# Breaking Bad 4.13 "Face Off" 10/9 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 10, 2011, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-13-face-off-10-9/599130 "2011-10-10T00:22:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-13-face-off-10-9/599130/141 "2011-10-10T22:39:25Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > If you’re going to count Gus, you need to count Hector and Tyrus as well. Tyrus yes, Hector no. Hector’s fate was in his own hands (literally, heh). > [@ZipperJJ](#): > > Anyone think that Bryan Cranston had some great “Hal” moments in this episode? > > Putting the bomb in the diaper bag, then the diaper bag as a magnet, then coming through and exiting through that little window in Saul’s office, then throwing himself over his backyard wall to escape. Sending the neighbor in to the house is something that Malcolm’s family would do, too (from the above-linked interview, we find out that the neighbor lady is Vince Gilligan’s mom). What reputable glass installer is going to charge… OH. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-13-face-off-10-9/599130/142 "2011-10-10T23:00:42Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > My first post to this thread was that “I won”\*\* would have been a perfect series finale and someone else mentioned that they wondered if this episode was written/filmed before everyone singed on for the final season or the network picking it up again\*. So if that’s the case many of the question we have could very well be the result of this episode being written to possibly be the series finale. > > \*\*Come to think of it, if that was the finale, “I won” probably would have gone down in TV history as one of the best lines ever. One of the text interviews with Gilligan confirms that this was written with the possibility of the show ending. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-13-face-off-10-9/599130/143 "2011-10-10T23:10:09Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > And to think the explosion and the deaths of the Cartel and however many others were all brought about by homophobic bullying. If only the “It gets better” ads had been around in the 1980s to inspire Gus. I just hope Gus took the opportunity to cut an ad himself before the end - we know he was a staunch believer in community activism, after all. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-13-face-off-10-9/599130/144 "2011-10-10T23:18:03Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > One of the text interviews with Gilligan confirms that this was written with the possibility of the show ending. And it wasn’t just the finale, but the entire season was clearly written with that in mind. There really aren’t any loose ends. Gus is gone, the cartel is more or less out of the picture (at least for now), the laundry is as destroyed as our minds want it to be, Hector is dead, Jesse and Walt are on good terms etc etc etc. As I’ve said before, the show really could end right now. Any drama going forward is going to be ‘rising from the ashes’ type stuff, Walt vs Hank and brand new things. ---
**Author:** ![interface2x](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c0e974/32.png) [@interface2x](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/interface2x)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-13-face-off-10-9/599130/145 "2011-10-10T23:29:13Z")
> [@stoplight](#): > > 1. I was not at all left with the feeling that Walt poisoned the kid..the look on his face when Jesse told him the kid would be okay had me thinking he actually meant to poison the mom which I think he could’ve lived with but not have lived with killing a child…afterall he h > as a newborn and relates…I believe it was a mistake. Nope … > [@NY Times Interview with Vince Gilligan](#): > > Q: What about the closing shot of the episode, the poisonous plant growing ominously in Walt’s backyard. Is it meant to suggest the possibility that he might have poisoned Brock, or is it meant to say he definitely did it? > > A. > To me it is fairly definitive. But there’s the old Billy Wilder quote, which I am going to misquote, that if you give the audience 2 plus 2 and let them add it up to 4 themselves, they’ll love you forever. I abide by that. The audience is plenty smart, and I like giving them as little as possible, and letting them do the math themselves. It’s such a shocking moment, that you find out the full badness, if you will, of Walter White, and you learn, truly, what he’s capable of: these monstrous acts, up to and including poisoning a child to further his and his family’s survival. To me, a moment like that is best told delicately. It’s best to not hit the audience over the head with it but to let them do the math themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-13-face-off-10-9/599130/146 "2011-10-10T23:39:09Z")
And with that (@interface’s quotes) you have to remember as we said before, most people haven’t discussed this to death like we have. They watched the scene where Jesse and Walt argued about whether or not Walt poisoned Brock. They watched Walt convince Jesse that it was Gus and that was the last time they thought about the possiblity that it may have been Walt until they showed the plant in his back yard. For _them_ it was truly a Holy Shit moment while for us (and many of the other message boards around the internet) it was more of an answer then anything else. That made it much more of a cliffhanger then it was for us even though it still could have been a series finale. ---
