# Breaking Bad 5.14 "Ozymandias" 9/15/13 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 15, 2013, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893 "2013-09-15T06:43:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/241 "2013-09-16T15:50:40Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Still processing after the fact: Walt told Jesse about Jane. Wow. Just such a pivotal event on so many levels - at that moment in the story; as the closure of a plot point that has been out there since Season 2; as Walt embracing that action - something we saw as pivotal to his “breaking bad”; as the defining moment at the end of Walt and Jesse’s relationship (other than whatever mayhem they go after each other with because of that exchange\*). > > I also thought that Walt’s willingness to grind Jesse’s face in that news was a good set up for the call Walt made to Skylar, which, I agree, is mostly likely a ploy to get Skylar some deniability. But after his confrontation with Jesse, it came off more effectively. > \*Okay, so a small part of me heard Jesse as Bugs Bunny saying “Of course you know, _this_ means war!” Don’t you think these two were in some sort of competition from a get go? From the first cook (flashback) and the first disagreement, it was all a downhill and the whole show is about Walt breaking bad so much so that Jesse is in that mortal-fear-yet-respect state of mind. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/242 "2013-09-16T15:52:17Z")
> [@Duke\_of\_Rat](#): > > He pretty much implicated her, didn’t he? He said something about how she told Jr. “what I do”, implying she knew what he did - and it wasn’t gambling. > > If you know somebody is committing a crime and don’t call the police, aren’t you an accessory or accomplice or something? If she knew what he did and was running a car wash bought with the proceeds, wouldn’t that be some sort of criminal conspiracy? > > I agree it was a great scene, but I don’t see how it put Skylar in the clear. I’ll have to listen again to be sure, but all through that call – which went on for awhile – Walt was never specific about what he’d done. Not a word about a dangerous business or meth or millions of dollars of drug money or deaths. Someone who didn’t know could have thought Walt was ranting about Skyler not supporting him in the car wash business. ---
**Author:** ![Dogzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@Dogzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogzilla)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/243 "2013-09-16T15:53:45Z")
I’m down with the theory about Jesse eventually killing Walt. Because I could see no reason for Walt to have told Jesse about Jane, except he knew that would hurt him so badly that Jesse would want to kill him, IF he lived. It’s not like Walt had a moment where he was all, “Well, they’re going to kill Jesse, so I’d better clear my conscience.” Walt knew fully well that Jesse can cook to the same purity Walt can. And Walt knew the Nazis needed a better cook. And he knew he’d have to go on the run, so why not give the Nazis the one other decent cook in the whole show? The first phone call to Skyler – the very first scene – told me that Walt was much more calculated the entire time than I’d given him credit for. It sort of appeared that he stumbled into this meth cooking business, but now I’m starting to wonder. Perhaps telling Jesse, and giving him to the Nazis was also as carefully calculated as the last phone call to Skyler. So let me ask you guys. Which would you rather die of, cancer or a merciful bullet to the head? I think Walt will turn out to have orchestrated far more than (at least) I thought he was capable of. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/244 "2013-09-16T15:54:07Z")
> [@SuperNelson](#): > > Where is the lottery ticket at this point? If it’s still in the kitchen, is it now a geocode linking Walt to Hank’s body? Walt’s wallet, which is how he was able to give the coordinates to Uncle Jack. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/245 "2013-09-16T15:58:31Z")
> [@SuperNelson](#): > > Where is the lottery ticket at this point? If it’s still in the kitchen, is it now a geocode linking Walt to Hank’s body? I think Walt has it. If I remember correctly, he pulled it out of his wallet to read the coordinates off to Jack. But even if so, maybe they could trace where Hank called from, and find his body that way. And Marie could testify what Hank said in his call. That would link Walt to Hank’s death. ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/246 "2013-09-16T15:58:52Z")
> [@SuperNelson](#): > > Where is the lottery ticket at this point? If it’s still in the kitchen, is it now a geocode linking Walt to Hank’s body? Wasn’t Walt reading the coordinates off the ticket when he called the Nazis? ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/247 "2013-09-16T16:01:52Z")
