# Breaking Bad 5.14 "Ozymandias" 9/15/13 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 15, 2013, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893 "2013-09-15T06:43:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Orr\_G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ee59a6/32.png) [@Orr\_G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orr_G)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/101 "2013-09-16T03:30:55Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > No, Walt staged the entire phone call to make Skyler look innocent. This went over my head completely as I was watching (which bothers me, because I usually catch stuff like that). When I told my wife about your brilliant comment, she was like, yeah, that’s what happened. She pointed out his tears as he said those things as evidence in favor of this interpretation. I’m buying it. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/102 "2013-09-16T03:31:23Z")
That was the most intense episode of BB I’ve seen. Like some others, I just discovered this show recently and binge watched it to catch up. I"m predicting the flash forward in the first episode of this second half of the season (where Walt goes back to his home to get the ricin) ends in Walt using it to commit suicide. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/103 "2013-09-16T03:33:17Z")
> [@Martian Bigfoot](#): > > For those pondering the significance of the name “Holly”: It is also > > Vince Gilligan’s girlfriend’s name. It’s also one of the plant/decorations you see around Christmas…with poisonous berries. Not terribly poisonous (to humans), but I’m sure more thought was put into the toxicity of the berry then Vince’s girlfriends name or an X-Files reference (of which there are already several of in the series). That’s not something easily overlooked considering the Lily Of The Valley and the Ricin. ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/104 "2013-09-16T03:36:12Z")
This episode could’ve been called The Tale of Two Phonecalls. The contrast between the calls was heartbreaking. He was forced to say goodbye in the worst possible way, by pretending to be an even bigger monster than he is. I actually dreaded logging on here, because I assumed a lot of people missed what was going on in that scene but I should have had more faith! ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/105 "2013-09-16T03:36:20Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > I"m predicting the flash forward in the first episode of this second half of the season (where Walt goes back to his home to get the ricin) ends in Walt using it to commit suicide. The thing is, death by ricin sounds agonizing and slow. He’d need to take it days before whatever he’s planning. If Walt intend to kill himself to avoid capture, he probably could’ve just made some cyanide or something. I think ricin would be more useful to poison someone unsuspecting. > [@Erdosain](#): > > This episode could’ve been called The Tale of Two Phonecalls. > > The contrast between the calls was heartbreaking. He was forced to say goodbye in the worst possible way, by pretending to be an even bigger monster than he is. > > I actually dreaded logging on here, because I assumed a lot of people missed what was going on in that scene but I should have had more faith! You know what made me really sad? The way Skyler said “Hi” or whatever it was when she answered the phone. She was glad to hear from Walt. We haven’t heard anything like that tone of voice since, I’m guessing, somewhere early in season one. ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/106 "2013-09-16T03:36:24Z")
Ok dumb question - what was Hank referring to when he said he was Asac Schrader And I totally agree with needing to see Jesse kill Todd ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/107 "2013-09-16T03:39:55Z")
> [@Orr\_G](#): > > This went over my head completely as I was watching (which bothers me, because I usually catch stuff like that). > > When I told my wife about your brilliant comment, she was like, yeah, that’s what happened. She pointed out his tears as he said those things as evidence in favor of this interpretation. I’m buying it. I’m no genius but, honestly, I can’t believe anyone missed what Walt was doing. Even the guys on ‘Talking Bad’ seemed unsure about it. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/108 "2013-09-16T03:40:11Z")
Assistant Special Agent in Charge = ASAC ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/109 "2013-09-16T03:40:58Z")
> [@well\_he\_s\_back](#): > > Ok dumb question - what was Hank referring to when he said he was Asac Schrader > And I totally agree with needing to see Jesse kill Todd ASAC = Assistant Special Agent in Charge (right?) ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/110 "2013-09-16T03:41:12Z")
> [@well\_he\_s\_back](#): > > Ok dumb question - what was Hank referring to when he said he was Asac Schrader > And I totally agree with needing to see Jesse kill Todd Himself. He’s the Assistant Special Agent in Charge. It’s his title. Ninja’d Ninja’d ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/111 "2013-09-16T03:41:24Z")
Thanks, Zoid &everybody. Appreciated ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/112 "2013-09-16T03:44:36Z")
Watching the re-run… Poor Gomie (Gomy?) ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/113 "2013-09-16T03:46:00Z")