**Author:** ![Tarwater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9de0a6/32.png) [@Tarwater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tarwater)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-13-face-off-10-9/599130/147 "2011-10-10T23:43:30Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > Anyone think that Bryan Cranston had some great “Hal” moments in this episode? > > Putting the bomb in the diaper bag, then the diaper bag as a magnet, then coming through and exiting through that little window in Saul’s office, then throwing himself over his backyard wall to escape. Sending the neighbor in to the house is something that Malcolm’s family would do, too (from the above-linked interview, we find out that the neighbor lady is Vince Gilligan’s mom). Walt stepping forward and glowering at Saul’s secretary when he figured out she was trying to blackmail him, then saying, instead of anything remotely intimidating or Heisenberg-ish, “I’ll be right back,” as he stooped awkwardly to get back through the shattered glass door, was my favorite part of the episode. His sputtering at her suggestion that the door would cost tens of thousands of dollars to replace was also great. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-13-face-off-10-9/599130/148 "2011-10-10T23:50:07Z")
And once the door is shattered why not just unlock it to leave? And I still can’t believe a man like Gus would wear a clip on tie. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-13-face-off-10-9/599130/149 "2011-10-10T23:58:03Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > And once the door is shattered why not just unlock it to leave? Because, true to form, Walt does stupid shit when things don’t go his way. And as I’ve said many times before (and it’s been said a few times in this thread) when he gets in to that mode, he really does channel Hal. Again, I urge anyone who hasn’t seen it to watch Malcolm in the Middle during the off season. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-13-face-off-10-9/599130/150 "2011-10-11T00:18:15Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > And I still can’t believe a man like Gus would wear a clip on tie. I was kinda wondering that too. But I think you could consider it a metaphor. He pretends to be a “real” business man. He pretends to be sophisticated. He is rather obsessed with appearances. People who really care about something actually do it “right” and the appearance part just takes care of itself. You can wear a nice real tie and it looks right. Or you can wear a fake one and still “looks right” but technically it ain’t. I think we might see some Gus backstory where Gus had a really sucky life and wanted all these great things in life and “faked it” to some extent rather than actually “getting it”. Plus he had Aspergers (that parts obvious 🙂 ) ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-13-face-off-10-9/599130/151 "2011-10-11T00:18:27Z")
> [@quixotic78](#): > > \ > A lot of sloppy, stupid writing at the end of this season – Ted taking a header, Gus just “knowing” that his car was trapped, Gus the Terminator straightening his tie (yeesh, that’s something out of a bad comedy, not a quality show), Biggie Smalls becoming a master pickpocket, and Walt’s aforementioned dodecatuple bank shot… I’d give up on the show, but I like Hank, and I agree that Hank tracking down Heisenberg will be the focus of the next season. (Plus, we might get to see Mike again, and that can’t be bad).\ I don’t really see any of that as sloppy writing. [ul] [li]Ted’s accident was weird, I’ll grant that. I don’t know if I’d call it sloppy unless the plot line is completely dropped next season. [/li][li]Gus didn’t “know” for sure that his car was trapped, but he is someone who meticulously plans things. And I think he realized that if he was going to kill someone else, that insisting they come somewhere so that someone else could put a bomb on the car would be a good way to do it. Gus has been shown to be careful, so it makes sense to me.[/li][li]In the comments on the AVClub recap, several commenters talk about how people can act weird when in shock. It was over-the-top, but I don’t mind such a big character having a big going out moment. [/li][li]The bodyguard didn’t have to be a master pickpocket. It wasn’t like Jesse was just walking by some random guy in the street who switched out the cigarette packs without Jesse noticing anything going on. The bodyguard was majorly feeling him up, and Jesse was feeling too insulted and angry to notice the switch. [/li][li]Walt’s plan was convoluted, but I think one of the recurring things in the show is contrasting Gus’s methodical planning, and Walt’s desperate improvising. [/ul][/li] There’s [this video](http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2011/10/watch_a_video_very_thoroughly.html)I thought was interesting that someone made after last weeks episode laying their case for Walt poisoning Brock. Obviously we don’t need the video to prove it to us now after seeing this week’s episode, but I thought it was interesting, since it points out Saul calling Jesse so many times, the symptoms of Lily of the Valley, shows the clip of the bodyguard switching the packs, and overall makes Walt’s plan mostly make sense. Also, I think everyone would be interested in reading [Vince Gilligan’s walk through the season](http://www.avclub.com/articles/vince-gilligan-walks-us-through-season-four-of-bre,63013/) at the AV Club. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-13-face-off-10-9/599130/152 "2011-10-11T00:31:33Z")
