# Breaking Bad 5.01 "Live Free or Die" 7/15/12 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 15, 2012, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-01-live-free-or-die-7-15-12/628323 "2012-07-15T18:26:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-01-live-free-or-die-7-15-12/628323/81 "2012-07-16T16:02:32Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > I think there were questions as to why was Ted alive - at least in this episode it kind of showed how far Skylar had fallen. She had those tears when she saw him, but as soon as Ted said he wouldn’t talk, her face re-arranged itself and she just said “Good”. Walt isn’t the only one Breaking Bad by the events he set in motion. My impression of that scene is that Ted is now scared of Skylar, and that Skylar realises it and now has a taste of what Walt has been experiencing. So, yes, Skylar now knows that she isn’t innocent either. More badness breaking. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-01-live-free-or-die-7-15-12/628323/82 "2012-07-16T16:03:44Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > Wait, just thought of something. Maybe, just maybe, he made the bacon 52, knowing the waitress would ask for the ID to confirm his birthday and that would confirm his whereabouts later to create an alibi for something or other later on. > The $100 would make him extra memorable and he likely scoped the place out a head of time to make sure the place didn’t have cameras in the parking lot that would see him swapping cars. That’s a pretty good theory. It certainly will be a plot point of some kind. Someone asked before about the cigarette that the lawyer had, but then I thought he mentioned the plant based poison. Wasn’t the cigarette a different poison? Was the lawyer telling us he was the one who gave the poison to Jesse’s GF’s kid? Did we ever find out what happened to the poisoned cigarette? And why would Mike want to kill Walt now that Gus is dead? ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-01-live-free-or-die-7-15-12/628323/83 "2012-07-16T16:12:55Z")
The cigarette contaned ricin. It wasn’t used to poison Brock, but it had to be taken from Jesse so that Jesse would think it was the ricin from the cigarette that had been used to poison Brock. Because then Walt spun it into the idea that Gus had taken the cigarette and poisoned Brock. But Walt actually used Lilly of the Valley to poison the kid, so that he had a chance to survive, whereas the ricin would’ve killed him. At some point this season Jesse may come to realize that something is up, if the ricin cigarette is gone but ricing wasn’t used in the poisoning. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-01-live-free-or-die-7-15-12/628323/84 "2012-07-16T16:13:16Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Someone asked before about the cigarette that the lawyer had, but then I thought he mentioned the plant based poison. Wasn’t the cigarette a different poison? Was the lawyer telling us he was the one who gave the poison to Jesse’s GF’s kid? Did we ever find out what happened to the poisoned cigarette? And why would Mike want to kill Walt now that Gus is dead? We don’t know how Walt got the Lilly of the Valley into the kid. The cigarette was poisoned with ricin and Jesse had it and was supposed to slip the ricin to Gus somehow. Huell pick-pocketed off of Jesse, and held onto for Walt until last night’s episode when he returned it in the Ziploc baggie. He mentioned how afraid he was that it would break open and poison everybody. Jesse thought he still had the ricin cig, and thought that the kid smoked it by accident and that’s how he ended up in the hospital. Causing Jesse massive guilt and bringing him back into the fold with Walt. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-01-live-free-or-die-7-15-12/628323/85 "2012-07-16T16:15:47Z")
I can’t remember if was mentioned here or on another forum, but if you watch the last episode of season 4 closely, one of the documents that Saul’s secretary shreds is a school schedule for Brock. Saul found a way to get the lilly of the valley into his food. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-01-live-free-or-die-7-15-12/628323/86 "2012-07-16T16:15:50Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > That’s a pretty good theory. It certainly will be a plot point of some kind. > Someone asked before about the cigarette that the lawyer had, but then I thought he mentioned the plant based poison. Wasn’t the cigarette a different poison? Was the lawyer telling us he was the one who gave the poison to Jesse’s GF’s kid? Did we ever find out what happened to the poisoned cigarette? And why would Mike want to kill Walt now that Gus is dead? Yes, but it’s all related. He stole the cigarette from Jesse (it had ricin), but he poisoned Brock with, er, whatever that flower was called that I can’t think of right now. Something in the Nightshade family maybe. Walt orchestrated all of it. He had Saul call Jesse into the office, had Huell frisk him to grab the cigarettes and then poisoned Brock with the flowers. He then convinced Jesse that Gus took the cigarettes and make Brock sick. At the moment, I can’t remember why he didn’t use the ricin to poison Brock. It may have been so that after Walt was done ‘using’ Jesse he could say ‘oh, I guess it wan’t Gus after all…sorry my bad’ and I believe Walt didn’t actually want Brock to die, just get sick enough to manipulate Jesse. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-01-live-free-or-die-7-15-12/628323/87 "2012-07-16T16:22:27Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Someone asked before about the cigarette that the lawyer had, but then I thought he mentioned the plant based poison. Wasn’t the cigarette a different poison? Was the lawyer telling us he was the one who gave the poison to Jesse’s GF’s kid? Did we ever find out what happened to the poisoned cigarette? And why would Mike want to kill Walt now that Gus is dead? Quick recap: Walt cooked up a risin cigarette for Jesse to kill Gus with. Walt then instructed Saul to have his bodyguard lift that cigarette off Jesse when he firsked him, unbenownst to Jesse. This is the cigarette that Saul returned to Walt this episode. Walt cooked up a homemade poison from a plant in his back yard and poisoned the little kid of Jesse’s not-girlfriend. This sent the kid to the hospital, and Jesse right behind. When Jesse started missing work while staying at the hospital, Gus was forced to go to the hospital to get him to come back to work. This was Walt’s plan to flush Gus out into the open so Walt could kill him. Having Saul’s bodyguard lift the cigarette was just a misdirection in case Jesse came after Walt accusing him of poisoning the kid. In such a case – which ended up happening – Walt could say Gus did it, Gus stole your poisoned cigarette and used it on the kid, look in your pack I bet it’s gone now and only Gus could have taken it. By the time the doctors found out the kid wasn’t poisoned with ricin Jesse had already been convinced that Gus was the poisoner, so by then the particulars (which now very strongly pointed to Walt) had already become moot. ---
**Author:** ![edwards\_beard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@edwards\_beard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/edwards_beard)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-01-live-free-or-die-7-15-12/628323/88 "2012-07-16T16:24:52Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Someone asked before about the cigarette that the lawyer had, but then I thought he mentioned the plant based poison. Wasn’t the cigarette a different poison? Was the lawyer telling us he was the one who gave the poison to Jesse’s GF’s kid? Did we ever find out what happened to the poisoned cigarette? And why would Mike want to kill Walt now that Gus is dead? The cigarette was laced with ricin, which (if I remember correctly) Jesse was going to use on Gus. He kept it in his cigarette pack flipped backwards so he had it when he needed it. This was the cigarette Saul held up to Walter. Saul’s goon took it from Jessie when he frisked him. With the cigarette missing, this led Jessie to alert his GF to have the doctor’s look/treat for poison. Brock, (Jessie’s GF Kid) was poisoned by Lily of the Valley. I thought it was odd that Mike went after Walt, and then spent all episode talking about how they all should just disappear. (Too slow for JoeyP and Ellis) ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-01-live-free-or-die-7-15-12/628323/89 "2012-07-16T16:27:19Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > I can’t remember if was mentioned here or on another forum, but if you watch the last episode of season 4 closely, one of the documents that Saul’s secretary shreds is a school schedule for Brock. Saul found a way to get the lilly of the valley into his food. I would never see something like that! How is the average viewer supposed to read a document being shredded? Also, I’m not much of a plant expert, but I was surprised by Lily of the Valley in New Mexico. I was under the impression they liked moist, shady conditions. It doesn’t seem like desert kids would be in much danger of getting poisoned with them, and local hospitals would find it very out-of-the-ordinary if it happened there. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-01-live-free-or-die-7-15-12/628323/90 "2012-07-16T16:34:33Z")
I miss having a DVR. Can someone refresh my memory how Mike and Walt ended up driving toward each other on that deserted road? ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-01-live-free-or-die-7-15-12/628323/91 "2012-07-16T16:41:25Z")
> [@Ellen\_Cherry](#): > > I would never see something like that! How is the average viewer supposed to read a document being shredded? I think it was one of those things (like many others) that they did it so that the people who pick apart every.single.scene. can find it and be like ‘Whoa Villigan is a friggen genius’ and the rest of the world just sort of accept that Walt poisoned the kid and move on. > [@](#): > > Also, I’m not much of a plant expert, but I was surprised by Lily of the Valley in New Mexico. I was under the impression they liked moist, shady conditions. It doesn’t seem like desert kids would be in much danger of getting poisoned with them, and local hospitals would find it very out-of-the-ordinary if it happened there. It was a potted flower, probably just bought from a local garden store. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-01-live-free-or-die-7-15-12/628323/92 "2012-07-16T16:41:52Z")
