# Breaking Bad 5.14 "Ozymandias" 9/15/13 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 15, 2013, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893 "2013-09-15T06:43:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/221 "2013-09-16T14:52:22Z")
I don’t know what’s going on in any character’s head. I just don’t. That doesn’t mean I’m banned from talking about mindset and motivations. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck… ---
**Author:** ![Reverse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@Reverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reverse)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/222 "2013-09-16T14:52:25Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > If that were true he wouldn’t have relinquished Holly and made that call letting Skyler off the hook. The symbolic death of the family man in the beginning of the episode becomes reality by the end? What is this, some kind of witchcraft? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/223 "2013-09-16T14:55:38Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > I don’t know what’s going on in any character’s head. I just don’t. That doesn’t mean I’m banned from talking about mindset and motivations. > > If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck… You know he’s willing to harm people of its to his advantage. You know that he is willing to participate in criminal activity. So stick to what you know. You don’t know that he’s a psychopath. Or else just from that evidence, you could diagnose nearly every combat veteran as a psychopath. ---
**Author:** ![Reverse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@Reverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reverse)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/224 "2013-09-16T14:57:50Z")
Todd’s behaviour and mannerisms make me think he’s autistic, not a psychopath. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/225 "2013-09-16T15:03:24Z")
Walt’s phone call to Skyler was right after the scene where he was changing Holly’s diaper and she was saying “Mama” over and over. His face softened and at that point I knew that he was going to give the baby back. Also, him showing that soft look regarding Skyler preceding the phone call made it more obvious to me that he was saying those awful things for her and the family’s benefit. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/226 "2013-09-16T15:04:13Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > You know he’s willing to harm people of its to his advantage. You know that he is willing to participate in criminal activity. So stick to what you know. You don’t know that he’s a psychopath. Or else just from that evidence, you could diagnose nearly every combat veteran as a psychopath. Every combat veteran has mudrered children and then been confused about why people were upset? ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/227 "2013-09-16T15:04:26Z")
Fpr what it’s worth, I don’t think Walt was grief stricken over Hank’s death because he loved Hank, I think it’s because he was fully aware of what it would mean for him personally, which is exactly what we saw: no coming back from that one. ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/228 "2013-09-16T15:09:14Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > You know he’s willing to harm people of its to his advantage. You know that he is willing to participate in criminal activity. So stick to what you know. You don’t know that he’s a psychopath. Or else just from that evidence, you could diagnose nearly every combat veteran as a psychopath. If Todd’s not a psychopath, I don’t know what is… ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/229 "2013-09-16T15:17:01Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > You know he’s willing to harm people of its to his advantage. You know that he is willing to participate in criminal activity. So stick to what you know. You don’t know that he’s a psychopath. Or else just from that evidence, you could diagnose nearly every combat veteran as a psychopath. Have \*you \*been diagnosed as a psychopath or something? Why are you so weirdly het up about this? I’m curious for those who didn’t get that Walt phone call was a ruse for the police - why did you think he was crying? He could barely get the words out, they were such anathema to him. It is so brilliantly edited that when the phone call starts, the viewer thinks Walt has completely broken and that what he is saying is real, but then in the middle of his tirade, we twinge onto what he is really doing, right when Skyler herself understands. After that moment, when we see how painful it is for him to say what he is saying, I’m sorry but how can anyone have not understood what was really going on? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/230 "2013-09-16T15:17:38Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > You know he’s willing to harm people of its to his advantage. You know that he is willing to participate in criminal activity. So stick to what you know. You don’t know that he’s a psychopath. Or else just from that evidence, you could diagnose nearly every combat veteran as a psychopath. I’ve been saying that for a couple of episodes: at his core Todd seems to be a good criminal soldier who doesn’t think about right and wrong. He just does what he’s told and what the job requires. (In a way that’s what Walt always wanted from Jesse, but he doesn’t have Jesse’s intelligence or imagination or personality.) Calling him a psychopath is kind of pat. I think we can say that Todd appears to be entirely untroubled by hurting and killing people, though. When he shot Drew, he didn’t seem to think he might be killed for it. He was just worried about getting fired from the crew. His comment about Jesse - “we have a history” - was awfully blithe. And we don’t know who stomped the shit out of Jesse during this episode, but Todd was there, at least. But when he pulled Jesse out of that cage, he made no reference to what came before. Just a polite “Let’s cook.” ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/231 "2013-09-16T15:28:41Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Are you a psychiatrist or psychologist? Have you had enough contact with Todd to diagnose him? Do you know for sure he feels no remorse? Have we seen him kill or harm for no reason or take pleasure in killing? I’m sorry but I have to ask: Are you Todd’s mom? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/232 "2013-09-16T15:32:36Z")
