# Breaking Bad 5.13 "To'hajiilee" 9/8/13 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 9, 2013, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-13-tohajiilee-9-8-13/668375 "2013-09-09T01:29:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-13-tohajiilee-9-8-13/668375/221 "2013-09-10T12:55:17Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > If Hank didn’t die in the initial salvo, he ain’t dying, end of story (at least in the shootout); his phone call to Marie is just too over-the-top obvious. It makes absolutely no sense, which quite frankly surprises me, because the writers/producers/editors etc have talked on the podcasts with Vince about how they know that viewers have a built-in ‘bullshit’ meter, so they try to make things as real as possible, from the meth production process to how to shoot up heroin. So why would they have this ridiculous shootout where only one guy gets hit? > > Gomi’s a goner. Sorry bro but you’re toast. I sadly agree with this, it doesn’t make sense to kill Hank in the first few minutes of next episode. Unless the next episode is a weird one out of sync with the time line or something (showing a lot of scenes from the past we previously hadn’t seen, or showing another flash forward) and then near the end going back to the shoot out where Hank/Gomi are killed. I don’t see how Hank can escape in a way that is good storytelling, but at the same time I feel like Gilligan is probably going to get Hank out of the shootout. While he has some personal flaws, Hank is one of the few genuine “good guys” on the show so like I mentioned, I wouldn’t be happy if he died, but given the setup him surviving against a gang of guys with body armor, armored weapons and etc just doesn’t make sense. Hell, how much extra ammo would a DEA agent carry around on them? He should be out relatively quickly the way he was shooting. ---
**Author:** ![Mithras](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f04885/32.png) [@Mithras](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mithras)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-13-tohajiilee-9-8-13/668375/222 "2013-09-10T13:22:14Z")
I disagree and am convinced Hank’s dead. Keeping the investigation entirely off the record opens up a lot of interesting possibilities if Hank is gone. And the scenes showing what Marie will do now that she believes Walt is arrested will be painfully ironic if we know that Walt’s free and Hank’s dead. I don’t even know what her learning the truth is going to look like. To me, Hank dying seems like the obvious outcome not because there’s no way he should survive that kind of shoot out but because it’s the most interesting thing that could happen given the current situation. I guess him being kidnapped by the Nazis works, as well. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-13-tohajiilee-9-8-13/668375/223 "2013-09-10T14:00:10Z")
> [@Pashnish\_Ewing](#): > > Wait, no speculation as to what is going on with the methylamine? My guess is, Uncle Jack and the Nazi Crew figured out how valuable it was, and sold it (or agreed to sell it) to a third party, while figuring Todd could find a way to cook without it. I mean, wasn’t there something odd about the way Todd explained away the lack of blue color to his new sweetie? Totally didn’t pass the smell test\*, AFAIAC. > > \*and I mean that within the context of the show. That the writers totally knew what they were doing here. You think that they sold the methylamine and are using something else to make the meth? I thought his reason sounded plausible. Especially because I think in real life the extremely pure meth wouldn’t be blue anyway- I’m pretty sure I read that somewhere. The methylamine is valuable, but not nearly as valuable as the resulting product could be. I guess it’s possible that they sold the methylamine, but it seems unlikely there’d be that plot point when there’s just three episodes left and these are fairly new characters. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-13-tohajiilee-9-8-13/668375/224 "2013-09-10T14:19:32Z")
> [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > I thought his reason sounded plausible. Especially because I think in real life the extremely pure meth wouldn’t be blue anyway- I’m pretty sure I read that somewhere. [This story or one like it, I’m guessing.](http://www.vulture.com/2013/08/how-breaking-bads-science-advisor-keeps-it-real.html) The show’s chemistry adviser agree that pure-ish meth doesn’t have much color. > [@](#): > > The methylamine is valuable, but not nearly as valuable as the resulting product could be. I guess it’s possible that they sold the methylamine, but it seems unlikely there’d be that plot point when there’s just three episodes left and these are fairly new characters. Right. The point of the scene was that Todd is a better cook than Declan’s guys, but he’s not that good and probably still not up to the standard the buyers want. That’s why the Nazis demand Walt cook for them instead of just paying them for the hit on Jesse. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-13-tohajiilee-9-8-13/668375/225 "2013-09-10T14:28:57Z")
