# Breaking Bad 5.14 "Ozymandias" 9/15/13 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 15, 2013, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893 "2013-09-15T06:43:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 28
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/541 "2013-09-19T19:31:19Z")
> [@DonnieBarko](#): > > 1. When Walt notices the bullet hole in his gas tank, his reflection is split into either two or three images of himself (I cannot remember exactly). It’s [three Walts](http://i.imgur.com/bCfMpRL.jpg), two big and one small. Which is another thing I’ve been overthinking. The show has been been pushing the Walt/Heisenberg duality, but could there be a third possibility for Walt? When he returns to ABQ in the flash forwards, he has in one sense become a third version of himself, posing as “Lambert”. Could there be more to this than just the disguise? Maybe he’s neither just the milquetoast Walt nor just the evil genius Heisenberg now, but someone or something else? And if so, who or what? A combination of the two? Maybe even someone who might get a happy ending? Or it could mean nothing at all, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/542 "2013-09-19T19:40:57Z")
> [@Martian Bigfoot](#): > > It’s [three Walts](http://i.imgur.com/bCfMpRL.jpg), two big and one small. > > Which is another thing I’ve been overthinking. The show has been been pushing the Walt/Heisenberg duality, but could there be a third possibility for Walt? > > When he returns to ABQ in the flash forwards, he has in one sense become a third version of himself, posing as “Lambert”. Could there be more to this than just the disguise? Maybe he’s neither just the milquetoast Walt nor just the evil genius Heisenberg now, but someone or something else? And if so, who or what? A combination of the two? Maybe even someone who might get a happy ending? > > Or it could mean nothing at all, I guess. FWIW, Lambert is Skyler and Marie’s maiden name. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/543 "2013-09-19T20:26:15Z")
[Lambert??!!](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambert_the_Sheepish_Lion) Duuude. ---
**Author:** ![Dogzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@Dogzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogzilla)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/544 "2013-09-19T20:49:28Z")
> [@Tarwater](#): > > Todd is basically a dog. Like, if you put a dog’s brain into a human body and gave it the ability to speak, what you’d have is Todd. What breed, do you think? Is Todd a Jack Russell terrier? Or is Todd a pitbull? Is Todd a German Shepherd? I’m actually having more fun trying to decide which dog fits Todd. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/545 "2013-09-19T21:19:29Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > Oh, its not the _worst_. Just _not very good_. > But again, _not_ the dumbest show on TV. > [@Gatopescado](#): > > I think we deserve better. … Think you could sneak in an electromagnet? I’m just making the point that sometimes we deserve better. When writers treat us like idiots, and we don’t call them on it, well… I don’t mind at all that you feel this way and express it, but I AM fascinated by your opinion. Does the abvoe represent your basic beef, that you find it requires too much suspension of disbelief? I’m genuinely interested in you elaborating. I’d also be much obliged if you’d throw out a few examples of what you consider genuinely superior shows. Not as a debate or argument, just curiosity. > [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > That must have been weird for Cranston and Paul. To have their characters change so much over 6 years, then at the very end have to act how they were at the beginning. It was so weird for Paul he did a rather poor job of it, I thought. Not a big deal, but he was noticeably reaching for a characterization that he was too distant from. It was overdone. > [@hajario](#): > > I still have in my mind the way Walt started sobbing when he said that he had taken out Hank. You could see that his heart was completely broken over what had happened. He really did love Hank. He had real affection for Hank, but the source of his pain was the knowledge that Hank’s death would seal his fate with his family. > [@SlackerInc](#): > > Usually love that guy (his addled veteran with a puppet was the most brilliant thing ever), but he is off on this one. Walt has been shown cradling Holly, feeding her, putting her to sleep, etc. many, many times. Sometimes it has been to creepy effect, like when he was holding her and watching Scarface, but he clearly is crazy about her and has been shown holding her much more than was strictly necessary for the plot especially given the way TV babies are often left off as afterthoughts. In one of the podcasts, I believe, there was some discussion about how Cranston deserves some kind of award for being the most loving, tender baby wrangler of all time. I agree. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/546 "2013-09-19T21:26:37Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Right. It’s the difference between criticism and just dumping on something to be annoying. The distinction is usually pretty obvious. At this point **Gatopescado** seems to be making a game of seeing how slowly he can drag himself toward the correct side of that line. So: **Gatopescado** , I’ve been about as patient as I’m going to be. You need to cut the crap right now. And other posters need to stop arguing with **Gatopescado** about what he’s doing because it’s turning into a hijack. The post I just made was one I had written a couple of days ago and neglected to hit “submit” on. I didn’t see the moderation on that conversation, so if it is a bad thing, apologies. But as I said, I was not upset or looking for a fight, I am just genuinely curious, since BB is so highly praised… I mean… [‘Breaking Bad’ Sets Guinness World Record](http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/breaking-bad-sets-guinness-world-622475): > [@](#): > > Breaking Bad will enter the record books as the “Highest-Rated TV Series,”after receiving a metascore of 99 out of 100 on [MetaCritic.com](http://MetaCritic.com). So it’s always interesting me to hear the viewpoints of people who disagree that BB is **The Greatest Television Show In The History of The Universe** …cuz it is. 😃 [Even though some people say it’s the Wire, which I understand.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIom3LSbB0I) ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/547 "2013-09-19T21:57:12Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > The post I just made was one I had written a couple of days ago and neglected to hit “submit” on. I didn’t see the moderation on that conversation, so if it is a bad thing, apologies. But as I said, I was not upset or looking for a fight, I am just genuinely curious, since BB is so highly praised… I mean… Make a new thread, this one is on track. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/548 "2013-09-19T23:32:43Z")
> [@Frazzled](#): > > nazi’s … Aryan’s … I apologize for doing what I’m about to do, but I’m hoping if I mention it that something that truly bothers me will happen less often. The plural of _Nazi_ is _Nazis_. The plural of _Aryan_ is _Aryans_. No apostrophes. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/549 "2013-09-19T23:59:34Z")
> [@What\_the](#): > > re Walt’s bday … I would think that it is very important to change it when you change your identity. It would be a nice twist to find that he did and assumptions about the timing that the audience makes are wrong. If I was going to assume a new identity, I’d be tempted to keep my birthday - one less thing to keep track of in whatever my concocted back story turns out to be. And if someone is tracking me down and thinks they’ve found me - the fact that my driver’s license has my birthday is going to be the least of my worries. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2013, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/550 "2013-09-20T00:11:24Z")
> [@standingwave](#): > > “_My nephew here, he respects you. He would never forgive me if things went another way. Also, I’ll be honest, you caught me in one hell of a good mood._” > > I’ve never gotten the vibe that Jack is afraid of Todd. More like, sense he’s family, he listens to him a little more and cares about their relationship, such as it is. Yeah. The impression I get is that he’s willing to indulge a family member he likes and has a bit of respect for. Nothing more. But I could be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2013, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/551 "2013-09-20T01:33:14Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > So it’s always interesting me to hear the viewpoints of people who disagree that BB is **The Greatest Television Show In The History of The Universe** …cuz it is. 😃 > > [Even though some people say it’s the Wire, which I understand.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIom3LSbB0I) That reminds me an SNL sketch back in the late 90s skewering all the lavish praise critics heaped on the Sopranos. It was presented as a commercial for the Sopranos with just the logo and quotes displayed on the screen as the announcer reads them. They got progressively more ridiculous until finally, badly paraphrased from decade-old memory: If I were given a choice to reach perfect enlightenment and joy with full knowledge of the ultimate answers to the meaning of life and the nature of the universe, or the chance to watch 30 seconds of the Sopranos, I’d choose the Sopranos. - Peter Graves, LA Times Uuuuuuuuhhh - Bill James, SF Chronicle hehheh. They should dust off that sketch for Breaking Bad. ---
**Author:** ![oft\_wears\_hats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@oft\_wears\_hats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oft_wears_hats)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2013, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/552 "2013-09-20T02:01:46Z")
I remember that sketch. “I await the day that The Sopranos replaces air as the substance we breathe.” “Every day I live in fear that The Sopranos will cease to exist, and I will be forced to kill myself.” Heh. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2013, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/553 "2013-09-20T03:17:29Z")
