# Breaking Bad 5.02 "Madrigal" 7/22/2012 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 23, 2012, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-02-madrigal-7-22-2012/629089 "2012-07-23T00:09:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-02-madrigal-7-22-2012/629089/81 "2012-07-23T16:39:35Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > This show is so great at cleaning up loose ends (including why the pizza didn’t fall apart when Walt threw it on the roof… you cut your own pizza!) And they pass the savings on to you! Totally unrelated to this episode, but just wanted to mention in case anyone didn’t know: they discussed that scene in the podcast, and while shooting, Cranston actually threw a real pizza on the roof and nailed it on the first try. There was no CGI or anything in that scene. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-02-madrigal-7-22-2012/629089/82 "2012-07-23T16:43:14Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > I was sort of hoping that when Jesse found the cigarette in the roomba, he’d realize something was up because he’d be 100% sure he’d checked it before. But instead what happened was sort of heart wrenching - beating himself up over drawing what was actually the correct conclusion. That’s just some evil manipulative shit there - not only did Walt poison and nearly kill this kid he cared for, but he ended up making Jesse feel like the bad guy over it and that he should be more loyal to Walt. > > I’m glad they addressed the issue of the cigarette - most TV shows would’ve just let the issue fall away after it served its purpose. This show is spending a lot of time making sure all the loose ends are explicitly tidy. My Gods, yes. On both points, but particularly #2. Too many shows leave these plot threads just hanging (like, what happened to Valeri the Russian on _The Sopranos_ episode “Pine Barrens?”) whereas _Breaking Bad_ at least attempts to address them in a fairly plausible manner. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-02-madrigal-7-22-2012/629089/83 "2012-07-23T16:49:59Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > I was sort of hoping that when Jesse found the cigarette in the roomba, he’d realize something was up because he’d be 100% sure he’d checked it before. He had checked it a week earlier. In the meantime it could have picked up the cigarette while it was doing its rounds. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-02-madrigal-7-22-2012/629089/84 "2012-07-23T16:51:50Z")
Ah, yes, good point. Even more evil geniusy then. I wonder if they had this in mind when they introduced the roomba. Rather than just being something that was first seen this episode, we’ve seen the roomba as a significant show element before. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-02-madrigal-7-22-2012/629089/85 "2012-07-23T16:53:11Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > The only thing I can think of with that is that the writers were trying to show that the people on Gus’ payroll are so loyal to him that even after Gus is dead, they would sooner kill themselves then talk. > > I have to assume that for some reason he couldn’t just lie and/or they were just trying to make a point. > > Also, the way he nicely took off his clothes and hung them up was a pretty obvious homage to Gus throwing up in Mexico after drinking the poisoned tequila. Mueller wasn’t on Gus’s payroll, Gus worked for him. Madrigal provided the equipment for the super lab and presumably laundered money for the _Los Pollos Hermanos_ restaurants that they owned. The point of the taste-test scene was to show Mueller’s detached mental state after learning that the operation has been uncovered. (Remember that the German police had already been interviewing him; his assistant interrupts the taste test to tell him that the police want to question him some more.) He kills himself because he’s done for, not out of loyalty to Gus. (And of course, immediately after observing the workmen removing the _Los Pollos Hermanos_ logo from the building. How poignant! 🙂 ) ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-02-madrigal-7-22-2012/629089/86 "2012-07-23T16:56:59Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > So… can we think of any loose threads that still need handled? Oh hell yes. This show is usually so good about loose ends but they let a huge one hang last season. How does Saul get Brock the poison? And how does he get him to eat it in such away that Brock doesn’t say to his mom, “Hey, right before I got sick, the lawyer gave me a berry to eat. Weird, huh?” They did establish that Saul was personally delivering checks every week (which itself isn’t all that logical; it was probably just to service this plot point). But we never see how we go from Saul being at the house to Brock eating the gobstopper of death. ---
