# Breaking Bad 5.15 "Granite State" 9/22/13 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 22, 2013, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429 "2013-09-22T09:43:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/201 "2013-09-23T15:25:14Z")
> [@Martian Bigfoot](#): > > Are we really supposed to believe that Todd is doing all this just for the chance the get into Lydia’s pants? That’s some weak sauce motivation, psycho or not. If he’s in it for the empire, I might at least believe it to an extent. The kid is ambitious. As Todd’s love consiglieris observed, “the heart wants what the heart wants”, and, it’s all about the ♦ (I think they were quoting from Sonnets of the Portuguese) ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/202 "2013-09-23T15:26:53Z")
> [@corkboard](#): > > They’re neo-Nazis, white supremacists. They’re basically [the Aryan Brotherhood](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan_Brotherhood). We’ve been calling them Nazis as shorthand, though, and it seems to have stuck. > [@Joey\_P](#): > > He is in another movie right now, but that could just be a combination of Jesse not being a regular meth user and Aaron Paul being 34 instead of 29. I think a lot of people put on 15 or 20 pounds when they got into their early thirties. BTW, has Jesse quit smoking all of a sudden? I can’t remember seeing him with a cigarette since the Brock poisoning revelation. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/203 "2013-09-23T15:29:19Z")
> [@corkboard](#): > > I don’t think Saul was tipping Walt to where he’d be relocated to with the “Omaha” comment- it’s just typical Saul hyperbole, as if to say, in a month I’ll be in the middle of nowhere working some nondescript fast food clerk job. Ed told Saul he was sending him to Nebraska. Saul wasn’t happy about it. > [@Andiethewestie](#): > > I think a really satisfying ending would be to expose the Schwartz’s as corporate slime balls, since they had Walt by the short and curlys in the first place, a buy out of $5,000.00 was chump change but he needed it, Skyler was pregnant with Flynn. I think all of that is wrong, and for some reason you’re taking Walt’s version of the story at face value. Walt left Gretchen and quit Gray Matter. We don’t know why he did that, but it sounds personal rather than anything related to business. (I’ve always assumed he thought Gretchen’s family was judging him or something.) He chose to quit without a word, but somehow it’s their fault. > [@](#): > > They did offer to pay for Walt’s medical bills initially, which he flatly refused, and at the time I thought it was just Walt’s pride, but now, I’m not so sure. It was his pride. He even went out of his way to blow them off when they offered to help and asked what was going on. > [@](#): > > I just don’t believe they’re simply good samaritans, but have an overwhelming desire to separate themselves from Walt. Of course they do. Their association with him is now a threat to their company even though they haven’t worked together in ages. > [@](#): > > Grey Matter Technologies may have an interest in Madrigal, and Lydia would know. That sounds kind of unlikely. Gray Matter is a drug company and Madrigal is an older conglomerate that works in a bunch of different industries. Madrigal is almost certainly a larger company. Anyway most of Madrigal’s business is legal. As far as we know, the meth thing was the work of a handful of people within the food division of the company. > [@](#): > > Why do brilliant guys like Walt Break Bad? They are the anti-heros of today, railing at systemic corruption by creating their own empire. Wow. That might be the wrongest thing I have ever read about this show. ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/204 "2013-09-23T15:34:21Z")
> [@solost](#): > > Yeah, there’s Huell, but Hank and Gomez interrogated him as part of their personal gig, and the Nazis broke into Hank’s house and took all their evidence (presumably). So my impression is the DEA doesn’t even know about Huell. All they know is that Walt is Heisenberg. Unless they’re going by what Marie also knows. > > I was just a little surprised to see Saul disappear-- seemed a little out of character. He’s afraid of getting killed but he seems like a good enough (or weaselly enough) lawyer to not freak at the first sign of legal trouble, even in a DEA investigation. He could always disappear if there was some indication the Feds were coming after him. But maybe it was just a “writing on the wall” thing. Well, at the very least, he knows Skyler’s a defendant, her lawyer’s telling her to cooperate, and she knows he’s neck-deep in Walt’s business. I didn’t think it was out of character: it seemed like what he’d told Walt to do, and he’s taking his own advice. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/205 "2013-09-23T15:35:30Z")
I think it makes perfect sense that Saul took off, and in fact would have been implausible if he hadn’t. He wanted to leave once before and Walt intimidated him into not doing so, but remember Skyler alone knows plenty to put him away forever, and he doesn’t know how much she’s going to be talking… nor dose he know how little the DEA knows aside from that. I agree this episode was a bit of a lull after last week, but it still had some wonderful moments. It did such a good job of showing Walt’s decline from cancer and loneliness, and really set things up for the flashbacks we’ve seen so far. ---
**Author:** ![SuperNelson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7feea3/32.png) [@SuperNelson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuperNelson)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/206 "2013-09-23T15:59:20Z")
> [@LinusK](#): > > Todd’s supposed to be a contradiction: a bloodless killer and a doe-eyed romantic, simultaneously. I mean, you might not believe those traits could co-exist, but that’s his character. Even when he killed Andrea, he apologized, beforehand. “It’s not personal.” The bottom-line is he’s crazy. Crazy-people morals aren’t the same as the rest of us. “She seemed nice” might be seem perfectly logical, if you’re a crazy-person. I’ve been on the fence about Todd until now. Polite to a fault, had a tear in his eye when Walt was begging for Hank’s life, while doing the awful things because he had no choice. I even could have accepted him believing that the only way to save Jesse’s life was to torture him for information. But tonight I saw the crazy. Did you see the impish smile Todd had when Uncle Jack learned that he had shot the little boy in the desert? ---
