# Breaking Bad 5.15 "Granite State" 9/22/13 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 22, 2013, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429 "2013-09-22T09:43:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/261 "2013-09-23T19:43:16Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Jesse suggested Alaska, in fact. I thought he was trying to punish himself- Saul said he should go to Florida and go clubbing and meet girls on the beach, and he asked if they could ship him to Alaska instead. You’re right. But Jesse’s mood brightened at the idea of getting away from Albuquerque. ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/262 "2013-09-23T20:03:40Z")
> [@UncleRojelio](#): > > Someone may be able to check on this before I get a chance to but I know we saw Gomie’s body dumped in the hole in the desert but I could swear I remember Hank’s body being dragged away towards the truck. 99% sure we saw Hank go in the hole too. ---
**Author:** ![Washoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecae2f/32.png) [@Washoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Washoe)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/263 "2013-09-23T20:25:55Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > You’re right. But Jesse’s mood brightened at the idea of getting away from Albuquerque. He once mentioned to Jane a fantasy of working as a bush pilot (as in aircraft). That may have been the impetus behind his desire to relocate to Alaska. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/264 "2013-09-23T20:26:24Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > TL;DR Once Walt was out, it doesn’t matter what they went on to do. To me there’s a big difference between: (1) Walt and Elliot start a company, it has some good ideas, but is not really going anywhere. It’s worth $10,000 or so, Elliot buys out Walt’s share for $5000. Later, Elliot and Gretchen do a whole bunch of work and come up with new ideas and products and with these new ideas and products it becomes awesome and (2) Walt and Elliot start a company which has some key piece of technology, or key idea, that Walt was instrumental in developing or inventing. It is clear that this piece of technology has the potential to be huge. However, they have a falling out and Walt sells out for $5000. Later on the company, still basically selling stuff based on that idea that was half Walt’s, becomes huge. Legally those are more or less the same situation (assuming an ironclad contract when Walt sold out), but I think they are very different as far as how likely G+E are to feel guilty about the situation, feel they took advantage of Walt, etc. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/265 "2013-09-23T20:44:23Z")
> [@obfusciatrist](#): > > 99% sure we saw Hank go in the hole too. Yeah, we did. The person being drug away was Walt, from his collapsed position on the ground. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/266 "2013-09-23T20:54:28Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > Legally those are more or less the same situation (assuming an ironclad contract when Walt sold out), but I think they are very different as far as how likely G+E are to feel guilty about the situation, feel they took advantage of Walt, etc. I don’t think they feel they took advantage of Walt. I think they felt bad for an ex-friend who left for reasons they never really understood and who holds their success against them. **Martin Hyde** ’s quote reinforces what I thought at the time- Walt probably felt judged or excluded by Gretchen’s wealthy family and maybe he felt she failed to stick up for him. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/267 "2013-09-23T20:58:37Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > Yeah, we did. The person being drug away was Walt, from his collapsed position on the ground. No, Walt has his handcuffs unlocked and then gets up. Hank is dragged in the direction of the hole, but we don’t actually see him go in. The truck is parked right by the hole, because the guys were loading the barrels onto it. Is someone suggesting Hank isn’t in the hole? Um, why? Unless Todd is thinking about taking up taxidermy… ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/268 "2013-09-23T21:05:37Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > The plot that I most want to see revolved is Jesse’s. As dark as this show is, I can’t imagine they will leave Jesse in the hell he is in now. Yes, they have to resolve Jesse’s story. Whether it’s him escaping and getting Brock and going to Alaska, or him dying in the pit or warehouse, there has to be some resolution. > [@Simplicio](#): > > And Jesse is really the only part of his legacy he has a chance to preserve. His family won’t take the cash from him even if he got it back. He has a legacy, it’s that his name will be remembered. Maybe as Walter White, maybe just as Heisenberg, and the stories will start including exaggerations, but he’ll be remembered, like Jesse James, or Jeffrey Dahmer. It’s like the poem Ozymandias, nothing remains of his empire, but his name is still spoken of. Although Ozymandias was remembered because of the art left behind in his name. Maybe Heisenberg will be remembered because of the blue meth left behind in his name. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/269 "2013-09-23T21:05:47Z")
I think maybe the idea was that there might be evidence showing the Nazis killed Hank and Walt didn’t do it. And yes, that was Hank who was dragged toward the hole. They deliberately didn’t give us a clear view of his body. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/270 "2013-09-23T21:25:16Z")
