# Breaking Bad 5.02 "Madrigal" 7/22/2012 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 23, 2012, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-02-madrigal-7-22-2012/629089 "2012-07-23T00:09:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-02-madrigal-7-22-2012/629089/341 "2012-07-28T13:26:06Z")
If that happens, then this show will change completely. No longer a gritty drama, but just an action-adventure-fantasy. ---
**Author:** ![singular1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ba9def/32.png) [@singular1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/singular1)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-02-madrigal-7-22-2012/629089/342 "2012-07-28T14:45:05Z")
For those with Dish, the only (legal) alternative is iTunes. You can get the whole season, with extras, for about $22. That’s what I did, anyways. I’m hoping I can plug my iPod into the USB port on the DVR to watch it on the TV, but I have to wait for Mr. singular to light so we can try it. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-02-madrigal-7-22-2012/629089/343 "2012-07-28T14:49:29Z")
> [@SykoSkotty](#): > > Here’s a thought : if Hank discovers Walt’s secret…what happens if he decides not to turn him in? Hank can be a dick, but he’s also the Elliot Ness of the show - from what we’ve seen he is incorruptible. It’s hard to think of a believable reason he’d let Walt go. ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-02-madrigal-7-22-2012/629089/344 "2012-07-28T15:57:39Z")
I don’t know that we’ve seen he’s incorruptible. He corrupted himself with his behavior in regards to Pinkman. Also, while he doesn’t know about Walt cooking, Walt’s odd behavior has been explained away with a series of lesser illegal activities and Hank hasn’t shown any indication of having problems with them. Not saying that Hank wouldn’t turn him in but if faced with a “hey, how do you think your wife has been paying your hundreds of thousands in medical bills, wonder what is going to happen to her…” I think he’s going to pause. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-02-madrigal-7-22-2012/629089/345 "2012-07-28T16:08:54Z")
> [@obfusciatrist](#): > > I don’t know that we’ve seen he’s incorruptible. He corrupted himself with his behavior in regards to Pinkman. That wasn’t corruption in the sense of refusing to look into a crime. It was Hank failing to live up to what is required of him (even though his rage was understandable and Jesse was responsible). And we saw that he refused to let his colleagues make excuses for him. > [@](#): > > Also, while he doesn’t know about Walt cooking, Walt’s odd behavior has been explained away with a series of lesser illegal activities and Hank hasn’t shown any indication of having problems with them. True, but he’s a DEA agent, so it’s not his department. But I’d add that gambling - even illegal gambling - is much easier to understand and overlook than meth dealing. > [@](#): > > Not saying that Hank wouldn’t turn him in but if faced with a “hey, how do you think your wife has been paying your hundreds of thousands in medical bills, wonder what is going to happen to her…” I think he’s going to pause. Well, you’re right about this. Marie would be vulnerable in any investigation and it would be difficult for her to avoid prosecution even if she ultimately stayed out of jail. This occurred to me at some point but I didn’t think of it while writing that post. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-02-madrigal-7-22-2012/629089/346 "2012-07-28T16:39:28Z")
Hank himself might fall under investigation. [ul] [li]He’s obviously quite close to Walt’s family. It might seem like he should have realized what was going on.[/li][li]He was the only one not killed or injured by the tortoise bomb. He just happened to step away at the exact right moment.[/li][li]The cartel put a hit out on him for reasons that are still unclear.[/li][li]He was almost pig-headedly insistent that HE remain in charge of the blue meth investigation, even at the cost of a promotion.[/li][li]Hector’s “fuck you” stunt is difficult to explain and could have been due to some personal vendetta.[/li][li]How did he know about Gus’ connection to the meth trade when all he had was evidence that no one else found convincing?[/li][li]How was he paying for therapy that was beyond what his insurance would pay for?[/li][li]What was REALLY in all of those many many packages that were shipped to his home?[/li][/ul]Could the writer’s have been leading up to it almost from the beginning? Of course, the fact that he tried to get them to investigate Gus is in his favor, but they could see it as him trying to eliminate competition for him and Walt. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-02-madrigal-7-22-2012/629089/347 "2012-07-28T16:40:21Z")
Yeah, Hank’s coverup of Marie’s kleptomania puts him in a bad spot if it ever got out to his mustachioed superior. I think that’s going to come up again simply because we haven’t really seen any of it happening for awhile now. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-02-madrigal-7-22-2012/629089/348 "2012-07-28T16:47:39Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Yeah, Hank’s coverup of Marie’s kleptomania puts him in a bad spot if it ever got out to his mustachioed superior. Mustache guy is gone. It was explained to Hank and Steve Gomez that someone needed to take the blame for failing to catch Gus, and he was the one- particularly since he knew Gus personally and didn’t follow up on Hank’s tip. ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-02-madrigal-7-22-2012/629089/349 "2012-07-28T18:44:51Z")
The nihilist in me thinks “Walter White must die” is a feint, and he’ll be the last man standing in the end, but he’ll have lost or killed everything. ---