I don’t get why everyone is so hung up on the Ted story line ending abruptly. It served it’s purpose. We had the drama of IFT which ultimately wound up with the Whites separating. We had the drama of a possible IRS audit and we had the Walter losing the ability to disappear the family when he most needed to. I’d say Ted was a pretty damn good plot device. He kept the story moving forward over 3 seasons (first appeared in S2). On top of everything else, as a plot device he really didn’t seem all that contrived. We bitch about Huell not being able to lift a pack of cigarettes, we complain about Gus waking into gunfire or how one character didn’t see this or that…I think it’s perfectly reasonable that Ted tripped over the carpet and smacked his head on a granite/marble table. Not only that, they set a precedent for the carpet being a tripping hazard so it’s not like it came out of nowhere. Ted served his purpose and they’re done with him now. Also, like we’ve said before, they needed to clean up the loose ends. Now, let’s just hope the last season is just as good and this doesn’t become one of those shows that 10 years later you’re telling your friends “You should watch Breaking Bad, but don’t bother with the last season” Kind of like Twin Peaks. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-13-face-off-10-9/599130/153 "2011-10-11T00:36:07Z")
Am I the only one who that the name “Brock” should be confided to novels written by Jean Auel? ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-13-face-off-10-9/599130/154 "2011-10-11T01:02:56Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Am I the only one who that the name “Brock” should be confided to novels written by Jean Auel? It makes me think of the actor [Brock Peters](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0676349/). Specifically his short scene as a [Star Fleet official](http://trekweb.com/images/stories/430ba3fd254c3-1.jpg) in STAR TREK IV for some reason. ---
**Author:** ![Tangent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tangent/32/3098_2.png) [@Tangent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tangent)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-13-face-off-10-9/599130/155 "2011-10-11T01:34:54Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > And I still can’t believe a man like Gus would wear a clip on tie. Eh, that was part of his “Los Pollos Hermanos” work clothes. When I worked in a fast food place, most of us wore clip on ties because they were easy to take off and put back on as necessity dictated. When Gus made his fateful final visit to see Salamanca, he was wearing a regular tie. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-13-face-off-10-9/599130/156 "2011-10-11T01:55:55Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > It makes me think of the actor [Brock Peters](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0676349/). Specifically his short scene as a [Star Fleet official](http://trekweb.com/images/stories/430ba3fd254c3-1.jpg) in STAR TREK IV for some reason. It makes me think of the word “chifforobe” ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-13-face-off-10-9/599130/157 "2011-10-11T02:03:32Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > It makes me think of the word “chifforobe” From _To Kill a Mockingbird_, also known by it’s original title _The Lyin’, The Bitch and the Wardrobe_. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-13-face-off-10-9/599130/158 "2011-10-11T02:33:57Z")
From Bob Ducca’s link: > [@](#): > > Vince Gilligan talking about the “blown up Gus” affect: > > Indeed we did have great help from the prosthetic effects folks at “The Walking Dead,” and I want to give a shout-out to Greg Nicotero and Howard Berger, and KNB EFX, those two gentlemen and their company, because their shop did that effect. And then that was augmented by the visual effects work of a guy named Bill Pulaski and his crew, who digitally married a three-dimensional sculpture that KNB EFX created with the reality of the film scene. So you can actually see into and through Gus’s head in that final reveal. It’s a combination of great makeup and great visual effects. And it took months to do. > > Q. > Months? > > A. > Really, months. …The big, bravura part of the effect is obviously Gus’s face, what’s left of it, but to me it’s just as amazing how the visual effects guys married the two shots together so that there’s literally no seam between. Actually they might should have added a week more. Giancarlo Esposito’s right eye is very visible in a couple of frames- it’s at the [:50 second mark on this one](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6CjCEyAJ2s). ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-13-face-off-10-9/599130/159 "2011-10-11T02:38:24Z")
It’ll be real hard to side with a protagonist that gets back in the shit by his own volition. He’s free, he’s not wealthy but he’s free and even if the cancer comes back that car wash is a substantial asset. He’ll be risking what he’s gained by trying to start again, and the DEA will know they still didn’t get Heisenburg. Unless the overall story arc is to turn Walt into the antagonist. He didn’t seem to be too bothered to kill those two dudes in the elevator, not to mention the Brock poisoning. He’s selfish, willing to sell out Jesse, use whoever he has too. He was scared for a long time but clearly enjoys the power he feels when he ‘wins’. Hes had no problem feeling completely justified in doing immoral acts until now, we’ll find out next season if he’s willing to make excuses to continue to do them. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-13-face-off-10-9/599130/160 "2011-10-11T02:38:53Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > From Bob Ducca’s link: > Actually they might should have added a week more. Giancarlo Esposito’s right eye is very visible in a couple of frames- it’s at the [:50 second mark on this one](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6CjCEyAJ2s). That’s the first time I’ve seen the scene since yesterday and I just noticed the two nurses who ran up to the room. I didn’t see them the first time. Perhaps I was distracted. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-13-face-off-10-9/599130.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-4-13-face-off-10-9/599130.md?page=9)