> [@SuperNelson](#): > > Where is the lottery ticket at this point? If it’s still in the kitchen, is it now a geocode linking Walt to Hank’s body? At some point that wasn’t shown Walt took the lottery ticket off the fridge. He had it in his wallet with him when he went out to stop Jesse from burning the money. That was how he gave the exact coordinates to the badder guys. Unless he had more than one ticket printed, which is possible but I don’t believe was shown. Plus it would require a Sherlockian bit of deductive magic for someone to realize a lottery ticket on the fridge was a map. As for me on the question of why Walt has returned in the flashbacks: It comes down to the end of the phone call when he says “I still have stuff to do.” Is that a meaningless lie or indicative of an actual plan. If that “stuff to do” is set in motion whatever brings him back in the flashback then it has to be something he already knows. > [@Acsenray](#): > > Labeling someone a psychopath takes the humanity out of a character, making him or her no longer a dramatic character but merely a machine, a cartoon, a horror show. Horror is not human drama. Oh, so you’re objection isn’t my lack of a medical credential that would certify me to offer diagnoses of fictional characters, you just don’t like it as a matter of aesthetics. God knows psychopaths have never been used as characters in dramatic television before, such would be unthinkable. ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/248 "2013-09-16T16:02:10Z")
I can’t find the comment now (I’m on my phone), but I’d like to second whoever the poster was who pointed out that a lot of this is Jesse’s fault. It bugged me that Mike always blamed Walt for taking down Gus, when really that was all on Jesse. He just had to kill the drug dealers who killed the kid. A kid so fucked up, incidentally, that he killed Jesse’s friend Combo and was barely related to Andrea. All the shit that resulted from that was from Walt saving Jesse’s life, time and again. Sure, he ruined Jesse in the process (by making him kill Gale, something he’s never been able to get over), but it was all a result of Walt trying to protect Jesse. If it weren’t for Jesse’s quixotic need to vengeance, Walt and Jesse could still be cooking under the laundry and hundreds of people would still be alive. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/249 "2013-09-16T16:03:08Z")
> [@Dogzilla](#): > > I’m down with the theory about Jesse eventually killing Walt. Because I could see no reason for Walt to have told Jesse about Jane, except he knew that would hurt him so badly that Jesse would want to kill him, IF he lived. It’s not like Walt had a moment where he was all, “Well, they’re going to kill Jesse, so I’d better clear my conscience.” Walt knew fully well that Jesse can cook to the same purity Walt can. And Walt knew the Nazis needed a better cook. And he knew he’d have to go on the run, so why not give the Nazis the one other decent cook in the whole show? > > The first phone call to Skyler – the very first scene – told me that Walt was much more calculated the entire time than I’d given him credit for. It sort of appeared that he stumbled into this meth cooking business, but now I’m starting to wonder. Perhaps telling Jesse, and giving him to the Nazis was also as carefully calculated as the last phone call to Skyler. > > So let me ask you guys. Which would you rather die of, cancer or a merciful bullet to the head? I think Walt will turn out to have orchestrated far more than (at least) I thought he was capable of. No way. Walt was ready to watch Jesse get put down right in front of him. The only reason it didn’t happen was because of Todd’s stepping in. I don’t think Walt gives any shits at all about whether or not the nazis can still make pure meth. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/250 "2013-09-16T16:04:37Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > Two predictions, based solely on what has been laid out over the course of the series and would make for the strongest ending, narrative-wise. : > > 1. At some point in the last two episodes, Walt will have to do some kind of science magic - the kind he’s used over and over to get out of jams in this series, and something we haven’t seen him do so far in this half of the season. We need one more “YEAH, SCIENCE!” moment. It’s been too important to the show to not come into play in the end somehow. My belief is that the M-60 is part of this, but who knows. > > 2. Jesse is going to kill Walt. That’s the ending we’ve been building to from the beginning of the series. I’m pretty sure I’ve even posted a prediction about this ending as far back as the first or second season. Last night’s episode took Jesse into a dark enough place where he’ll want Walt dead and nothing will change his mind. Walt was unflinchingly ready to watch Jesse get his brains blown out right in front of him, and took glee in telling him about Jane. That plus Jesse now becoming Todd’s meth-making slave will make it even more “triumphant” when he gets away from Todd and puts a bullet between Walt’s eyes (probably in a very similarly framed scene as to how Jesse killed Gale - except this time he’ll be doing it because he wants to.) This makes a lot of sense. I was thinking a couple of episodes ago that we haven’t seen any of Walt’s tricks lately. And it may not make sense for Walt to save Jesse, I do think they have to meet up again somehow. > [@Dogzilla](#): > > I’m down with the theory about Jesse eventually killing Walt. Because I could see no reason for Walt to have told Jesse about Jane, except he knew that would hurt him so badly that Jesse would want to kill him, IF he lived. It was revenge. Jesse betrayed Walt by teaming up with Hank, so Walt wanted to hurt Jesse the worst way he could. He was ready for them to kill Jesse right then and there. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/251 "2013-09-16T16:07:30Z")