**Author:** ![jrepka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee59a6/32.png) [@jrepka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jrepka)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-02-madrigal-7-22-2012/629089/350 "2012-07-28T19:20:45Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Hank himself might fall under investigation. > [ul] > [li]He’s obviously quite close to Walt’s family. It might seem like he should have realized what was going on.[/li][li]He was the only one not killed or injured by the tortoise bomb. He just happened to step away at the exact right moment.[/li][li]The cartel put a hit out on him for reasons that are still unclear.[/li][li]He was almost pig-headedly insistent that HE remain in charge of the blue meth investigation, even at the cost of a promotion.[/li][li]Hector’s “fuck you” stunt is difficult to explain and could have been due to some personal vendetta.[/li][li]How did he know about Gus’ connection to the meth trade when all he had was evidence that no one else found convincing?[/li][li]How was he paying for therapy that was beyond what his insurance would pay for?[/li][li]What was REALLY in all of those many many packages that were shipped to his home?[/li][/ul]Could the writer’s have been leading up to it almost from the beginning? > > Of course, the fact that he tried to get them to investigate Gus is in his favor, but they could see it as him trying to eliminate competition for him and Walt. This would be an interesting turn, and I could see the story going in this direction. Of course, it requires that Walt be found out first. My only nitpick: Given the timeline, Hector’s stunt seems clearly to be what it was in reality – an attempt to get the attention of Gus, who had Hank under surveillance: [ol] [li]Hector says he’ll talk, but only to Hank.[/li][li]Hank shows up, Hector doesn’t talk.[/li][li]Hector goes back to home.[/li][li]Gus visits Hector the same day.[/li][li]Ding-Boom![/li][/ol] Inductive reasoning says that Hector, and whoever he was working with (Walt) knew that Gus was watching Hank, and that he would pay Hector a “visit” after he was spotted at the DEA office. The way to make sure he was seen there was to make sure Hank was there. Of course I watched it all happen in that order, but it seems to me that that’s how the DEA would see it as well – Hank, who killed Tuco Salamanca, who was almost blown up by the cartel, who was almost fatally shot by cartel agents, who was threatened again, was apparently being watched by Gus’ people. If anyone were to conclude that Hank is corrupt and working with Heisenberg, it seems that at least some of these events were legitimate attempts on his life, either for revenge or intramural warfare. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-02-madrigal-7-22-2012/629089/351 "2012-07-28T19:31:15Z")
I’m pretty sure that the arc of these last two half seasons is going to be Hank figuring it out and then deciding how to deal with the information. I think the end will be that Hank will have “won” but destroyed everything that matters to him in the process. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-02-madrigal-7-22-2012/629089/352 "2012-07-28T19:35:46Z")
On that note “incorruptible” was the wrong word since we know he’s used his law enforcement connections to get Marie out of trouble more than once. And while it’s a different failing, he was not up to the Mexico assignment and was personally fearful. But he’s been dogged in pursuit of the blue meth case. ---
**Author:** ![Invisible\_Chimp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f05b48/32.png) [@Invisible\_Chimp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Invisible_Chimp)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-02-madrigal-7-22-2012/629089/353 "2012-07-28T19:56:55Z")
AMC [quiz](http://www.amctv.com/shows/breaking-bad/ultimate-fan-game/2890#noprompt) on this episode. ---
**Author:** ![Smid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/838e76/32.png) [@Smid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smid)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2012, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-02-madrigal-7-22-2012/629089/354 "2012-07-29T00:08:52Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I think his name was Max. I think it was made fairly clear that Gus and Max were lovers. It wasn’t clear to me. I always assumed they were brothers, and that’s why the close connection. Pollos Hermandos? Chicken Brothers? ---
**Author:** ![Washoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecae2f/32.png) [@Washoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Washoe)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2012, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-02-madrigal-7-22-2012/629089/355 "2012-07-29T00:55:48Z")
> [@jrepka](#): > > There may be other things as well, and of course Hank has known Walt for many years as kind of a milquetoast-nerd kind of guy, but I’m just waiting for some tumbler to fall into place – when it does, all this stuff is going to come back to him so fast his head will spin… Here’s another thought—don’t forget about the chubby Native American girl who was the manager of the Pollos that Fring used as his home store. Even if everything on camera were wiped out or otherwise inaccessible, she got into a pretty heavy-duty confrontation with Walt, and also interacted with him prior to that confrontation. I have a feeling we may be seeing her in a DEA interview room in the near future. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2012, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-02-madrigal-7-22-2012/629089/356 "2012-07-29T01:42:20Z")
> [@Smid](#): > > It wasn’t clear to me. It was to me, in their body language, their facial expressions/glances, and of course the string of homophobic comments by Hector. Hector’s demeanor wasn’t that of somebody who was just making “you guys are so gay” jokes just to be funny. It seemed pretty clear to me that he was genuinely offended by the presence of an actual gay couple. And there was something else about the conversation, when Maximino told Don Eladio that Gus had paid for his extensive education. I’m not recalling the exact words, but Don Eladio said something to the effect of its being “very generous” or something. Whatever it was, it would not be something you would say about a man who paid for his own brother’s education. Paying for your little brother to go to school if you are able to, especially among people in third-world countries or with a poor background, would be routine, unremarkable. It wouldn’t be considered uncommonly generous or whatever. > [@](#): > > I always assumed they were brothers, and that’s why the close connection. Pollos Hermandos? Chicken Brothers? There’s nothing about those guys that made them seem like brothers to me. “Brothers” in “Chicken Brothers” is either (1) just public relations (remember the TV commercial about “my two uncles”?) or (2) a non-literal use of the term “brother,” which is pretty damn common. Nitpick: Los Pollos _Hermanos_, not “Herman_d_os” ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2012, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-02-madrigal-7-22-2012/629089/357 "2012-07-29T01:47:17Z")