Scenario: Jesse escapes into the desert. The neo-Nazis kill Hank and Gomez and take Walt with them. The tribal police come upon the scene of a big gunfight and the dead bodies of two DEA agents. The DEA begins a massive investigation, blaming the missing Walt for the deaths of the two DEA agents along with everything else (helped by whatever information Marie is able to offer). Walt is the involuntary cook for the Nazis for a while but gets away and eventually returns for revenge on them. One question. Why did the neighbor recognize Walt but not the Denny’s waitress? ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-13-tohajiilee-9-8-13/668375/226 "2013-09-10T14:34:31Z")
If Hank lives then it will be a reverse of the “cavalry to the rescue” western trope and due to the foreshadowed tribal police arriving. Gomie’s a gonie I’m sure (he was already hit wasn’t he?) but I’d give roughly 50-50 odds on Hank’s survival, though if he survives he’ll probably be seriously injured and unconscious which could give Walt some breathing room. Obviously, whatever else happens, Walt doesn’t get taken into custody, but if Hank survives there’s no way he can go home and must buy the Hoover part or otherwise disapparate if he wants to avoid Azkaban. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-13-tohajiilee-9-8-13/668375/227 "2013-09-10T14:40:10Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Jesse doesn’t have that kind of complex planning and carrying out ability. Maybe Walt thought Jesse was finally living up to his potential. ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-13-tohajiilee-9-8-13/668375/228 "2013-09-10T14:48:05Z")
Random thoughts: - I agree with the poster that said having the final confrontation be Walt vs the Nazis would be ‘cheap’. A finale of Walt vs a bunch of nazi rednecks, that only appeared in a handful of episodes, and are barely connected to Walt only via another fringe character (Todd)? No way the show does that - they know viewers have invested emotionally in Walt, Skyler, Walt Jr. Jesse, Hank, Marie and maybe Saul. The final confrontation(s - probably more than one) has to be between some combo of those people. I do see a potential penultimate climax between Todd/Lydia/Nazis vs some combo of Jesse/Walt/Hank etc. I’m barely forgiving the show for wasting time on Todd & Lydia as it is; having the Nazis show up as a sudden ‘arch nemesis’ the last four shows would be too cruel. I trust Vince and the writers are too smart for that tho. - The final ‘confrontation’ (not with the gun) - surely that has to be between Walt - the show’s ultimate ‘evil’ force - and Walt Jr, the show’s only ‘pure’ character? Does Walt get one last chance to disavow Heisenberg and, just before dying, become the old ‘Walt’ and father to his son? - The Tag Heuer watch from Jesse - surely that’s going to play a role at some point, right? Walt’s been wearing it non-stop and I believe he had it on last night. And the writing stressed that ‘Jesse kept the receipt’. - Killing Hank after his ‘I love you’ call to Marie isn’t even a cliche - it’s a cardboard cut-out of television show cliches. And if we know anything about Vince and the writers on this show, it’s that they -hate- obvious TV cliches. So as ridiculous it is to think that Hank has somehow survived that hail of bullets, it’s -less- ridiculous than the notion that Vince and all the writers simultaneously went completely and totally insane. Put another way: If Hank is dead from that gun fight, I will have lost a lot of respect for the show unless they seriously pull something amazing out of the hat. (At the same time: If \*nobody \*dies from that gun fight, I’ll lose even more respect for the show). - Killing Hank here makes \*no difference \*to the story - counter-intuitively, because we already got our Hank ‘money shots’: Hank putting the cuffs on Walt, shoving him into the SUV, and giving him the French Connection / Popeye handwave. Hank got the better of Walt: he out-thought him (with an assist to Jesse) and out-maneuvered him, but Walt gets away due to luck (‘he’s smarter than you, he’s luckier than you, whatever you think is going to happen the opposite is going to happen’). I think it’s a lot more interesting for Hank to \*live, \*knowing that Walt has, once again, eluded his grasp. OMG do I sooo want Walt to give Hank a French Connection handwave back as he runs away. - The Nazis know Jesse can cook? Maybe they take him hostage to cook for them? No idea how it’d work in the context of the end of the last episode tho. - The ricin: Is that for Marie? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-13-tohajiilee-9-8-13/668375/229 "2013-09-10T14:57:32Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Scenario: Jesse escapes into the desert. The neo-Nazis kill Hank and Gomez and take Walt with them. The tribal police come upon the scene of a big gunfight and the dead bodies of two DEA agents. The DEA begins a massive investigation, blaming the missing Walt for the deaths of the two DEA agents along with everything else (helped by whatever information Marie is able to offer). Walt is the involuntary cook for the Nazis for a while but gets away and eventually returns for revenge on them. That’s all plausible, although I am not sure Walt would come all the way back just for revenge. I think he’d need a more pressing reason. > [@](#): > > One question. Why did the neighbor recognize Walt but not the Denny’s waitress? Carol lived next to him for years. Why would the waitress recognize him? She _maybe_ saw him on TV eight or nine months ago and he looked different at the time. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-13-tohajiilee-9-8-13/668375/230 "2013-09-10T15:05:51Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > - The final ‘confrontation’ (not with the gun) - surely that has to be between Walt - the show’s ultimate ‘evil’ force - and Walt Jr, the show’s only ‘pure’ character? Does Walt get one last chance to disavow Heisenberg and, just before dying, become the old ‘Walt’ and father to his son? _That_ would be too much like Return of the Jedi. ---
