# Breaking Bad 5.14 "Ozymandias" 9/15/13 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 15, 2013, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893 "2013-09-15T06:43:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/181 "2013-09-16T07:43:24Z")
> [@Bumbershoot](#): > > Did anyone else think Junior was going to fall on the knife? Goddammit, they manipulate us at will with their camera angles! For just a quarter of a second when Skyler stepped into the corridor with the knife in her hand and stopped Flynn, I thought she was going to stab him. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/182 "2013-09-16T09:11:21Z")
> [@Washoe](#): > > All I can say is that television has been permanently redefined for me. People will still be watching and talking about this show when the child who plays Holly is a very old woman. Totally. If there’s anything bad I can say about this show, it is that it has ruined (almost) everything else on TV for me. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/183 "2013-09-16T10:43:33Z")
> [@Shmendrik](#): > > Hank. I meant Hank, dagnabbit! I blew it because I was still reeling from the ep; I feel like such a Shmendr…oh, wait…😉 ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/184 "2013-09-16T11:00:23Z")
> [@Frazzled](#): > > Vince Gilligan claims that this episode is the best episode of the entire series. Wow–I do think it is the best so far (and thus the best episode of TV I’ve ever seen, period). But I wonder then why he didn’t just leave it at that? It would have worked great as a finale. Should we take the final two as an epilogue? I don’t mean this as an insult, but I honestly feel bad for anyone that didn’t understand what was going on when Walt called Skyler. That scene was so powerful and the acting so fabulous…you were really missing out if you misunderstood it as it was happening. A more murky question IMO is whether Walt would have stabbed Skyler in the heat of anger if Flynn hadn’t intervened. I think he would have, and would have immediately and intensely regretted it. > [@Marley23](#): > > Jim Beaver asks Walt to promise the gun won’t cross state lines (which would make it a federal, rather than state, crime). Walt says it won’t leave town. Huh, that’s an interesting interpretation but not the way I took it. His exact words were “I got your word this won’t wind up crossing the border?” My read on that was \*Mexican \*border: that this is a Tea Party type guy who is all about the Second Amendment (obviously) but hates anything like Fast and Furious, and just generally doesn’t want Mexicans getting heavy arms. It’s ambiguous, though, so I suppose you could be right. But are you sure providing someone a machine gun isn’t a federal crime regardless of whether it crosses state lines? > [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > By and large I wouldn’t characterize Breaking Bad as a show where the creative team telegraphs stuff then pulls something out of left field. By and large when they’ve telegraphed stuff in advance, it’s been for a reason that what they’re telegraphing is going to happen. You didn’t originally think the singed pink teddy bear was from a bomb or meth lab explosion? > [@coremelt](#): > > Why do people keep saying the Nazis are out of it? I agree, and find this a bizarre interpretation. Just because you would retire if you had that much money doesn’t mean they will (and of course it is split up among a bunch of dudes). Assuming they are truly into militant white power stuff and not just money, they will want to amass as much as they can. > [@hajario](#): > > The Nazis have $70 million. They’re going to leave and never come back. What on Jesse’s tape could harm them? It’s not like they aren’t already known criminals. I bet dollars to donuts they did send someone to get that tape (or card, actually), just as Todd said. They may be “known criminals”, but they can apparently drive down the highway and eat at diners without being arrested so they are apparently not currently heavily wanted. They get linked to the murder of a regular, middle class kid and that will change fast. > [@obfusciatrist](#): > > Yeah, I’m not sure I understand where the assumption that rich criminals retire comes from. > > They’ve got $70 million, a contract for meth worth more than that, a unique ability to produce it, and nobody in a position of authority even suspects they’re involved. > > This isn’t some shits and giggles criminal organization. They had the ability and connections to set up 10 simultaneous hits. They took out a rival organization completely and stopped for pancakes afterward. > > And I’m still not sure where the idea that Todd is stupid and inept comes from. He may have started out low level but faster than Walt he’s come to be a central cog in the production of meth. He presumably made the arrangement with Lydia that resulted in them taking out the other people. He’s the one who saw the value of Jesse. He is not encumbered with any remote empathy. Agree strongly with all of this, and let’s not forget: Todd is also very well-mannered. > [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > That was possibly the best episode of anything I have ever seen on TV. The only thing that can compare is the pilot to \* Twin Peaks\*. Ooh, good nomination. There were some _Six Feet Under_ episodes (probably not the finale) that for me would be in that top five as well. I just hope Vince Gilligan et al can keep on making amazing TV of some sort or other after this! > [@SuperNelson](#): > > Did this episode take place around three or four months after Walt’s 51st birthday? if so, there’s about eight months to cover in the remaining two episodes, right? No, Holly is eighteen months old and Skyler was still pregnant when Walt turned 51. She was born when Walt made his first delivery to Gus (out to a rest area), and Jesse was already doing heroin with Jane. So I’m thinking there can’t be much more than two or three months left until Walt’s 52nd birthday. Something I think people forget when they are mentally calculating the timeline is that there was clearly quite a bit of time passing during the “Crystal Blue Persuasion” montage in the finale of 