Thanks every one. Those gaps are filled now. > [@Joey\_P](#): > > At the moment, I can’t remember why he didn’t use the ricin to poison Brock. It may have been so that after Walt was done ‘using’ Jesse he could say ‘oh, I guess it wan’t Gus after all…sorry my bad’ and I believe Walt didn’t actually want Brock to die, just get sick enough to manipulate Jesse. I think he didn’t want to kill Brock, and figured they know how to treat the Lily of the Valley poisoning. > [@edwards\_beard](#): > > I thought it was odd that Mike went after Walt, and then spent all episode talking about how they all should just disappear. Maybe the idea is that Mike thought he was screwed because Gus was killed and the evidence would get him. But since Walt was successful in destroying the evidence I guess Mike isn’t as worried about it anymore. > [@Ellen\_Cherry](#): > > Also, I’m not much of a plant expert, but I was surprised by Lily of the Valley in New Mexico. I was under the impression they liked moist, shady conditions. It doesn’t seem like desert kids would be in much danger of getting poisoned with them, and local hospitals would find it very out-of-the-ordinary if it happened there. I think Walt got it from a potted plant. Maybe it’s common enough as a house plant. But I think it was out in the sun by the pool at Walt’s house, not in the shade. It’s kind of a mild anomaly in this series, but there are so many subtle plot points it’s natural to read too much into everything that happens. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-01-live-free-or-die-7-15-12/628323/93 "2012-07-16T16:43:52Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > I miss having a DVR. Can someone refresh my memory how Mike and Walt ended up driving toward each other on that deserted road? Mike heard Gus was dead and realized his medical care just ran out and Walt just realized ‘epiphany style’ that the laundry had cameras and the only person who knew where the recordings where was Mike. Mike was heading back towards ABQ, Walt was heading for Mike. ETA and seeing how the show does so love their desert shots it probably didn’t take much convincing to get them to drag a crew out into the 150 degree heat. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-01-live-free-or-die-7-15-12/628323/94 "2012-07-16T16:45:05Z")
It was a house plant, but when Jesse was explaining to Walt what it was, he acted like it’s not that unusual for a kid to come into that hospital with it, sometimes they accidentally eat some, which suggests it’s a native plant around the region. Or I guess they could’ve been talking about potted plants. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-01-live-free-or-die-7-15-12/628323/95 "2012-07-16T16:46:00Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > I miss having a DVR. Can someone refresh my memory how Mike and Walt ended up driving toward each other on that deserted road? I think that Mike was headed back to New Mexico after hearing about the death of Gus Fring, while Walt and Jesse were, presumably, trying to get to Mike to get his assistance (and, perhaps, talk him out of killing them). ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-01-live-free-or-die-7-15-12/628323/96 "2012-07-16T16:55:01Z")
> [@Ellen\_Cherry](#): > > I would never see something like that! How is the average viewer supposed to read a document being shredded? It wasn’t meant for the average viewer. It was an Easter egg. ---
**Author:** ![edwards\_beard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@edwards\_beard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/edwards_beard)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-01-live-free-or-die-7-15-12/628323/97 "2012-07-16T17:04:39Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I think that Mike was headed back to New Mexico after hearing about the death of Gus Fring, while Walt and Jesse were, presumably, trying to get to Mike to get his assistance (and, perhaps, talk him out of killing them). Yes, thank you…it just clicked for me. They were going to find Mike because Mike knew where the camera feeds went. ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-01-live-free-or-die-7-15-12/628323/98 "2012-07-16T17:07:15Z")
> [@Erdosain](#): > > And Walt has a full head of (dyed) hair, so it’s presumably a ways in the future. He also coughs and takes a pill, which could imply the cancer is back. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-01-live-free-or-die-7-15-12/628323/99 "2012-07-16T17:08:41Z")
[quote=“Sampiro, post:99, topic:628323”] Well, he got the meal for free.😃 > [@Reverse](#): > > It’s Walt’s 52nd birthday which he’s “celebrating” alone (contrast with pilot); a guy shows up. Nitpick: it’s the 52nd birthday of a Mr. Lambert from New Hampshire (the name and state on Walt’s driver’s license). Apparently he’s more liquid in the hairier future. The gun wasn’t cheap and apparently included a car. The van going on its side was one of the few but great LOL moments of the series. Can somebody remind me who the bodies were in the lab? . ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-01-live-free-or-die-7-15-12/628323/100 "2012-07-16T17:12:22Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > I like it. But then apparently contrary to most I like the character of Nancy on _Weeds_ being revealed as more and more repulsive as time passes. Nancy could never be “repulsive”, just because she’s so fucking _hot_. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-01-live-free-or-die-7-15-12/628323.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-01-live-free-or-die-7-15-12/628323.md?page=6)