**Author:** ![Bytegeist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9dc877/32.png) [@Bytegeist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bytegeist)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-02-madrigal-7-22-2012/629089/87 "2012-07-23T16:59:16Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > Mueller wasn’t on Gus’s payroll … Nitpick: the guy you’re talking about is named [Schuler](http://breakingbad.wikia.com/wiki/Peter_Schuler). > [@](#): > > He kills himself because he’s done for … It’s also possible he just couldn’t face a world with “Franch” dressing in it. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-02-madrigal-7-22-2012/629089/88 "2012-07-23T17:02:44Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > And they pass the savings on to you! > > Totally unrelated to this episode, but just wanted to mention in case anyone didn’t know: they discussed that scene in the podcast, and while shooting, Cranston actually threw a real pizza on the roof and nailed it on the first try. There was no CGI or anything in that scene. Speaking of CGI (of Digital Effects as they call them). They said that for last week’s episode it took 3 weeks of post for the U-haul tipping over scene. Originally, they were going to tip it over, pull the rig out, then have the cops (real ABQ cops and a real police station BTW) come running out. As it turned out, the rig was MUCH bigger then they anticipated and they didn’t have time to remove it. It took them 3 weeks to digitally remove it. They also went on to say that that episode had 53 digital (CGI) effects in it, double the normal number, “but good luck finding any of them”. Kelley, the editor, mentioned that people on the internet will often argue for days about whether or not something was real or fake. For example, Walt falling from the catwalk last week. I guess the big argument for it being real was that there was no cut. As Kelley went on to explain, of course there was a cut. Of course they didn’t throw Walt off a catwalk. But they pay a lot of money to make that cut disappear. They pay a lot of money to make the rig under the U-Haul not exist anymore. The only one I noticed (not that I look for them), was the fly in Chow’s apartment. I noticed it mainly because they sent the buzzing through the surround speakers. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-02-madrigal-7-22-2012/629089/89 "2012-07-23T17:03:07Z")
I don’t think Lydia’s child will figure into the story except as Lydia’s motivation to cooperate with Mike. Making the child’s parentage a plot point is something _Desperate Housewives_ would do. This show doesn’t play like that. I think Mike didn’t plan to kill Lydia at all, but only wanted to get her back in the game, because of her ability to procure the methylamine. He played her quite well. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-02-madrigal-7-22-2012/629089/90 "2012-07-23T17:03:51Z")
> [@Bytegeist](#): > > It’s also possible he just couldn’t face a world with “Franch” dressing in it. True. I would kill myself as well. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-02-madrigal-7-22-2012/629089/91 "2012-07-23T17:12:29Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > I think Mike didn’t plan to kill Lydia at all, but only wanted to get her back in the game, because of her ability to procure the methylamine. He played her quite well. I didn’t think he came up with that until much later. Like after the nanny left but before he pulled the trigger. Almost like he was looking for a reason not to kill her. Either way, I wonder if he’s going to tell Walt about his source or buy it from her and sell it to them. He’ll still get his third plus he’ll get what ever he makes on the precursor. ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-02-madrigal-7-22-2012/629089/92 "2012-07-23T17:17:30Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > I don’t think Lydia’s child will figure into the story except as Lydia’s motivation to cooperate with Mike. Making the child’s parentage a plot point is something _Desperate Housewives_ would do. This show doesn’t play like that. > > I think Mike didn’t plan to kill Lydia at all, but only wanted to get her back in the game, because of her ability to procure the methylamine. He played her quite well. So, if the child is Gus’ and he has more than Cayman accounts, with her name on them, she could be part of the overall schematic. We learned that 2 mil was in Mikes granddaughter’s name, so this appears to be one way of hiding the money. If it were a desperate housewifes soap opera it ends with the discovery of who is the daddy, but I don’t necessarily see it as a soap opera, but more as another layer to the empire, and a possible source of capital infusion. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-02-madrigal-7-22-2012/629089/93 "2012-07-23T17:24:32Z")
One strange thing about this episode is that when they were discussing acquiring Methlamine, Jesse proposed they go back to using a psuedo cook, and Walt just immediately dismissed it. Now if he feels like it would be impossible to obtain in the necesary quantities, that’s one thing - but it made it seem like he was unwilling to go back to an inferior product. But the methlamine originally was a workaround due to their psuedo limitations - the show never suggested it was a superior product, but rather equal (or good enough). ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-02-madrigal-7-22-2012/629089/94 "2012-07-23T17:35:27Z")
Also, I’m not sure Walt at the end was deliberately creepy, like he was with last week’s “I forgive you” - he may be thinking that Skyler is mostly bothered by the knowledge of what happened to Ted and think he’s actually being a good guy here. ---