5A. Walt made several deliveries to Lidia, and of course amassed eighty million bucks plus whatever Skyler laundered. Then he retired at Skyler’s urging, and there’s no reason to think it was the very next day that Hank found the Walt Whitman book. From the beginning of that episode to the end is a several-months-long span IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/185 "2013-09-16T11:12:12Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > No, Holly is eighteen months old and Skyler was still pregnant when Walt turned 51. She was born when Walt made his first delivery to Gus (out to a rest area), and Jesse was already doing heroin with Jane. So I’m thinking there can’t be much more than two or three months left until Walt’s 52nd birthday. Huh? You’re mixing the birthdays up here but still getting the final answer right. Holly was born about three months after Walt’s 50th birthday (not 51st). But, yeah, if it’s 18 months later now, his 52nd in the Denny’s is about three months away. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/186 "2013-09-16T11:41:32Z")
Here’s my question. Was the birthday breakfast at Denny’s his real or new-identity birthday? He had to show ID to get it free and it was his fake ID. Did he get his real bday on his fake ID, or was that a fake bday? If so, we can’t be sure exactly when it is. My guess is that he asked for his real bday on his new credentials, but I can’t be certain. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/187 "2013-09-16T11:41:59Z")
My sympathy for Jesse is limited by the fact that the position they are in now is all because Jesse decided _he just had to_ murder the two dealers who killed Andrea’s brother. In an effort to save Jesse from Gus’s wrath, Walt killed them himself, taking the heat from Gus. That’s what started it all. That’s why Walt had to kill Gus and that’s why he had to persuade Jesse to help him. That’s why he poisoned Brock—are we sure that it was a potentially lethal dose anyway? Jesse has made bad decisions all the way down the line. I don’t see him as someone deserving to take vengeance on anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/188 "2013-09-16T11:42:08Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > That was possibly the best episode of anything I have ever seen on TV. The only thing that can compare is the pilot to \* Twin Peaks\*. Diane, I’m entering Twin Peaks, I’ve never seen so many trees in my whole life. As W.C. Fields would say, I’d rather be here the Philadelphia. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/189 "2013-09-16T11:43:29Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Here’s my question. Was the birthday breakfast at Denny’s his real or new-identity birthday? He had to show ID to get it free and it was his fake ID. Did he get his real bday on his fake ID, or was that a fake bday? I would be surprised if he had kept the same birthday, but he also uses his wife’s maiden name and I’m pretty sure that Saul’s disappearance guy would have disapproved of using any name that Walter had had a prior connection with. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/190 "2013-09-16T12:08:37Z")
> [@Martian Bigfoot](#): > > Huh? You’re mixing the birthdays up here but still getting the final answer right. > > Holly was born about three months after Walt’s 50th birthday (not 51st). But, yeah, if it’s 18 months later now, his 52nd in the Denny’s is about three months away. Right, 50th. Sorry for the confusion. > [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Here’s my question. Was the birthday breakfast at Denny’s his real or new-identity birthday? He had to show ID to get it free and it was his fake ID. Did he get his real bday on his fake ID, or was that a fake bday? > > If so, we can’t be sure exactly when it is. > > My guess is that he asked for his real bday on his new credentials, but I can’t be certain. I have raised this point before, but the general consensus among fans is that I was being nitpicky. i think it’s probably true that we are supposed to take it as his real birthday since he was making the bacon into the shape and all; but it’s also true that in real life it would not be smart to make a new identity share your old birthday. Unless it’s like a “last place they would look” kind of a deal I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/191 "2013-09-16T12:09:25Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > Because they just got $70 million for digging up a few barrels. Why bother with the hassle of cooking/distributing meth? > > And because it looked like Todd was all by himself at the end. He may be rich but he’s motivated by something (Lydia) other than money. I don’t know that that means anything, Todd was the only one involved in cooking meth, so it wouldn’t be out of the norm for Uncle Jack and crew to not be there while he was cooking. They were there the first time Todd started cooking again, as Lydia was also there to see the results, but I’d assume in part of their day to day operations the muscle/etc guys would have no desire to hang around doing nothing while they watched Todd cook meth. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/192 "2013-09-16T12:16:09Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > You didn’t originally think the singed pink teddy bear was from a bomb or meth lab explosion? Nope. Neither made sense given what the flash forwards were showing. I knew they wouldn’t cook meth at the white residence and it didn’t look like a bomb had gone off. I had no idea it was a place crash until the flash forwards reached the point where it was showing the NTSB vehicles (at which point plane crash is all that makes sense.) That wouldn’t be an example of telegraphing something in my mind, but instead just general uncertainty about what comes next. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/193 "2013-09-16T12:26:04Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > Yeah but they also rarely do the obvious thing. Also, I’m no gun expert but would Walt even be capable of shooting that gun on his own? It seems like an odd choice for a shootout when I would imagine mobility would be a benefit. Wouldn’t he want something like an AR-15 assault rifle if he’s going into battle? Yes, absolutely. The M60 can be fired by one person, it “only” weighs 25 lbs and can be fired in the standing position. You’d typically want to be firing it utilizing the bipod, though. It’s something in between a true heavy machine gun like the M2, which weighs over 100 lbs and really cannot be effectively used by one infantryman (M2s are typically vehicle mounted these days, but have been used in machine gun nests and such serviced by a crew in past wars) and a M249 which is an even smaller machine gun than the M60 and is more optimized for one member of a squad to carry and use on their own. As a weapon filling the space in between those two concepts, the M60 isn’t really _optimized_ for one infantryman, but can be fairly easily transported and fired by one guy–especially in a situation like Walt might be in where it’s ostensibly just going to be him against a few guys. In an actual warzone where you’d want the M60 effectively used for many hours of time, being moved around constantly and etc you really want 2-3 crew to service it. The ammunition is heavy, and you’d ideally have at least one other infantryman carrying even more ammunition, a spare barrel and sometimes a tripod to use instead of the bipod. A third guy is even better, as you get even more ammo and anything with a rate of fire like the M60 can go through it fairly quickly. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/194 "2013-09-16T12:33:13Z")
> [@obfusciatrist](#): > > And I’m still not sure where the idea that Todd is stupid and inept comes from. He may have started out low level but faster than Walt he’s come to be a central cog in the production of meth. He presumably made the arrangement with Lydia that resulted in them taking out the other people. He’s the one who saw the value of Jesse. He is not encumbered with any remote empathy. Not “any remote empathy”? Let’s not cartoonify him. He is ruthless, but there’s no reason to believe he feels no empathy. He was certainly affected by Walt’s distress over Hank’s death. You don’t have to make a human into something inhuman for him to do monstrous things. Humans are quite capable of horrific acts. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/195 "2013-09-16T12:36:51Z")
Still processing after the fact: Walt told Jesse about Jane. Wow. Just such a pivotal event on so many levels - at that moment in the story; as the closure of a plot point that has been out there since Season 2; as Walt embracing that action - something we saw as pivotal to his “breaking bad”; as the defining moment at the end of Walt and Jesse’s relationship (other than whatever mayhem they go after each other with because of that exchange\*). I also thought that Walt’s willingness to grind Jesse’s face in that news was a good set up for the call Walt made to Skylar, which, I agree, is mostly likely a ploy to get Skylar some deniability. But after his confrontation with Jesse, it came off more effectively. \*Okay, so a small part of me heard Jesse as Bugs Bunny saying “Of course you know, _this_ means war!” ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/196 "2013-09-16T12:42:18Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > I’m no genius but, honestly, I can’t believe anyone missed what Walt was doing. Even the guys on ‘Talking Bad’ seemed unsure about it. I missed it, as did my husband. I just thought he had completely snapped and was fully Heisenberg. His world was collapsed, Skylar had turned on him, no one would listen to him, he had threatened her in the past, so it seemed plausible that it was legit ranting out of shock, fear and frustration. The other interpretation is very satisfying, though it does try to make Walt somewhat redeemable, which is hard to imagine. Kudos to Gilligan’s and Bryan Cranston. What a scene. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/197 "2013-09-16T12:44:45Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Way to be a hero, Flynn. A hearty breakfast will do that. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/198 "2013-09-16T12:47:40Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > I missed it, as did my husband. > I just thought he had completely snapped and was fully Heisenberg. His world was collapsed, Skylar had turned on him, no one would listen to him, he had threatened her in the past, so it seemed plausible that it was legit ranting out of shock, fear and frustration. > > The other interpretation is very satisfying, though it does try to make Walt somewhat redeemable, which is hard to imagine. Kudos to Gilligan’s and Bryan Cranston. What a scene. I missed it also. My thinking was pretty similar to yours, although it did strike me as bizarre. I do now think that the interpretation that he was giving Skyler an out is the correct one. ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/199 "2013-09-16T12:57:06Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Not “any remote empathy”? Let’s not cartoonify him. He is ruthless, but there’s no reason to believe he feels no empathy. He was certainly affected by Walt’s distress over Hank’s death. > > You don’t have to make a human into something inhuman for him to do monstrous things. Humans are quite capable of horrific acts. I didn’t see him being affected by Walt’s distress over Hank’s death. I just saw him observing and saying the polite thing when it was over. He has never been shown to have the slightest hesitation in committing criminal acts, in hurting people. He was never shown to be remotely bothered by having murdered a child, just concerned that it got him in trouble with people who could punish him. I’m not trying to make him inhuman, but he does seem very much to be a psychopath. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/200 "2013-09-16T13:16:25Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > Because they just got $70 million for digging up a few barrels. Why bother with the hassle of cooking/distributing meth? These guys are Nazis - it’s not like they’re prone to taking the easy way out. If they were, they wouldn’t be Nazis. 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893.md?page=11)