> [@Dogzilla](#): > > What breed, do you think? > > Is Todd a Jack Russell terrier? > > Or is Todd a pitbull? > > Is Todd a German Shepherd? > > I’m actually having more fun trying to decide which dog fits Todd. On the surface, he’s like those shaggy English sheep dogs whose eye you can’t see. > [@Yookeroo](#): > > Yeah. The impression I get is that he’s willing to indulge a family member he likes and has a bit of respect for. Nothing more. But I could be wrong. That’s my impression too as well as that he’s clueless to the personal danger Todd could represent. ---
**Author:** ![standingwave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@standingwave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/standingwave)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2013, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/554 "2013-09-20T05:43:00Z")
> [@Yookeroo](#): > > Yeah. The impression I get is that he’s willing to indulge a family member he likes and has a bit of respect for. Nothing more. But I could be wrong. Hell, I could be wrong too. But I get the impression that Jack gives Todd a little more leway/respect than he would give his other lieutenants because of family. Nothing more. And certainly no fear, The reveal of Hank as BIL to Walt was a surprise to all of the AB, and note how Hank asks Todd if he’d heard of this before. There is no doubt who’s in charge. Todd is just a beloved nephew, much as I treat my nephews as my own sons. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2013, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/555 "2013-09-20T05:49:28Z")
That was how I took the scene, too. If Todd’s a psycho, he is not the first one to join the Aryan Brotherhood. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2013, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/556 "2013-09-20T06:41:02Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Why did Walt take Holly? Was it part of the calculated effort to clear his family; he knew that his wife would call the cops if the baby was kidnapped? Or was it just lashing out against his family that had turned against him, and he later thought better of it when he realized he was not going to be able to hightail it out of town with a baby. I find myself puzzled by the general reaction to this online. I thought the reason for this was quite clear, but I seem to be very lonely in my viewpoint on it, which makes me question whether I’m actually in tune with what the writers intended. I do wonder though if the people who see it differently have not been doting dads to a sweet little baby like Holly. I have, so to me it is clear that it is quite simple: he adores Holly (there have been many scenes over the years establishing this), and cannot bear to lose her. I will fully admit that I was, although I am generally not “Team Walt”, rooting for him to make his getaway with her. (Were I a mother of a baby instead of a father of one, I likely would have empathised more with Skyler’s position and been especially horrified watching her be left behind without Holly.) > [@Human\_Action](#): > > I’d be disappointed if the neo-Nazis pulled $70 million out of the ground, and went right on cooking meth, because it would undermine the show’s major characters. I so disagree with this. I am with **Frazzled**. I mean, Walt said at the start that he needed about one percent of that amount, but in the end look how much he amassed. And I mean, I’m glad everyone commenting on the Internet is not greedy and would settle for that much money and retire, but I think the kind of people who become multimillionaires are inherently not like that. Otherwise we wouldn’t have any billionaires. > [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > It’s one thing to miss it while watching the show the first time, but to have it explained and still call it stupid… What’s wild is that at least two professional TV critics are stubbornly sticking to this POV, even mocking viewers who saw the call as a ruse. Vulture’s Matt Zoller-Seitz [tweeted](https://twitter.com/mattzollerseitz/status/380454311697731584): > [@](#): > > How much overlap on Venn diagram between “Walt was just faking the anger” and “Tony got whacked @ diner”? Lots, I bet. To which Mo Ryan [responded](https://twitter.com/moryan/status/380457906585366528), snarkily: > [@](#): > > @mattzollerseitz “walt just faking anger” & “not enough whackings in Sopranos” overlap: 97 percent. I mean, the contempt is just dripping there. So then an interview with the episode’s writer and director goes up on Vulture, including the following: > [@](#): > > **I’ve seen different reactions to Walt’s phone call to Skyler. Some say it was all a ploy to save her from prosecution; others says that it was real and he was railing at her. Does the debate surprise you?