Also, Hector (Tio) said something about white meat and dark meat, and said they didn’t look like brothers to him. If they really were (half) brothers, they would have mentioned it at that point. Instead they said they were partners and that Gus had paid for Max’s education. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2012, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-02-madrigal-7-22-2012/629089/358 "2012-07-29T03:30:33Z")
Did someone say that Walt killed Tuco Salamanca? I think it was actually Hank who killed him. And Jesse wounded him first. ---
**Author:** ![Smid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/838e76/32.png) [@Smid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smid)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2012, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-02-madrigal-7-22-2012/629089/359 "2012-07-29T11:27:10Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > It was to me, in their body language, their facial expressions/glances, and of course the string of homophobic comments by Hector. Hector’s demeanor wasn’t that of somebody who was just making “you guys are so gay” jokes just to be funny. It seemed pretty clear to me that he was genuinely offended by the presence of an actual gay couple. Well, I didn’t draw any conclusions until I watched the second time around, but was looking for reasons why not (indeed, I did not realise that the name was ‘Chicken Brothers’ in spanish when I first watched it, and concluded that they could have been gay). But nothing about what I knew of Hector was any different, and I’d guess if you weren’t a seasoned murderer working for his cartel boss, that you’d be referred to as gay. He did not strike me as a warm and welcoming man, and I knew this well… So a man who routinely half drowns his nephews because he’s bored, is not one I take as a good ‘judge of character’. > [@](#): > > And there was something else about the conversation, when Maximino told Don Eladio that Gus had paid for his extensive education. I’m not recalling the exact words, but Don Eladio said something to the effect of its being “very generous” or something. > > Whatever it was, it would not be something you would say about a man who paid for his own brother’s education. Paying for your little brother to go to school if you are able to, especially among people in third-world countries or with a poor background, would be routine, unremarkable. It wouldn’t be considered uncommonly generous or whatever. Depends how extensive the education is. > [@](#): > > There’s nothing about those guys that made them seem like brothers to me. “Brothers” in “Chicken Brothers” is either (1) just public relations (remember the TV commercial about “my two uncles”?) or (2) a non-literal use of the term “brother,” which is pretty damn common. He appears to have a different name in the wiki: Maximino Arciniega, but indeed there’s no record of Gus before the US, so its not as if that might be his name either. The episode where Max features is titled “Hermanos” (yes, correctly spelled now, I don’t speak spanish and should have double checked my spanish). So, they were referred to as brothers when they both started los pollos hermanos (as a cover for selling the meth) for marketing reasons? Before it was a large chain of restaurants, is it possible that they called themselves that because they WERE brothers? Is is possible that Gus set up a foundation in his dead brothers name to honour him? Rather than a dead lover? I think people want Gus to be gay, the show seemed to skip around his family life (and yes, as has been mentioned he did have family, I can’t find the episode, but I think he uses the word family rather than children). But the show did a great job of showing how organised, careful, quiet and normal Gus was. His family didn’t feature because he kept them out of it. Like his character would have done. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2012, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-02-madrigal-7-22-2012/629089/360 "2012-07-29T12:58:20Z")
> [@Smid](#): > > So a man who routinely half drowns his nephews because he’s bored, is not one I take as a good ‘judge of character’. He doesn’t have to be a good judge of character. He ust has to know that they’re gay. > [@](#): > > Depends how extensive the education is. Not really. > [@](#): > > So, they were referred to as brothers The term “brothers” often has more emotional impact when it is used non-literally. > [@](#): > > when they both started los pollos hermanos (as a cover for selling the meth) for marketing reasons? Before it was a large chain of restaurants, is it possible that they called themselves that because they WERE brothers? Is is possible that Gus set up a foundation in his dead brothers name to honour him? Rather than a dead lover? Are you asking if it’s possible the word “brother” to be used literally? Stunning rhetoric. I don’t think the possibility has escaped anyone. If the portrayals had lined up with literal usage, I don’t think many people would have even considered an alternative meaning. > [@](#): > > I think people want Gus to be gay It never occurred to me that he might be gay until the flashback that seemed to strongly imply that Gus and Max were lovers. > [@](#): > > the show seemed to skip around his family life (and yes, as has been mentioned he did have family, I can’t find the episode, but I think he uses the word family rather than children). In the episode “Abiquiu” (season 3, ep 11), Gus says of his paila marina that “the kids won’t eat it.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-02-madrigal-7-22-2012/629089.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-02-madrigal-7-22-2012/629089.md?page=19)