**Author:** ![SuperNelson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7feea3/32.png) [@SuperNelson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuperNelson)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/207 "2013-09-23T16:02:00Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Flynn. 😉 But yes, for the second episode in a row he was the one who stood up and did the right thing. I noticed that he’s going by Flynn White now, even though his mother has reverted to Skylar Lambert. I can’t decide if there was still a sliver of loyalty to Walt, and the White family name, or if he’s so angry at Skylar that he doesn’t think Lambert is any better. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/208 "2013-09-23T16:02:36Z")
> [@SuperNelson](#): > > Did you see the impish smile Todd had when Uncle Jack learned that he had shot the little boy in the desert? Yup. Creepy shit. But if we’re agreeing Todd’s a psycho we should also point out that the whole gang was watching Jesse’s confession for laughs and that nobody cared when it came out that Todd killed a kid. Well, other than Jack wanting to kill Jesse because he was ratting on Todd. These guys are all that psycho. Todd just has that eerie layer of surface politeness. ---
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/209 "2013-09-23T16:04:14Z")
I think the thing that lit a fire under Walt’s ass was the mention of the blue meth being back in production. Not that he cares that Jessie is alive to make it. He just doesn’t want it made period. The M-60 is for shooting up the lab and the methylamine and ending production of it. Todd and/or Jesse getting in the way of a bullet would be a bonus. ---
**Author:** ![SuperNelson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7feea3/32.png) [@SuperNelson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuperNelson)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/210 "2013-09-23T16:04:15Z")
> [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > I hope it wins a lot next year, but I’m worried that it’ll be overlooked, since it’ll have been almost a year from the last episode until the next Emmy voting time. But in a just world, it would sweep basically every category that it’s eligible for next year. And in a wonderful world, we would have another show next year that was good enough to give “Breaking Bad” a run for it’s money. But I’m not holding my breath. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/211 "2013-09-23T16:08:42Z")
> [@SuperNelson](#): > > > [@Marley23](#): > > > > Flynn. 😉 But yes, for the second episode in a row he was the one who stood up and did the right thing. > > I noticed that he’s going by Flynn White now, even though his mother has reverted to Skylar Lambert. I can’t decide if there was still a sliver of loyalty to Walt, and the White family name, or if he’s so angry at Skylar that he doesn’t think Lambert is any better. Perhaps it’s simply a legal thing? Skyler’s legal name was Lambert at one point, so she can more easily revert to it. But his last name has always been White. ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/212 "2013-09-23T16:11:09Z")
> [@drastic\_quench](#): > > Billions. With a B. Grey Matter is worth multi billions. Walt would have been a billionaire. At first I didn’t buy the whole Heisenberg/Grey Matter/stock drop/Charley Rose thing but I guess I’m looking at it backwards… Heisenberg must have gained national attention for it to affect the stock price of a company enough to go on the Charley Rose show. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/213 "2013-09-23T16:11:54Z")
> [@UncleRojelio](#): > > I think the thing that lit a fire under Walt’s ass was the mention of the blue meth being back in production. Not that he cares that Jessie is alive to make it. He just doesn’t want it made period. The M-60 is for shooting up the lab and the methylamine and ending production of it. Todd and/or Jesse getting in the way of a bullet would be a bonus. That seems plausible. But does he not want the blue meth in production out of ego, or because it increases the heat on him, by suggesting that he’s still out there making the stuff? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Controvert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dec6dc/32.png) [@The\_Controvert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Controvert)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/214 "2013-09-23T16:13:13Z")
The more I think about Grey Matter, the more I think it might end up being a misdirection. The show led us to think the Schwartzes wronged Walt. What if they’re genuinely the good guys? We now know GM donated millions for drug rehab. Near the beginning, they offered to help Walt with his medical bills without hesitation. They had to distance themselves from Walt to avoid bad PR to the company – it’s their fiduciary responsibility to their stockholders to do that. In fact, if I may “predict bad”, I would guess that Walt realizes GM is his family’s salvation and he goes to them to help his family. After all, GM has loads of clean money and enough corporate influence to get the government to back off Skyler. It’s amazing what a sizable donation to a senator’s re-election campaign can do. Maybe initially Walt threatens to heap more bad publicity on GM if they don’t help. But the Schwartzes tell Walt they _want_ to help – all Walt needed to do was _ask_. Then Walt realizes it was only his pride that caused all this suffering and finally breaks down and accepts their help. With Walt’s goal of providing for his family resolved, it frees him up to go full Heisenberg to get his vengence on Jack and his crew. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/215 "2013-09-23T16:18:52Z")