I can understand why Vince Gilligan said this was the best episode. That was intense. I watched some kitten videos on Youtube afterwards to help calm me down. It was a great start to the episode, the flashback and then the shootout. It was interesting, because the shootout seemed to be fairly long in the previous episode, which is why people thought it was shoddy that no one died. But in this episode, you could hear the shootout from the distance, and it was very quick. > [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > Oh, and no one has mentioned it yet, but Walt’s confession to Jesse that he watched Jane die and could have saved her! I knew that had to come out at some point! Man, that killed me. And Jesse was so cut by that, he didn’t even respond, he just looked devastated. Jesse is just beaten down more than he’s ever been. I hope he finds a way to escape, or something prompts him to fight back, because I can’t see anyone rescuing him. > [@Chefguy](#): > > That was some cold shit between Walt and Jesse out in the desert. If there was any doubt that Jesse will come after Walt if he gets the chance, that quashed it. Jesse will survive somehow. Perhaps Walt will come after the Nazi boys for killing Hank (hence the M-60), and, thinking Jesse is dead, will not be expecting him to be there. Jesse kills Walt in the end. That seems possible to me. Jesse is able to escape his chains while Walt is killing the Nazis, then Jesse is able to kill Walt. > [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > I can agree, Jesse has humanity while Walt mostly doesn’t. But Hank was also 100% right, Jesse is a murderer, period. He has killed people for his own benefit and for no other reason. He’s also a junkie, he’s peddled drugs to people in drug treatment. Jesse is only a good guy by comparison, but I do think people go way too far when they try to say Jesse is a good guy “in general”, because he really isn’t. If you brushed by a Jesse in real life, he’s likely to be the worst criminal you’d have ever been around in your life–a drug manufacturer, multiple murderer who has intentionally preyed on the weak and vulnerable. Jesse is a pretty terrible criminal, who’s done some terrible things. But he’s mainly that way because of Walt. If he had never met Walt, he’d still be a criminal, but not a terrible one. At the beginning of the series, he was a meth manufacturer, dealer, and druggie, but I don’t think he was violent. Maybe someone who’s rewatched the beginning recently can correct me, but he tried to act tough, but wasn’t actually violent. So if he’d not met Walt, he’d still not be someone I’d want as a next door neighbor, but he wouldn’t be the terrible person he is now. That’s why I have sympathy for Jesse, because he’s a tragic character. A lot of the characters in Breaking Bad would have ended up being criminals in any number of circumstances. If circumstances had been different for Gus, Mike, Tuco, Declan, Todd, and any number of the other characters, they might have not been in the meth business, but they’d still have ended up doing bad things. Like maybe Gus would have ended up doing some Ponzi scheme, or Declan would have ended up doing drug running, or other things. But if circumstances had been just a little different for Jesse, I can imagine him being just an average guy, who works at Home Depot, and who has a girlfriend and a kid he’s crazy about, and who sometimes goes out and drinks too much but other than that is harmless. He probably never would have gone on to be the president or a scientist or accomplish anything great, but he could have been a decent guy, instead of the serious criminal he is now. I don’t know if I’m explaining myself well, and I don’t know if other people have the same reasons for feeling for Jesse, but those are my thoughts. > [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Walt started it all and bears a great deal of responsibility for Hank’s death. But Hank’s pride also put him in the ground. Hank knew his law enforcement career was over, but his pride demanded he at least bring Walt in as his final act. That pride lead him to ignore all norms of procedure, it lead him to get his friend Gomez killed and lead him to put an informant in harm’s way. > > I really like Hank, Hank was stand up when he beat the shit out of Jesse. He didn’t fall back on all the ways police have to weasel out of charges like that, he acknowledged he was wrong and stood up like a man. Hank had a lot of integrity. But in the end he let his pride make him do things that set him up to get killed. If he had turned his investigation over to the DEA at really any point at all, it most likely would have been investigated to the point Walt would have been caught. It just wouldn’t have been Walt being caught by Hank. That’s very true, and makes his death even more tragic. He could have told the DEA about Walt, been forced to resign, and live with the shame and regret that he hadn’t seen who Walt was, but he would have been alive. Marie must be in agony, since she wanted him to tell the DEA and she thought that he would. All the evidence is still at their house, and Marie would be able to tell the DEA a lot of what happened. I’m terrible at guessing what will happen, but I wonder if the DEA finds out about Walt, but can’t get him because he’s disappeared, so they try coming after Skyler, and threatening to arrest her or take the kids away, and that’s what get Walt to come back to town. > [@davidm](#): > > Regarding Hank’s remark that Walt was too stupid to realize that Jack had made up his mind 10 minutes ago. I wonder if that’s true. I wonder if Walt did realize and was simply trying to redeem himself in Hank’s eyes before he died. Not that he wasn’t genuinely grief stricken, but maybe he knew that Hank was as good as dead and was just feeding his enormous ego by playing the self sacrificing hero. I think Walt always thinks he can control the situation. He is very smart, and there have been many times he has been able to talk his way out of things. One of Walt’s faults is his pride, and his pride didn’t let him see that he couldn’t control that situation. > [@drastic\_quench](#): > > I so want a Blues Brothers “I hate New Mexico Nazis” reference. Oh man, someone should start making t-shirts of that, it would sell big. > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > And in the beginning of the show, Dean Norris started to say something about this role and his role in Under The Dome but they muted part of what he said. Was anyone able to read his lips or otherwise gather what he said? I didn’t watch, but maybe he said something about being killed on both shows, two days in a row? I stopped watching Under the Dome, but I know he’s kinda the bad guy on it, so I could see him being killed on that show, and it would be funny for the actor to have two death scenes in two days. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/233 "2013-09-16T15:34:53Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > If Todd’s not a psychopath, I don’t know what is… Yes, perhaps you don’t. Labeling someone a psychopath takes the humanity out of a character, making him or her no longer a dramatic character but merely a machine, a cartoon, a horror show. Horror is not human drama. ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/234 "2013-09-16T15:36:34Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > I’m thinking Walt finds out Jesse is still alive, and that’s who he’s going after in the final showdown. +1 ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/235 "2013-09-16T15:37:03Z")
