# Breaking Bad 5.13 "To'hajiilee" 9/8/13 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 9, 2013, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-13-tohajiilee-9-8-13/668375 "2013-09-09T01:29:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-13-tohajiilee-9-8-13/668375/121 "2013-09-09T14:18:46Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Precisely. The only thing that would have sealed his doom more would have been if he told Marie he was going to retire from the force. And was wearing a red shirt. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-13-tohajiilee-9-8-13/668375/122 "2013-09-09T14:21:38Z")
Maybe the Indians will ride in to save the cavalry in a bizarre Mel Brooks twist, rendering the entire series just one huge prank on the public. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-13-tohajiilee-9-8-13/668375/123 "2013-09-09T14:25:34Z")
> [@Dogzilla](#): > > I think Hank, Gomez and Jesse are dead. I think at least the first two are dead. I somehow see Jesse as a “survivor” who’ll make it through to the end. Even thought I could guess the key plot twists in advance in this episode, I still loved it. Anyone NOT see that Jesse’s phone call was a bluff and that Walt WASN"T going to be able to prevent the hit-squad from coming? I did expect Hank to be killed while he was still on the phone with his wife, though. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-13-tohajiilee-9-8-13/668375/124 "2013-09-09T14:43:09Z")
Hank is not dead. We know from the flashback that Walt’s secret life as a drug lord has been exposed to public view. We know that from his neighbor’s reaction upon seeing him, and from the “Heisenberg” graffiti on the inside of his house. So if Hank and Gomez are dead, how does Walt’s empire get exposed? Anyway, Hank is as important a character to the series as Walt, from this viewer’s perspective. They are yin and yang. No way the show kills him off with this many episodes remaining. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-13-tohajiilee-9-8-13/668375/125 "2013-09-09T14:47:51Z")
Marie exposes Walt in a fit of anger to avenge her husband, would explain that. She doesn’t have enough evidence probably to convict Walt, but just her claims would probably be enough to cause big problems for everyone. I really like the Hank character, especially over the past 2 seasons, but I honestly don’t see a way that Gilligan can get Hank and Gomez out of the shoot out alive without going in a really silly/unbelievable direction. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-13-tohajiilee-9-8-13/668375/126 "2013-09-09T14:55:46Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Marie exposes Walt in a fit of anger to avenge her husband, would explain that. I can’t imagine a more unsatisfying outcome. No way they’ll go that route. Next week will tell, I suppose, but I say Hank survives. Everybody talks about Walt’s amazing luck and Walt’s nine lives in this series. What about Hank? Exact same thing. He is yin to Walt’s yang. The good with a bit of bad to Walt’s bad with a bit of good. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-13-tohajiilee-9-8-13/668375/127 "2013-09-09T14:56:36Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > Hank is not dead. > > We know from the flashback that Walt’s secret life as a drug lord has been exposed to public view. We know that from his neighbor’s reaction upon seeing him, and from the “Heisenberg” graffiti on the inside of his house. > > So if Hank and Gomez are dead, how does Walt’s empire get exposed? Jesse, the nazis, Saul, Lydia, Skyler, Marie, Todd, Huell and Kuby also all know about him. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-13-tohajiilee-9-8-13/668375/128 "2013-09-09T15:08:44Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > So if Hank and Gomez are dead, how does Walt’s empire get exposed? The DEA will investigate what happened at To’hajiilee and find out why Hank and Gomez were there. If you want to keep something secret, a great big shootout involving federal agents is not the way to go. If the DEA starts looking into things, they’ll learn that Hank was working on the Heisenberg case in secret: he has a ton of related files at his house, Huell is in that safehouse, he conducted an interview with Jesse in secret, and Marie can confirm what he was up to. Everybody knows the Nazis killed 10 witnesses for Heisenberg and the government (FBI if not DEA) has to already know who Uncle Jack and Kenny are. The Breaking Bad writers are the kings of giving you what you expect in the way you least expect it, but it’s hard to think of a satisfying way that scene could end without Hank and Gomez dead. It’s sort of incredibly hard to believe. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-13-tohajiilee-9-8-13/668375/129 "2013-09-09T15:12:23Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > Jesse, the nazis, Saul, Lydia, Skyler, Marie, Todd, Huell and Kuby also all know about him. Of those, only Marie has any interest in seeing him outed. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-13-tohajiilee-9-8-13/668375/130 "2013-09-09T15:20:00Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > I can’t imagine a more unsatisfying outcome. No way they’ll go that route. I don’t see why it’s particularly unsatisfying. They’ve been building Marie up as having a serious hate-on and vengeance-lust against Walt for some reason. > [@](#): > > Next week will tell, I suppose, but I say Hank survives. Everybody talks about Walt’s amazing luck and Walt’s nine lives in this series. What about Hank? Exact same thing. > > He is yin to Walt’s yang. The good with a bit of bad to Walt’s bad with a bit of good. The biggest issue I have with this theory, is however Walt later gets exposed I **cannot** see a non-lame way to bring Gomez and Hank out of the shoot out alive. They’re on a rogue mission, no one else in law enforcement knows they are there, it is an extremely remote part of the desert and _deus ex machina_ from the “tribal police” doesn’t make sense. Just randomly having them run into the one spot in that huge desert where this is going on defies credibility. Hank and Gomez outgunning 5-6 guys with assault rifles and body armor when they have a pistol and a shotgun and probably no more than a paltry amount of ammo defies credibility. Gilligan has done things I thought didn’t make sense/were bad storytelling a few times, but to have Hank and Gomez come through the shoot out unscathed would really be pretty lame given the full scenario. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-13-tohajiilee-9-8-13/668375/131 "2013-09-09T15:25:40Z")