I know an M60 gets purchased, but I’d be surprised if it is used to mow down the Aryan Brotherhood in an action movie style shootout. We could be wrong, in part because that is basically how _Scarface_ ends and we know Gilligan drew at least part of his inspiration from Scarface (something like “Mr. Rogers becomes Scarface.”) Although mind Tony Montana has an M16 with an M203 grenade launcher attached (I believe), and not an M60. There have been a few times in the past when Walt or Jesse bandied about the idea of going Arnold or Stallone c. 1985 style to solve their problems, but the show always does something different. The only times our heroes/villains have really shot people up has been special circumstance. Walt shot that one dealer in the head, but that was after running over him with a car, and Jesse was highly likely to have been killed in his attempt to take on the dealers himself. Jesse shoots Gale, but that’s basically shooting an unarmed science nerd, not an action movie type event. Walt shoots two of Gus’ thugs after killing Gus, to free Jesse from the lab. However he basically got the drop on the first guy and used the first guy to get into the lab, where he quickly uses the element of surprise to shoot the guy guarding Jesse in the head and then shoots the guy he took hostage. Walt gets lucky in his opportunity to shoot and kill Mike. Down in Mexico Jesse does kill one or two of the cartel’s guards as they escape, that’s probably the closest either of these characters have ever been to “action hero” type antics. I just don’t see Walt going the shootout route, and it makes me think the M60 is going to be used in a way we don’t expect. I expect if Walt really has some desire to wipe Jack and his crew off the face of the Earth then he’s going to use chemistry or science to do so. I do wonder why he wants to kill Jack, yes he is mad that Hank was killed as he told Saul. But it’s 100% confirmed by the end of yesterday’s episode there is simply no realistic scenario where Walt’s family will want or be able to receive a dime of Walt’s money. Even if he gets the $70m back from the AB, he’s clearly on a downward trajectory toward death, so I don’t see what he wants with the money that he literally cannot spend, cannot give to his family and really has no use for. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/271 "2013-09-23T21:33:18Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > Oh I agree completely. I am just saying it’s highly possible they have a twinge of guilt when they think of the wildly divergent path their lives took. Well before the meth anyway. I’m not sure if ‘guilt’ is the right word but I think, way back when Walt first got cancer, they had enough respect for him and were grateful for what he _actually_ did to help start up the company. If they felt guilty, maybe they felt guilty that he chose to get out so early. But it’s moot now anyways. Grey matter is now and always has been a plot device, just something they use to set things in motion from time to time. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/272 "2013-09-23T21:52:13Z")
> [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > Yes, they have to resolve Jesse’s story. Whether it’s him escaping and getting Brock and going to Alaska, or him dying in the pit or warehouse, there has to be some resolution. > > He has a legacy, it’s that his name will be remembered. Maybe as Walter White, maybe just as Heisenberg, and the stories will start including exaggerations, but he’ll be remembered, like Jesse James, or Jeffrey Dahmer. It’s like the poem Ozymandias, nothing remains of his empire, but his name is still spoken of. Although Ozymandias was remembered because of the art left behind in his name. Maybe Heisenberg will be remembered because of the blue meth left behind in his name. Somehow I take something different from that poem … the point was that this king who had declared: “My name is Ozymandias, king of kings: Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!” had nothing left behind and was not remembered other than someone having chanced upon the forgotten decay of his statues remains in the vast sands. He thought he was great and would be remembered but such greatness was fleeting indeed. No lasting legacy left behind. That’s the irony of the once great statue and the words left on its ruined pedestal. So too Walt’s “legacy” was lost in the desert sands … his empire stillborn. His end will not include stories being told for decades to come but as a mostly forgotten footnote of failed drug kingpin wannabees. His memory being legend would be him winning more than him living would be … and only a very few viewers want to see him “win.” Of course if he takes out Lydia and the Nazis (or is the catalyst for such to occur) think about what his legacy really has been - Gus’s huge drug distribution system, gone. The Mexican drug cartel kneecapped and not bringing into the SouthWest and no extant major suppliers or distribution system left. Sure a few innocents killed on the way but probably a lower bystander body count than the authorities would have had attempting to get similar results. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/273 "2013-09-23T22:13:39Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Of course if he takes out Lydia and the Nazis (or is the catalyst for such to occur) think about what his legacy really has been - Gus’s huge drug distribution system, gone. The Mexican drug cartel kneecapped and not bringing into the SouthWest and no extant major suppliers or distribution system left. Sure a few innocents killed on the way but probably a lower bystander body count than the authorities would have had attempting to get similar results. Interesting point. They should give him a medal. ---