**Author:** ![Critical1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Critical1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Critical1)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-02-madrigal-7-22-2012/629089/95 "2012-07-23T17:39:37Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > I think Mike didn’t plan to kill Lydia at all, but only wanted to get her back in the game, because of her ability to procure the methylamine. He played her quite well. she wasn’t even looking at his face when he decided to let her live, that was when he realized she might have the solution to the problem. (the problem of a bunch of people being broke with some really important info on criminal goings on and how to make them all some money again. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-02-madrigal-7-22-2012/629089/96 "2012-07-23T17:39:53Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > One strange thing about this episode is that when they were discussing acquiring Methlamine, Jesse proposed they go back to using a psuedo cook, and Walt just immediately dismissed it. Now if he feels like it would be impossible to obtain in the necesary quantities, that’s one thing - but it made it seem like he was unwilling to go back to an inferior product. But the methlamine originally was a workaround due to their psuedo limitations - the show never suggested it was a superior product, but rather equal (or good enough). I think the only difference between the two final “products” was the color. The impression I got was that they are equal in purity and potency. I think Walt really was concerned about the difficulty of obtaining pseudoephedrine, and not just the difficulty, but the trail it leaves. I can tell you about that. My doctor recently recommended it to me as part of a treatment for some congestion issues. You have to get it from the pharmacist after signing forms and showing ID. They entered my driver’s license info into their computer. I felt like I was promising them my first born just to get 10 pills. It would take an army of “smurfs” to get enough to make anywhere near the wholesale amounts they were making. ---
**Author:** ![Washoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecae2f/32.png) [@Washoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Washoe)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-02-madrigal-7-22-2012/629089/97 "2012-07-23T17:42:17Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I think he does seem to get that. That’s what makes it creepy. Right—in both final scenes (last night’s, and the “I forgive you” dialog) Walt is clearly communicating that he’s no longer her whipped little emasculated bitch. He’s telling her that he’s wearing the pants in the family now, while at the same acting as if it’s always been that way. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-02-madrigal-7-22-2012/629089/98 "2012-07-23T17:44:23Z")
> [@Andiethewestie](#): > > Why so? Let’s say she’s a whatever to Gus…if she’s at the meeting with the head honcho of Madrigal holding forth who says Shuler is an anomoly but doesn’t know for sure, she could be one of those hiding in plain sight. > > Gus does have kids. I remember him saying so to Walt that they didn’t like the Chilean dish he was cooking when he had Walt to his home for dinner in season 3. Gay or Bi or whatever have been known to produce biological heirs. Madrigal has already been identified as the source of a lot of stuff for Gus’s operation and the head of Madrigal has offered his cooperation in rooting out whatever bad seed is going to be left. Obviously, they’re hoping that Schuler was a bad seed and a wild card, but, realistically, Schuler is going to have had some help in executing his plans, just as Gus did. It takes al ot to set up an operation like there was at the laundry. So, the entirety of Madrigal, especially the restaurant division, and any American operations are under scrutiny as it is. Now you’re going to contemplate that if this woman is either Gus’s wife or ex-wife, or just his babymama, the cops and Madrigal aren’t going to have zeroed in on her _already_, especially since she’s obviously in a position to help Gus obtain needed supplies? No way that she’s going to be free to operate like she is if she has such a significant personal relationship with Gus. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-02-madrigal-7-22-2012/629089/99 "2012-07-23T17:57:32Z")
I’ve been going back and forth over whether Mike origninally intended to kill her or let her live when he showed up. I’ll be watching the episode again to try to figure it out. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-02-madrigal-7-22-2012/629089/100 "2012-07-23T18:06:01Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > I’ve been going back and forth over whether Mike origninally intended to kill her or let her live when he showed up. I’ll be watching the episode again to try to figure it out. I’m almost certain he planned to kill her. He told her she would never be found and then he actually went through the “I’m going to shoot you/no I can’t shoot you” business. His facial expressions (her eyes were closed, I think) made it seem like a genuine moment. Do you think that was all a charade to persuade her to go back into business? Also, it seems to me that she must not be one of the names tied to offshore bank accounts. Otherwise, there’s no way she would have been free to start picking off 11 other people without drawing scrutiny. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-02-madrigal-7-22-2012/629089.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-02-madrigal-7-22-2012/629089.md?page=6)