Oh, I can definitely see Gomez dying. But Hank has already shown he has nine lives, same as Walt. He survived the exploding head. He survived the assassination attempt. He will survive this. Yin, yang. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-13-tohajiilee-9-8-13/668375/132 "2013-09-09T15:25:59Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > The biggest issue I have with this theory, is however Walt later gets exposed I **cannot** see a non-lame way to bring Gomez and Hank out of the shoot out alive. They’re on a rogue mission, no one else in law enforcement knows they are there, it is an extremely remote part of the desert and _deus ex machina_ from the “tribal police” doesn’t make sense. Just randomly having them run into the one spot in that huge desert where this is going on defies credibility. Hank and Gomez outgunning 5-6 guys with assault rifles and body armor when they have a pistol and a shotgun and probably no more than a paltry amount of ammo defies credibility Gomez said he was going to call the Tribal Police to let them know what was going on. It wouldn’t be a dues ex machina if they showed up. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-13-tohajiilee-9-8-13/668375/133 "2013-09-09T15:28:11Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > The DEA will investigate what happened at To’hajiilee and find out why Hank and Gomez were there. So the writers are going to introduce and develop a whole new set of DEA characters at this stage? Not likely. Hank will do the job. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-13-tohajiilee-9-8-13/668375/134 "2013-09-09T15:29:21Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > Gomez said he was going to call the Tribal Police to let them know what was going on. It wouldn’t be a dues ex machina if they showed up. No, I thought Hank said he’d call the tribal police, from the car as he was driving Walt to jail. In other words, they had not yet called the tribal police. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-13-tohajiilee-9-8-13/668375/135 "2013-09-09T15:31:56Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > No, I thought Hank said he’d call the tribal police, from the car as he was driving Walt to jail. In other words, they had not yet called the tribal police. Either way, there was no point in even mentioning the tribal police unless they were going to play a role. Chekhov’s law enforcement agency. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-13-tohajiilee-9-8-13/668375/136 "2013-09-09T15:33:25Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > Gomez said he was going to call the Tribal Police to let them know what was going on. It wouldn’t be a dues ex machina if they showed up. Did he have a chance to call them, though? Either way this is supposed to be a spot in the middle of nowhere and if the tribal police don’t arrive in the next minute or two it probably won’t make a difference. So yes, it sounds like this would be kind of contrived. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-13-tohajiilee-9-8-13/668375/137 "2013-09-09T15:34:19Z")
They could have mentioned they were **going** to call the tribal police (they absolutely did not, yet–that is why Hank and Gomez were very surprised at the approaching vehicles, wondering if maybe it was the tribal police on patrol) just to establish for the viewers that Team Hank is 100% out there on their own and do not have backup coming and have told no one they are going out there. Thinking it through, the one “out” I can see for Hank that isn’t bad writing would be if he ran into the SUV and pulled Walt out and used him as a hostage. He’s the only bargaining chip the neo Nazis would care at all about. ---
**Author:** ![standingwave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@standingwave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/standingwave)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-13-tohajiilee-9-8-13/668375/138 "2013-09-09T15:34:30Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Precisely. The only thing that would have sealed his doom more would have been if he told Marie he was going to retire from the force. 😃 Financial planner: You haven’t set aside any plans for the future. Chief Wiggum: Well, you know how it is with cops. I’ll be shot three days before retirement. In the business, we call it **retirony**. ---
**Author:** ![Section\_Maker\_Jupe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/section_maker_jupe/32/1424_2.png) [@Section\_Maker\_Jupe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Section_Maker_Jupe)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-13-tohajiilee-9-8-13/668375/139 "2013-09-09T15:41:00Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Hank puts his gun to Walts head and threatens to kill their money machine if they don’t let him leave. That’s the only way out I can think of. I was thinking that the Indians come to the rescue (bulldozer anyone?)…lack of phone call notwithstanding, but you know the Indians are probably just watching the whole deal…🆒…but I like your idea better… yeah, that could work… or Jesse could make a run for it with Walter in the back, just trying to save his own skin. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-13-tohajiilee-9-8-13/668375/140 "2013-09-09T15:44:53Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Of those, only Marie has any interest in seeing him outed. Jesse has an interest in it as well. No-one dying in the opening volley of the shootout doesn’t bother me. There are lots of instances where that has happened. Plus, I expect that Hank and Gomez are wearing vests. Rifles missing at that range is a little harder to believe, but it’s certainly possible. I don’t see how Hank and Gomez can survive that scene without either an Alvin York performance out of one of them, or the cavalry showing up in the form of the tribal police. They’re outnumbered, and I’m pretty sure the Nazis have more ammo, and since the tribal police usually consists of a guy in a pickup, I’m not sure if they’d be much help even if they heard the shooting. Things look dark for our heroes. But then again, I’ve been able to predict bupkis so far. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-13-tohajiilee-9-8-13/668375.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-13-tohajiilee-9-8-13/668375.md?page=8)