# Breaking Bad 5.14 "Ozymandias" 9/15/13 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 15, 2013, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893 "2013-09-15T06:43:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/201 "2013-09-16T13:34:45Z")
Every single performance in that episode was Emmy-worthy, \*including \*the baby. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/202 "2013-09-16T13:59:15Z")
Remember when Walt was a successful negotiator who always stumbled across a backup plan? In that last scene with Hank he kept losing and wouldn’t stop playing. He managed to achieve his final betrayal of Jesse - “Pinkman. You owe me.” was chilling - but other than that, all he managed to do tell the Nazis that Hank was his brother-in-law and give away $70 million. He’d have lost everything and been killed if Jack hadn’t been in a good mood. > [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Here’s my question. Was the birthday breakfast at Denny’s his real or new-identity birthday? He had to show ID to get it free and it was his fake ID. Did he get his real bday on his fake ID, or was that a fake bday? The ID was fake, but I’d assume it’s his real birthday. > [@JohnT](#): > > These guys are Nazis - it’s not like they’re prone to taking the easy way out. If they were, they wouldn’t be Nazis. 😉 If the easy way is violence, they always take that. What Nazis _don’t_ do is pass up a chance to conquer or quit while they’re ahead. ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/203 "2013-09-16T13:59:16Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > These guys are Nazis - it’s not like they’re prone to taking the easy way out. If they were, they wouldn’t be Nazis. 😉 I so want a Blues Brothers “I hate New Mexico Nazis” reference. ---
**Author:** ![SykoSkotty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c0e974/32.png) [@SykoSkotty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SykoSkotty)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/204 "2013-09-16T14:01:04Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > Every single performance in that episode was Emmy-worthy, \*including \*the baby. I couldn’t agree more. I’ve never had one TV show take me on such a rollercoaster of emotions. So intense. So sad. -When Walt pulled out of the driveway with Holly crying, I had tears in my eyes. -When Walt told Jesse about Jane, I was so shocked I could hardly move. I think Walt took Holly knowing that Skyler would call the police. It was all part of his plan to make sure his family was innocent and taken care of. Once he stood up and said, “what’s wrong with you?! We’re a family!!” and saw the look on Skyler and Flynn’s faces…he knew his family was gone. That was the most intense, twisted goodbye in the history of television. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/205 "2013-09-16T14:04:26Z")
> [@obfusciatrist](#): > > I didn’t see him being affected by Walt’s distress over Hank’s death. I just saw him observing and saying the polite thing when it was over. > > He has never been shown to have the slightest hesitation in committing criminal acts, in hurting people. He was never shown to be remotely bothered by having murdered a child, just concerned that it got him in trouble with people who could punish him. I’m not trying to make him inhuman, but he does seem very much to be a psychopath. Nah, watch that scene again, he cries for Mr. White. Now, he turns around a few seconds later, and is figuring out how he can enslave Jesse, so he’s no cupcake. He’s easily as bad as Walt, who really does seem to like having a memento of Gayle, the person who he had Jesse kill; but he’s not any crazier than anyone else in that patch of desert. As far as whether the Aryan Brotherhood are a satisfying villain: I see them as the logical progression into a more ruthless (and to be honest, more realistic) meth kingpins. Unlike Gus’ or Walt’s organization, they’re not hindered by morality or some semblance of decency. I don’t like Jack’s type at all - I’ve known the less successful version IRL. But I still have a grudging respect for the character. He’s very much like Mike, with far fewer redeeming qualities. That’s part of what’s great about this show, even the Nazis aren’t 2-d monsters. ---
**Author:** ![SykoSkotty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c0e974/32.png) [@SykoSkotty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SykoSkotty)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/206 "2013-09-16T14:15:39Z")
Forgot to add this: Did anyone else notice, when Walt’s car broke down in the desert, when he’s staring at the bullet hole near the gas tank, his reflection is lined up just so that the bullet hole is right in the middle of Walt’s forehead? A sign of things to come??? ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/207 "2013-09-16T14:23:12Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > I missed it also. My thinking was pretty similar to yours, although it did strike me as bizarre. I do now think that the interpretation that he was giving Skyler an out is the correct one. He pretty much implicated her, didn’t he? He said something about how she told Jr. “what I do”, implying she knew what he did - and it wasn’t gambling. If you know somebody is committing a crime and don’t call the police, aren’t you an accessory or accomplice or something? If she knew what he did and was running a car wash bought with the proceeds, wouldn’t that be some sort of criminal conspiracy? I agree it was a great scene, but I don’t see how it put Skylar in the clear. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/208 "2013-09-16T14:28:15Z")
She couldn’t plausibly plead ignorance, even before that phone call. If nothing else, once she’s in custody, Beneke may start talking. This way she can at least say that she cooperated out of fear because he had been threatening her. That could increase her chances of gaining at least some immunity in exchange for testifying against him. If nothing else, it may make her look better in Jr’s eyes, which Walt knows is important to both her and Jr. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/209 "2013-09-16T14:29:27Z")
> [@obfusciatrist](#): > > I didn’t see him being affected by Walt’s distress over Hank’s death. I just saw him observing and saying the polite thing when it was over. > > He has never been shown to have the slightest hesitation in committing criminal acts, in hurting people. He was never shown to be remotely bothered by having murdered a child, just concerned that it got him in trouble with people who could punish him. I’m not trying to make him inhuman, but he does seem very much to be a psychopath. Are you a psychiatrist or psychologist? Have you had enough contact with Todd to diagnose him? Do you know for sure he feels no remorse? Have we seen him kill or harm for no reason or take pleasure in killing? ---