**Author:** ![Shark\_Sandwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f04885/32.png) [@Shark\_Sandwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shark_Sandwich)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-13-tohajiilee-9-8-13/668375/231 "2013-09-10T15:17:06Z")
If there’s any question as to whether Hank will make it through this, let’s keep in mind that Marie wore black last week. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-13-tohajiilee-9-8-13/668375/232 "2013-09-10T15:23:41Z")
> [@Washoe](#): > > God, I hope _somebody’s_ hitting that. I’d hate to think it’s going to waste. ☹ Well she does have a daughter, so somebody hit it at least that once. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-13-tohajiilee-9-8-13/668375/233 "2013-09-10T15:24:18Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > If Hank lives then it will be a reverse of the “cavalry to the rescue” western trope and due to the foreshadowed tribal police arriving. Gomie’s a gonie I’m sure (he was already hit wasn’t he?) but I’d give roughly 50-50 odds on Hank’s survival, though if he survives he’ll probably be seriously injured and unconscious which could give Walt some breathing room. I’ve noticed a few people mentioning the tribal police as if they’re on their way to the scene. Unless they just happen to hear the gunshots or something, they’re not coming, because nobody called them. When Hank and Gomez traded words after putting Walt and Jesse in the two cars, Hank said that he was _going to_ call the tribal police and let them know they were out there. He never made that call because he chose to call Marie, instead. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-13-tohajiilee-9-8-13/668375/234 "2013-09-10T15:31:59Z")
FWIW,[Alan Sepinwall thinks Hank is dead.](http://www.hitfix.com/whats-alan-watching/review-breaking-bad-tohajiilee-nazis-i-hate-these-guys) > [@](#): > > Now, it’s entirely possible that Hank and Steve, badly outmanned and outgunned, somehow survive this apparent slaughter and escape with their prisoners intact. I would tend to doubt it, though. (Hank beating the Cousins with a little advance warning was stretch enough; this would make him Batman.) This was us getting to watch Hank enjoy his triumph right before it and his life are snatched away, at the hands of some of the more loathsome characters in the history of the series. Not that the Cousins were good guys, but they had a kind of larger-than-life grandeur; Hank’s death at their hands would have felt tragic, but not stomach-churning. (And if Tuco Salamanca had killed him, it would have been at a point where we didn’t care about Hank the way we do now.) Uncle Jack and his crew aren’t outsized like the Cousins, or Gus. They aren’t cool and almost superhumanly competent like Mike. They’re just brutal sleazeballs who take advantage of what’s been put in front of them, and I suspect that by the end of next week’s episode, they’ll be in possession of Walt, possibly Jesse, and definitely Walt’s money, the existence of which either Walt or Jesse will alert them to as a bad negotiating tactic. And I feel sick about this, and want to yell at both Walt and Hank as much as I’ve wanted to yell at any fictional characters since “The Wire” for allowing this to happen: Walt, you do not give the Nazis the GPS coordinates of your money, even if you don’t tell them the money is there! Hank, you get your damaged hip in that car with Walt and you drive the hell out of there to book him! But like on “The Wire,” where I turn certain events over and over in my head, trying to figure out a way that things could have gone differently for characters I cared for, I realize that this is simply how it was meant to be. Walt is under too much pressure, and he frequently makes bad decisions on deadline, just as Hank has too much of his pride, and his marriage, wrapped up in the pursuit of Walt. These were the decisions they were always going to make in these circumstances. You can’t fight fate, and neither can Walter White and Hank Schrader. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-13-tohajiilee-9-8-13/668375/235 "2013-09-10T16:27:51Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > Random thoughts: > > - I agree with the poster that said having the final confrontation be Walt vs the Nazis would be ‘cheap’. A finale of Walt vs a bunch of nazi rednecks, that only appeared in a handful of episodes, and are barely connected to Walt only via another fringe character (Todd)? No way the show does that - they know viewers have invested emotionally in Walt, Skyler, Walt Jr. Jesse, Hank, Marie and maybe Saul. The final confrontation(s - probably more than one) has to be between some combo of those people. I do see a potential penultimate climax between Todd/Lydia/Nazis vs some combo of Jesse/Walt/Hank etc. I’m barely forgiving the show for wasting time on Todd & Lydia as it is; having the Nazis show up as a sudden ‘arch nemesis’ the last four shows would be too cruel. I trust Vince and the writers are too smart for that tho. Yay someone agrees with me! And I hope you are right–I really hope that’s not where they’re going with it because I would find to be very disappointing. ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-13-tohajiilee-9-8-13/668375/236 "2013-09-10T16:33:46Z")