I dunno about this week being a lull. I wasn’t expecting Jesse to try to escape and fail, then be forced to watch Andrea get murdered. That was harder to watch and more tense for me than anything last week. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/216 "2013-09-23T16:34:36Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > That seems plausible. But does he not want the blue meth in production out of ego, or because it increases the heat on him, by suggesting that he’s still out there making the stuff? No, it’s ego. He’s responsible for killing a couple of DEA agents. That’s more than enough to keep the heat on him. > [@The\_Controvert](#): > > The show led us to think the Schwartzes wronged Walt. Not true. It showed us that Walt resents the Schwartzes very, very deeply. He accused them of getting rich off his research, and we know they look at it differently. It sounds like he left Gretchen without a word. > [@](#): > > In fact, if I may “predict bad”, I would guess that Walt realizes GM is his family’s salvation and he goes to them to help his family. After all, GM has loads of clean money and enough corporate influence to get the government to back off Skyler. It’s amazing what a sizable donation to a senator’s re-election campaign can do. He could have done that right at the beginning of the show and he decided he’d rather make crystal meth. It’s hard to imagine them cooperating with him now. It would deepen the ties between Gray Matter and Walt, and that’s the opposite of what they want. Also: Walt used them as cover for his criminal activity and his last words to Gretchen were “fuck you.” > [@](#): > > Then Walt realizes it was only his pride that caused all this suffering and finally breaks down and accepts their help. With Walt’s goal of providing for his family resolved, it frees him up to go full Heisenberg to get his vengence on Jack and his crew. His pride is the only thing he has left. Without it, he has no reason to get revenge on Jack. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/217 "2013-09-23T16:44:34Z")
The bit with Gray Matter may be one of the more important motivators we have never seen. Either Walt is delusional and he really had nothing to do with Gray Matter, or the Schwartzes used him to found the company and virtually cut him out, an “I built this” moment. Companies use their employees and take credit all the time. Think Steve Jobs. He invented nothing, but dominated all the credit without really understanding how the product works, just that it was pretty and he was the guy who insisted it be pretty, elegant and marketed correctly. The finale will be interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/218 "2013-09-23T16:57:04Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Either Walt is delusional and he really had nothing to do with Gray Matter, or the Schwartzes used him to found the company and virtually cut him out, an “I built this” moment. The truth is almost certainly in between. At Elliott Schwartz’s birthday party, he told everybody that Walt made very important contributions to their work. They could still be douchebags, but Walt’s stories are always self-serving and I think the “you stole my research” thing is similar. We know how he is in the drug business: everything always has to be done exactly his way and nobody can disagree with him. > [@](#): > > Think Steve Jobs. He invented nothing, but dominated all the credit without really understanding how the product works, just that it was pretty and he was the guy who insisted it be pretty, elegant and marketed correctly. That sounds unfair. Jobs wasn’t an inventor and he was a tough guy to work for, but what he did was a very important part of Apple’s success. And he had very specific visions of how Apple’s products had to function, so he had to know how they worked. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/219 "2013-09-23T17:06:50Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > That sounds unfair. Jobs wasn’t an inventor and he was a tough guy to work for, but what he did was a very important part of Apple’s success. And he had very specific visions of how Apple’s products had to function, so he had to know how they worked. He did have a very specific vision of how they had to function and his overruling of the tech people and screaming at them repeatedly to keep working on it had a huge effect on how non-tech people work with computers and I phones. But that doesn’t change the fact that abusing tech people till they made it simple was Jobs’ first piece of genius, and then making the public lust after it was the second, and he had no f’in clue how the stuff worked and was an amazing asshole who bought new cars so frequently simply because he wanted to park in handicapped spaces. He was essential to the rise and re-rise of Apple. Like fleas were necessary for bubonic plague. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/220 "2013-09-23T17:13:08Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > He did have a very specific vision of how they had to function and his overruling of the tech people and screaming at them repeatedly to keep working on it had a huge effect on how non-tech people work with computers and I phones. But that doesn’t change the fact that abusing tech people till they made it simple was Jobs’ first piece of genius, and then making the public lust after it was the second, and he had no f’in clue how the stuff worked and was an amazing asshole who bought new cars so frequently simply because he wanted to park in handicapped spaces. He was essential to the rise and re-rise of Apple. Like fleas were necessary for bubonic plague. Well, more relevantly for the current situation, I don’t think there was ever an interview with Steve Jobs in which he described Steve Wozniak (or any other key technical person at Apple) as someone whose only contribution was to help invent the company name. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429.md?page=12)