** > \*Walley-Beckett: \*I personally feel like it wasn’t open to interpretation. I would hope that people got that it was an absolute ploy on Walt’s part. It is the family-man part of Walt playing the part of Heisenberg to exonerate Skyler. I was hoping that the process of the lie and the subterfuge would be clear and that viewers would be with Skyler in their understanding. Confronted with this on Twitter, Ryan only semi-retreated to [this lame response](https://twitter.com/moryan/status/380555481292349440): > [@](#): > > @Kyletto the writer acknowledged ambiguity of scene in interviews & anyway, authorial intent doesn’t dictate responses & reactions. :o The writer, Walley-Beckett, really did not acknowledge said ambiguity; but when all else fails, sure: throw in the old “death of the author” excuse. Which is fine, I guess; except that Ryan had just hours earlier been contemptuously holding up for ridicule those viewers who saw the phone call as an “absolute ploy on Walt’s part”. Which raises the question: does Ryan think Walley-Beckett is among the 97 percent, or the other three? :rolleyes: > [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > She was clean, going to meetings, and employed (albeit by her father) when Jesse showed up. Right, and she tried to get Jesse to go to a meeting instead of using. It was when she was forced to choose between being with Jesse and staying sober that she succumbed. But why do you describe her as being employed by her father? Oh, you mean as the landlady. But she also worked in a tattoo parlour, which she amusingly defended to her dad as “actually really corporate” when he worried it was a bad place for an addict to work. > [@Martian Bigfoot](#): > > Hey, \*\*Hentor \*\*and **Frazzled** , guess what? I think you’re both right. Marie is gloating, but she also truly cares about Skyler. She’s there to show that she’s won, but she is also genuinely looking for reconciliation, because she still needs her sister back (much like Skyler after she found out about Marie’s shoplifting way back when, just turned up to 11). The two sets of motives aren’t mutually exclusive. These characters, like real people, are complex enough to have both in their heads at once. This. > [@Human\_Action](#): > > Agreed; if Walt really had won that kind of money playing legal blackjack, he’d have W2-G forms issued by the casino. As Skyler will be unable to produce them, I can’t see the blackjack story holding up to the slightest scrutiny. As **Snarky Kong** said, Saul got him those forms. Think about it: what sense would it make to buy a business and use it to launder money if you can’t show a plausible way to have purchased the business to begin with? Defeats the whole purpose. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2013, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/557 "2013-09-20T09:02:57Z")
Heck, I didn’t pick up on “Walt trying to absolve Skyler”, I just thought he’d lost it, but I accept the interpretation. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2013, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/558 "2013-09-20T09:26:33Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > The writer, Walley-Beckett, really did not acknowledge said ambiguity; but when all else fails, sure: throw in the old “death of the author” excuse. As I’m always finding myself as the apologist for the “death of the author excuse” around here, I first have to say that he’s right in one sense. Authorial intent doesn’t and shouldn’t dictate critical responses, and art would be a lot more boring if we for some reason decided that it should. (I doubt Moira Walley-Beckett thinks so either, at least it doesn’t jibe with my impression from the podcast. Which doesn’t mean she’s not allowed to talk about her own scripts.) But for crying out loud, there is interpretation and there’s interpretation, and it’s not all equally valid. If I made the claim that Walt’s body in that moment was taken over by aliens, you don’t have to talk about authorial intent to see that I’m being stupid. In my opinion, at least, anyone who can’t see that what Walt is saying in that scene is not what he’s actually feeling (at least after having it pointed out), must have been watching another show entirely. I mean, just look at his face. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2013, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/559 "2013-09-20T09:57:14Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > FWIW, Lambert is Skyler and Marie’s maiden name. That was one of the points brought up in connection with the theory that bears **Bob Ducca** ’s name (although he says that he first saw it on reddit), about Walt picking up traits from his victims. Walt using Skyler’s maiden name might be a hint that he had killed Skyler. I guess that looks a lot less likely now, although there’s still time for some twists (I’m still hoping, as I was totally sold on it). ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2013, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/560 "2013-09-20T10:25:59Z")
**Martian** , can you link me to other threads where you’ve stuck up for the “death of the author” perspective? It’s an interesting subject and I’d like to see what you’ve had to say; but I don’t want to hijack the thread. ETA: Mo Ryan is a “she”, just FYI. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893.md?page=27) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893.md?page=29)