> [@Alice\_The\_Goon](#): > > Do you think that song was telling _us_ to say goodbye to everyone? It’s starting to look like that. That was an inspired song choice. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/114 "2013-09-16T03:54:01Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > That was a good death for Hank. I’m surprised at how sad that makes me. He didn’t exactly do himself proud with the ‘I don’t care if Jesse gets killed’ thing, but he didn’t waver at the end- you knew he wouldn’t (Jack did, too). He even gave his name as ASAC Schrader instead of Hank. Since they had to bleep the “Go fuck yourself” I kind of wish that line about “You bet the cavalry’s coming” had been his last piece of dialogue. I had thought some about Hank’s comment about Jesse. It’s definitely true, for a DEA agent to have a “who cares” attitude about an informant is a moral failing. But it also highlights what I think is at least a multi-year tendency (at least by people on the various internet outlets discussing this show) to forgive and forget when it comes to Jesse. Because Jesse is “nice” or “bothered” by what he’s done or what has happened. I can agree, Jesse has humanity while Walt mostly doesn’t. But Hank was also 100% right, Jesse is a murderer, period. He has killed people for his own benefit and for no other reason. He’s also a junkie, he’s peddled drugs to people in drug treatment. Jesse is only a good guy by comparison, but I do think people go way too far when they try to say Jesse is a good guy “in general”, because he really isn’t. If you brushed by a Jesse in real life, he’s likely to be the worst criminal you’d have ever been around in your life–a drug manufacturer, multiple murderer who has intentionally preyed on the weak and vulnerable. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/115 "2013-09-16T03:55:21Z")
Oh, and while we’re listing sad things: Hank being buried in the hole where the money was. There’s some painful irony for Walt. > [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > I can agree, Jesse has humanity while Walt mostly doesn’t. But Hank was also 100% right, Jesse is a murderer, period. He has killed people for his own benefit and for no other reason. He’s also a junkie, he’s peddled drugs to people in drug treatment. Jesse is only a good guy by comparison, but I do think people go way too far when they try to say Jesse is a good guy “in general”, because he really isn’t. If you brushed by a Jesse in real life, he’s likely to be the worst criminal you’d have ever been around in your life–a drug manufacturer, multiple murderer who has intentionally preyed on the weak and vulnerable. All true. It’s easy to understand why people feel sympathy for Jesse - and I do, too, because he is clearly tormented about what he’s done and because he was looking for approval from perhaps the worst father figure in fiction - but that doesn’t mean he gets a pass on everything he’s done. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/116 "2013-09-16T03:56:36Z")
> [@Edward\_The\_Head](#): > > I doubt that, who do you think Walt is gunning for? Walt was willing to give everything for Hank. Now Walt’s pissed, really pissed. > > One does have to wonder how much Walt thinks he’s really fucked things up. I mean he could have just cooked for Gus for a bit, taken the car wash and run like hell. But he had to have his empire, and now it’s cost him Hank’s life, his son’s respect, and when he does die it will be pretty much alone. Walt started it all and bears a great deal of responsibility for Hank’s death. But Hank’s pride also put him in the ground. Hank knew his law enforcement career was over, but his pride demanded he at least bring Walt in as his final act. That pride lead him to ignore all norms of procedure, it lead him to get his friend Gomez killed and lead him to put an informant in harm’s way. I really like Hank, Hank was stand up when he beat the shit out of Jesse. He didn’t fall back on all the ways police have to weasel out of charges like that, he acknowledged he was wrong and stood up like a man. Hank had a lot of integrity. But in the end he let his pride make him do things that set him up to get killed. If he had turned his investigation over to the DEA at really any point at all, it most likely would have been investigated to the point Walt would have been caught. It just wouldn’t have been Walt being caught by Hank. ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/117 "2013-09-16T03:57:56Z")
Walt literally dug Hank’s grave. (Ok, he dug it, filled it in, and the Nazis dug it again. Technicality.) ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/118 "2013-09-16T03:58:08Z")
I thought last week’s was shoddy and I was getting nervous. I never should have doubted. This was a glittering work of art. I am glad that they don’t go far very far valorizing Jesse. He may have a conscience, but it is a weak and self-serving one that really only kicks in when he isn’t busy. It’s a nice little inversion of “idle hands are the devil’s workshop.” ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/119 "2013-09-16T03:58:40Z")
Brilliant. Yes, Walt staged that phone call and Skyler figured it out once he called her a bitch. That’s when her tone totally changed when she was talking to him and so Walt knew that he got his message across. Amazing acting by Cranston and Gunn. I just re-watched that scene and their faces and voices were incredibly perfect. So, who is Walt after? The Nazis are long gone. It’s just Todd and Jesse cooking but how is Walt going to know that or even where to find them? I guess that we’ll find out next time. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893/120 "2013-09-16T04:01:04Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Walt started it all and bears a great deal of responsibility for Hank’s death. But Hank’s pride also put him in the ground. Hank knew his law enforcement career was over, but his pride demanded he at least bring Walt in as his final act. That pride lead him to ignore all norms of procedure, it lead him to get his friend Gomez killed and lead him to put an informant in harm’s way. Absolutely. He had some choices to make when he walked out of that bathroom, and he pretty much made all the wrong ones. At the end of the day, he put his pride and his ego first. Same as Walt. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-14-ozymandias-9-15-13/668893.md?page=7)