Two predictions, based solely on what has been laid out over the course of the series and would make for the strongest ending, narrative-wise. : 1. At some point in the last two episodes, Walt will have to do some kind of science magic - the kind he’s used over and over to get out of jams in this series, and something we haven’t seen him do so far in this half of the season. We need one more “YEAH, SCIENCE!” moment. It’s been too important to the show to not come into play in the end somehow. My belief is that the M-60 is part of this, but who knows. 2. Jesse is going to kill Walt. That’s the ending we’ve been building to from the beginning of the series. I’m pretty sure I’ve even posted a prediction about this ending as far back as the first or second season. Last night’s episode took Jesse into a dark enough place where he’ll want Walt dead and nothing will change his mind. Walt was unflinchingly ready to watch Jesse get his brains blown out right in front of him, and took glee in telling him about Jane. That plus Jesse now becoming Todd’s meth-making slave will make it even more “triumphant” when he gets away from Todd and puts a bullet between Walt’s eyes (probably in a very similarly framed scene as to how Jesse killed Gale - except this time he’ll be doing it because he wants to.) ---
**Author:** ![Dogzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@Dogzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogzilla)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/236 "2013-09-16T15:38:30Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Yes, absolutely. The M60 can be fired by one person, it “only” weighs 25 lbs and can be fired in the standing position. You’d typically want to be firing it utilizing the bipod, though. > > It’s something in between a true heavy machine gun like the M2, which weighs over 100 lbs and really cannot be effectively used by one infantryman (M2s are typically vehicle mounted these days, but have been used in machine gun nests and such serviced by a crew in past wars) and a M249 which is an even smaller machine gun than the M60 and is more optimized for one member of a squad to carry and use on their own. > > As a weapon filling the space in between those two concepts, the M60 isn’t really _optimized_ for one infantryman, but can be fairly easily transported and fired by one guy–especially in a situation like Walt might be in where it’s ostensibly just going to be him against a few guys. In an actual warzone where you’d want the M60 effectively used for many hours of time, being moved around constantly and etc you really want 2-3 crew to service it. The ammunition is heavy, and you’d ideally have at least one other infantryman carrying even more ammunition, a spare barrel and sometimes a tripod to use instead of the bipod. A third guy is even better, as you get even more ammo and anything with a rate of fire like the M60 can go through it fairly quickly. Well, then it sounds like, if you want to use the M60, it’s because A) you want to take out a bunch of people in basically one shot and B) you don’t want to get real close to do it. So what’s the range for an M60? How far away does Walt have to be, hiding in the trees or whatever, and still blow the Nazi’s compound to smithereens? ---
**Author:** ![SuperNelson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7feea3/32.png) [@SuperNelson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuperNelson)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/237 "2013-09-16T15:38:48Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > During the Talking Bad program, Bill Hader joked that when Walt took Holly, it was the most time he’d spent with her since she was born. > > And in the beginning of the show, Dean Norris started to say something about this role and his role in Under The Dome but they muted part of what he said. Was anyone able to read his lips or otherwise gather what he said? I hit replay at the time to read his lips. I don’t remember the specifics, but it was not a spoiler - I think he called a character on the other show an a\*\*h\*le, or something like that. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/238 "2013-09-16T15:39:54Z")
My favorite comment on last night’s episode that I saw posted in another discussion somewhere: “At least Hank died doing something he loved… Being surrounded by minerals” ---
**Author:** ![SuperNelson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7feea3/32.png) [@SuperNelson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuperNelson)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/239 "2013-09-16T15:47:06Z")
> [@Dogzilla](#): > > Well, then it sounds like, if you want to use the M60, it’s because A) you want to take out a bunch of people in basically one shot and B) you don’t want to get real close to do it. So what’s the range for an M60? How far away does Walt have to be, hiding in the trees or whatever, and still blow the Nazi’s compound to smithereens? Or C) You really want to get ATF’s attention when you’re setting up your enemy to go down for weapons violations. I’m convinced Walt was trying his best to be memorable in the flash forwards scene. I think that with the exception of his immediate family, he’ll come up with a fiendish plan for everyone, including Todd, Jack, and Jesse to either end up dead or behind bars. ---
**Author:** ![SuperNelson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7feea3/32.png) [@SuperNelson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuperNelson)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/240 "2013-09-16T15:48:06Z")
Where is the lottery ticket at this point? If it’s still in the kitchen, is it now a geocode linking Walt to Hank’s body? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893.md?page=13)