We just finished watching the show. I’ve not read through the entire thread, but my prediction: The Nazis have taken the money and left, Todd wants Jesse to cook as a way of getting into Lydia’s pants, Jesse will manage to kill Todd and escape, he will then kill Walt’s family. So Jesse is the one Walt goes gunning for at the end. Remember: _Someone_ is going to scrawl “Heisenberg” on the wall of his house, which is clearly abandoned in the flash forward to the future. Something really, really bad is going to happen there. ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/252 "2013-09-16T16:08:29Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Yes, perhaps you don’t. > > Labeling someone a psychopath takes the humanity out of a character, making him or her no longer a dramatic character but merely a machine, a cartoon, a horror show. Horror is not human drama. It’s odd how hung up you are on this point. From what we have seen Todd is the text book definition of a psychopath. ---
**Author:** ![Cognoscant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Cognoscant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cognoscant)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/253 "2013-09-16T16:10:52Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Was Jesse’s eye swollen shut or missing? It looked like it was missing in a couple of angles, but could have been lighting. Why, he almost looked like a certain pink teddy bear fished out of the White Family swimming pool, didn’t he? I hadn’t even thought of that until this morning. What a reference. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/254 "2013-09-16T16:11:13Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > It’s odd how hung up you are on this point. From what we have seen Todd is the text book definition of a psychopath. Not odd at all, if you’ve read his posts in other threads. He gets quite exercised about things. ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/255 "2013-09-16T16:11:59Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Not odd at all, if you’ve read his posts in other threads. He gets quite exercised about things. Oh, I guess I didn’t notice before. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/256 "2013-09-16T16:13:13Z")
> [@obfusciatrist](#): > > Oh, so you’re objection isn’t my lack of a medical credential that would certify me to offer diagnoses of fictional characters, you just don’t like it as a matter of aesthetics. Wrong again. It’s both. You simply do not know enough about him to call him a psychopath. > [@](#): > > God knows psychopaths have never been used as characters in dramatic television before, such would be unthinkable. They’ve been used as horror or thriller props or as mechanical macguffin threats. A psychopath always stands outside human drama. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/257 "2013-09-16T16:17:04Z")
I think Jesse’s eye was just swollen shut. If they’d gone further and blinded him he might’ve been in too much pain to work. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/258 "2013-09-16T16:17:36Z")
It looked swollen shut to me. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/259 "2013-09-16T16:19:21Z")
I find it interesting that the fact they are Nazis is actually irrelevant. The only reason we know they are neo-Nazis is because of their tattoos. I’ve yet to hear them do or say anything white-supremacisty. ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/260 "2013-09-16T16:19:44Z")
Not only did Jesse betray Walt by ratting him out to Hank, that lead directly to Hank being in the middle of things and getting killed. Since nothing is ever really Walt’s fault since it would all just work out if everybody did what he said, Hank being dead is Jesse’s fault. If whatever brings Walt back is information that we already have then I don’t see it being a plan to kill Jesse (he thinks Jesse is dead or as good as) nor to fend of an attack by Jesse. Jesse already viewed Walt as a supervillain who can’t be caught and from his point of view it happened again. They had him dead to rights and once again everybody else ended up dead and Walt walked away. If he escapes Todd, I don’t see him wanting to poke the bear. One thing I expected, to make the destruction of Flynn/Jr. complete was for Walt (because why should anybody come out the other end of this remotely whole), during his fight with Skyler to say something like “just two days ago you were telling me to kill people.” And among everything else this episode does reinforce what someone said about the show giving us what we expect in ways we don’t expect. In all of the discussion last week about how the DEA would know to come down on Walt as Heisenberg, I don’t think anybody had “Walt will knowingly confess to the police and essentially give Skyler permission to admit to everything she knows.” And I loved the fight. I literally had this sequence over 20 seconds: Oh no! Skyler’s going to kill herself Oh no! Skyler’s going to severely wound Walt. Oh no! Walt’s going to accidentally kill Skyler. Oh no! The knife is going to go flying and stab Holly. Oh no! Flynn Jr. is going to fall on the knife. Oh no! I haven’t a fucking clue what is going to happen. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893.md?page=14)