I can’t shake the shot (bad pun) of Todd, shooting all limp-wristed like that…like he’d rather be somewhere else. Or didn’t know what side he should be shooting at. What the hell do we make of it? We know Todd doesn’t have any qualms about shooting any random somebody - he shot that kid Drew for pretty much no reason, and without a moment’s hesitation. But that framing - a close of of Todd, and his weird shooting style…that cut was specific, and thus deliberate. But I can’t for the life of me figure out what it means. Is Todd worried about hitting Mr White? Do the Nazis even notice White yelling? I think they do - the camera is close-up on the Nazis while we hear Walt yelling. So they know Walt’s in the SUV, which they still litter with bullets. I don’t know. It’s driving me crazy because I think it means something specific and has more to do with the outcome of the fight than with the shot of Jesse trying to sneak out of the car. ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-13-tohajiilee-9-8-13/668375/237 "2013-09-10T16:37:39Z")
As for how the DEA would come down on Walt even without Hank, there is Marie as mentioned but it seems reasonable that the tape of Jesse’s confession session is at the house, or if the car easily left behind after the end of the firefight. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-13-tohajiilee-9-8-13/668375/238 "2013-09-10T16:43:26Z")
I think you guys may have to get used to disappointment. Look at it this way: Walt’s previous foes were either limited in power or people who could be reasoned with- who respected some kind of limits. The Nazis have more firepower and they have no principles. They’re not businessmen like Gus, they’re not restrained like Mike. Maybe they’re crazy like Tuco, but Tuco didn’t really have a small military at his disposal. Walt has finally gotten himself involved with someone who won’t listen to his excuses and justifications and who isn’t in it on principle (like Hank). This is what he’s unleashed. And the Nazis didn’t just show up the last four episodes. Todd has been there since the beginning of last season and Walt got involved with these guys in “Gliding Over All,” and Todd may have mentioned them earlier. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-13-tohajiilee-9-8-13/668375/239 "2013-09-10T16:49:58Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > I can’t shake the shot (bad pun) of Todd, shooting all limp-wristed like that…like he’d rather be somewhere else. Or didn’t know what side he should be shooting at. > > What the hell do we make of it? We know Todd doesn’t have any qualms about shooting any random somebody - he shot that kid Drew for pretty much no reason, and without a moment’s hesitation. > > But that framing - a close of of Todd, and his weird shooting style…that cut was specific, and thus deliberate. But I can’t for the life of me figure out what it means. > > Is Todd worried about hitting Mr White? Do the Nazis even notice White yelling? I think they do - the camera is close-up on the Nazis while we hear Walt yelling. So they know Walt’s in the SUV, which they still litter with bullets. > > I don’t know. It’s driving me crazy because I think it means something specific and has more to do with the outcome of the fight than with the shot of Jesse trying to sneak out of the car. [PEW PEW PEW](http://i.imgur.com/vYyomVa.gif) Todd’s not a trained shooter. Up until recently, he’s been a pest control guy that does B&E’s on the side. Or a B&E guy that does pest control on the side. Either way, he’s likely only shot anybody once before and that was Drew Sharp (and he only did that because he thought he was doing a good job for Mr. White). ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-13-tohajiilee-9-8-13/668375/240 "2013-09-10T16:57:50Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > [PEW PEW PEW](http://i.imgur.com/vYyomVa.gif) > > Todd’s not a trained shooter. Up until recently, he’s been a pest control guy that does B&E’s on the side. Or a B&E guy that does pest control on the side. Either way, he’s likely only shot anybody once before and that was Drew Sharp (and he only did that because he thought he was doing a good job for Mr. White). Trained shooter, hell. All he’s got to do is shoot. He shot Drew with zero hesitation. He helped out with the massacre of the Declan lab group. He has zero qualms with shooting a gun, and that’s all he’s being asked to do. I don’t buy the idea that he goes from ‘no qualms about shooting a 12yr old kid’ to ‘oh noes I don’t like all this nasty shooting’. in the span of what, 5-6 episodes? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-13-tohajiilee-9-8-13/668375.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-13-tohajiilee-9-8-13/668375.md?page=13)