome at conceiving and executing horribly convoluted plans (and we know he’s not, because his plans usually fail), he couldn’t come up with something _less_ convoluted and far-fetched? I mean, we get it, Walt’s a bad guy. That was pretty obvious when he sent his neighbor (using a cane, of course, because the message wasn’t clear without that little bit of subtlety) to flush out some hired killers from his house. You didn’t need to make us go, “Woah, Walt’s really bad!” with that last shot. (And, on top of that, we all knew Walt did it as soon as Jesse mentioned the plant – even those of us who didn’t realize the importance of Walt’s roulette gun pointing to it in the previous episode. I was saying to myself, as soon as Jesse mentioned the plant, “Man, it’s going to be Walt who did it, and that’s just stupid and lazy and dumb and stupid.”) A lot of sloppy, stupid writing at the end of this season – Ted taking a header, Gus just “knowing” that his car was trapped, Gus the Terminator straightening his tie (yeesh, that’s something out of a bad comedy, not a quality show), Biggie Smalls becoming a master pickpocket, and Walt’s aforementioned dodecatuple bank shot… I’d give up on the show, but I like Hank, and I agree that Hank tracking down Heisenberg will be the focus of the next season. (Plus, we might get to see Mike again, and that can’t be bad). P.S. I would think there’d be some trace of the live video feeds on Gus’s laptop at the chicken shack. Maybe not [www.livemethlabfeeds.com/GusFring](http://www.livemethlabfeeds.com/GusFring), but something. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-13-face-off-10-9/599130/131 "2011-10-10T20:50:57Z")
All the coughing Walt has been doing was apparently a red herring. If his cancer is back then it’s not yet a plot point. I sort of hope that when the show returns they skip ahead in time a little bit, if not in the initial episode then perhaps a ways in. It’s jarring to realize that some of the events that occurred in episodes that aired two years ago are supposed to be a matter of weeks ago plotwise. Last season I hated Jesse because he’s such a stupid emotional substance abusing fuckup, but this season redeemed him. Agree it was sad when he asked “Gus _had_ to go, didn’t he?”, in part because I think he’d come to genuinely like and respect Gus and to some limited degree Gus respected and liked him (just not enough to not have him kidnapped and forced to make meth at gunpoint). ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-13-face-off-10-9/599130/132 "2011-10-10T20:55:55Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > In one of the interviews I’ve read with Vince Gilligan (I think the NY Times interview, not Sepinwall) he said that indeed yes, he did have the makeup fx shop for Walking Dead do Gus’s makeup. He talks about how they did it also. I’ll go dig up the link and post it shortly, it was a good read. And what a “coincidence” that the new season of _The Walking Dead_ just happens to start this coming Sunday! ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-13-face-off-10-9/599130/133 "2011-10-10T20:59:13Z")
I can’t wait for the premiere of _[Hell on Wheels](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1699748/)_. If any other basic cable channel was making it I’d say meh- I love shows set in that time period but I know they’d just screw it up and make it **1865 - 90210** , but with _Mad Men_, _Walking Dead_ and _Breaking Bad_ I expect great things from AMC. ---
**Author:** ![Tarwater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9de0a6/32.png) [@Tarwater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tarwater)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-13-face-off-10-9/599130/134 "2011-10-10T21:08:00Z")
Well, I’d temper your expectations for _Hell on Wheels_. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-13-face-off-10-9/599130/135 "2011-10-10T21:21:20Z")
> [@quixotic78](#): > > Well said. Really, Walt’s good enough at 12-dimensional chess to connect the dots between poisoning some kid and blowing up Gus with a bomb? Killing gus required getting Gus to go outside his protection zones, no matter how it would ultimately be done. Walt couldn’t get Gus outside his protection zones without some help from someone that Gus trusted - he needed Jesse on his side. Once Jesse was on his side, he could get Jesse to force Gus out into the open (by refusing to go back to work) so that Walt could plant the bomb under the car at the hospital. But that failed, so everything that followed was on the fly. I don’t think that Walt necessarily started out thinking ahead to how the child being in the hospital would specifically provide the means of getting Gus out in the open, only that Jesse would somehow help him. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-13-face-off-10-9/599130/136 "2011-10-10T21:29:29Z")
Very minor thing but I liked it nonetheless: Gus screamed “Aaaaaah!” rather than “Noooooo!”, which is far more natural. I’ve never screamed “Noooooo!” but I’ve said “Aaaah!” or other monosyllabic sounds many times when startled. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-13-face-off-10-9/599130/137 "2011-10-10T21:33:07Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Killing gus required getting Gus to go outside his protection zones, no matter how it would ultimately be done. Walt couldn’t get Gus outside his protection zones without some help from someone that Gus trusted - he needed Jesse on his side. > > Once Jesse was on his side, he could get Jesse to force Gus out into the open (by refusing to go back to work) so that Walt could plant the bomb under the car at the hospital. But that failed, so everything that followed was on the fly. > > I don’t think that Walt necessarily started out thinking ahead to how the child being in the hospital would specifically provide the means of getting Gus out in the open, only that Jesse would somehow help him. Right. Walt poisoned Brock in order to turn Jesse against Gus. I’m sure Walt didn’t have that whole convoluted chain of events in his mind when he did it. He was simply trying to get Jesse back on his side. From there, he took advantage of events as they unfolded. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-13-face-off-10-9/599130/138 "2011-10-10T21:52:51Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > I can’t wait for the premiere of _[Hell on Wheels](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1699748/)_. If any other basic cable channel was making it I’d say meh- I love shows set in that time period but I know they’d just screw it up and make it **1865 - 90210** , but with _Mad Men_, _Walking Dead_ and _Breaking Bad_ I expect great things from AMC. I am cautiously optimistic. I also hope there will lots if Indians. We never get enough Indians on TV these days. I thought I saw the go-to Indian actor, Wes Studi, in the trailer, but he doesn’t show up in the wikipedia article about the show and no mention of the show in his wikipedia article. ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-13-face-off-10-9/599130/139 "2011-10-10T22:00:46Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Actually I think it’s more accurate to say hector was blown into little bits. When I watched it again you can see a severed leg in the room. Also don’t forget how much extra force Hector’s oxygen tank added to the explosion. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-13-face-off-10-9/599130/140 "2011-10-10T22:25:36Z")
I haven’t listened to this episode’s Insider yet (I’m waiting for it to be available for download) so maybe they brought it up but I think it’s worth mentioning something again that was brought up earlier in the thread. My first post to this thread was that “I won”\*\* would have been a perfect series finale and someone else mentioned that they wondered if this episode was written/filmed before everyone singed on for the final season or the network picking it up again\*. So if that’s the case many of the question we have could very well be the result of this episode being written to possibly be the series finale. \*Of course if AMC chose not to pick it up, I have to assume _someone_ would have barring Jesse, Walt or Hank asking for asking for some ludicrous amount of money. I think anyone else could be written out. \*\*Come to think of it, if that was the finale, “I won” probably would have gone down in TV history as one of the best lines ever. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-13-face-off-10-9/599130.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-13-face-off-10-9/599130.md?page=8)