**Author:** ![Reverse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@Reverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reverse)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/210 "2013-09-16T14:29:29Z")
> [@SykoSkotty](#): > > Forgot to add this: > > Did anyone else notice, when Walt’s car broke down in the desert, when he’s staring at the bullet hole near the gas tank, his reflection is lined up just so that the bullet hole is right in the middle of Walt’s forehead? > > A sign of things to come??? There’s actually two reflections of Walt in that shot: one with the bullet hole, and one without. Walter White the family man is dead, all that remains is Heisenberg. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/211 "2013-09-16T14:30:25Z")
> [@Duke\_of\_Rat](#): > > If you know somebody is committing a crime and don’t call the police, aren’t you an accessory or accomplice or something? If she knew what he did and was running a car wash bought with the proceeds, wouldn’t that be some sort of criminal conspiracy? IANAL but she might be protected by spousal privilege, at least for not coming forth with what she knows about his crimes. She’s not protected for what she did to further them. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/212 "2013-09-16T14:34:41Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > IANAL but she might be protected by spousal privilege, at least for not coming forth with what she knows about his crimes. She’s not protected for what she did to further them. Spousal privilege or not, it may still be in her best interest to testify if she can get a deal out of it. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/213 "2013-09-16T14:37:58Z")
> [@Tangent](#): > > Hank’s dead. > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > IANAL but she might be protected by spousal privilege, at least for not coming forth with what she knows about his crimes. She’s not protected for what she did to further them. Spousal privilege has to do with what she can say when testifying at a trial. It doesn’t protect her from prosecution when she doesn’t come forward. What Walt did gave her an out. She can now say that she was in fear of her and her children’s lives and that she was mentally abused. Marie will back her on that. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/214 "2013-09-16T14:38:32Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > Nah, watch that scene again, he cries for Mr. White. Now, he turns around a few seconds later, and is figuring out how he can enslave Jesse, so he’s no cupcake. I didn’t notice Todd crying, but I might’ve laughed at “sorry for your loss.” There was something ridiculous about Todd using the blandest words possible to say he was sorry his gang killed Hank while Walt begged them to spare his life. > [@Duke\_of\_Rat](#): > > He pretty much implicated her, didn’t he? He said something about how she told Jr. “what I do”, implying she knew what he did - and it wasn’t gambling. > > If you know somebody is committing a crime and don’t call the police, aren’t you an accessory or accomplice or something? If she knew what he did and was running a car wash bought with the proceeds, wouldn’t that be some sort of criminal conspiracy? Walt painted a very detailed picture in that tirade: he said Skyler was always asking questions that were none of her business and that she objected to his drug manufacturing on moral grounds and he spoke to her like a crazy, domineering, and probably violent husband who was holding her hostage. So he implied that she wasn’t a willing accomplice and she didn’t know anything about his actions. It was crafted to make the police think she was his victim and nothing else. > [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > I missed it, as did my husband. > I just thought he had completely snapped and was fully Heisenberg. His world was collapsed, Skylar had turned on him, no one would listen to him, he had threatened her in the past, so it seemed plausible that it was legit ranting out of shock, fear and frustration. I did, too, until somewhere in the middle of his rant. Based on what happened in the previous scene I was ready to believe he’d finally snapped and become Heisenberg for good. That’s what made it great. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/215 "2013-09-16T14:39:26Z")
I bet they have enough evidence that they wouldn’t feel the need to offer a very good deal. I bet she won’t be able to shake the money laundering charge. I bet they’ll have Ted as a witness for her crimes. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/216 "2013-09-16T14:40:02Z")
During the Talking Bad program, Bill Hader joked that when Walt took Holly, it was the most time he’d spent with her since she was born. And in the beginning of the show, Dean Norris started to say something about this role and his role in Under The Dome but they muted part of what he said. Was anyone able to read his lips or otherwise gather what he said? ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/217 "2013-09-16T14:40:51Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Are you a psychiatrist or psychologist? Have you had enough contact with Todd to diagnose him? Do you know for sure he feels no remorse? Have we seen him kill or harm for no reason or take pleasure in killing? You gotta be f’n kidding me. This isn’t a trial, you don’t need to have an expert consultation to label someone a psychopath. Plus, Todd murders a child and his reaction is, and I think this is an exact quote, “was that wrong? Should I not have done that?” ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/218 "2013-09-16T14:44:18Z")
Frankly, I don’t think Todd has shown any emotion. I get the impression that he’s dead inside, or perhaps lacks empathy. (Which is, I think, a symptom of psychopathy.) ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/219 "2013-09-16T14:47:44Z")
> [@Reverse](#): > > There’s actually two reflections of Walt in that shot: one with the bullet hole, and one without. Walter White the family man is dead, all that remains is Heisenberg. If that were true he wouldn’t have relinquished Holly and made that call letting Skyler off the hook. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/220 "2013-09-16T14:49:10Z")
The trap is using words like “psychopath” to pretend that a person has to be transformed into something else in order to do so. Labeling Todd a “psychopath” gives you the false security that you think you know what’s going on in his head and that it is categorically different from a normal person. You don’t know what he’s thinking or feeling. You just don’t. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893.md?page=12)