**Author:** ![Washoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecae2f/32.png) [@Washoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Washoe)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/274 "2013-09-23T22:15:07Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Pretty sure the question was: How did Lydia pay for her carwash, _in cash or with a credit card?_ If a credit card, Skyler could probably find out who she is. Enrique may factor into this somehow. Walt wished him a hearty “feliz cumpleaños” a few minutes before Skyler shooed him away from Lydia’s rental car. If the authorities can pinpoint the day that Lydia was at the car wash, they can check traffic cams in the immediate area even if Skyler is unwilling or unable to provide the information they need. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/275 "2013-09-23T22:20:21Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Of course if he takes out Lydia and the Nazis (or is the catalyst for such to occur) think about what his legacy really has been - Gus’s huge drug distribution system, gone. The Mexican drug cartel kneecapped and not bringing into the SouthWest and no extant major suppliers or distribution system left. Sure a few innocents killed on the way but probably a lower bystander body count than the authorities would have had attempting to get similar results. But what does that really mean? It means there isn’t one king pin at the top making all the money. Similar operations will reopen all over the Southwest/Mexico/Europe. People don’t stop wanting drugs because the supply dried up. They buy from somewhere else and when they start paying enough for it eventually someone starts making it locally because they see how much money there is in it. They cycle will just start over. It won’t be blue and it won’t be 92+%, but the tweakers will learn to deal. If it were that easy the “drug war” would have been won years ago. But, yes, Walt did bring down Gus and the cartel and depending on what happens next week, maybe Lydia. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/276 "2013-09-23T23:22:46Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Wow. That might be the wrongest thing I have ever read about this show. I’m happy to hear that! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/277 "2013-09-23T23:23:26Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I don’t think they feel they took advantage of Walt. I think they felt bad for an ex-friend who left for reasons they never really understood and who holds their success against them. **Martin Hyde** ’s quote reinforces what I thought at the time- Walt probably felt judged or excluded by Gretchen’s wealthy family and maybe he felt she failed to stick up for him. It was a straight-up love triangle. Walt’s friend and co-founder stole his girlfriend. After that, Walt didn’t want to stick around. (Would you?) So he sold out and went - wherever he went after that. Since it was Gretchen’s family that was bringing the money to the table, there was nothing else for Walt to do. How could he continue to work with the two people who’d so intimately betrayed him? Of course, at the time there was no way to know the company would be worth billions, but I’m sure in Walt’s mind, in hindsight, it looks inevitable. Anyway, they know why he left. They may not say why publicly, but they know. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/278 "2013-09-23T23:48:00Z")
> [@LinusK](#): > > It was a straight-up love triangle. Walt’s friend and co-founder stole his girlfriend. After that, Walt didn’t want to stick around. (Would you?) So he sold out and went - wherever he went after that. Since it was Gretchen’s family that was bringing the money to the table, there was nothing else for Walt to do. How could he continue to work with the two people who’d so intimately betrayed him? > > Of course, at the time there was no way to know the company would be worth billions, but I’m sure in Walt’s mind, in hindsight, it looks inevitable. > > Anyway, they know why he left. They may not say why publicly, but they know. Love triangle may seem obvious, but there has never been a shred of evidence that is what happened. In their lunch (which mainly consisted of them arguing and Walt dropping the F bomb on Gretchen) Grethen makes it very clear she believes at least, that Walt left/abandoned her in the relationship and in the company. That wouldn’t make sense if there was a love triangle situation, now maybe she has a view divorced from reality but she seems more credible to me than say, Walt for example. ---
**Author:** ![Bumbershoot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bumbershoot/32/3428_2.png) [@Bumbershoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bumbershoot)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/279 "2013-09-23T23:57:07Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > …I just don’t see Walt going the shootout route, and it makes me think the M60 is going to be used in a way we don’t expect. I expect if Walt really has some desire to wipe Jack and his crew off the face of the Earth then he’s going to use chemistry or science to do so… Walt very well may use the M60 in a way we don’t expect, and it would be cool if he used science to take out Jack and his gang, but he did ask the gun dealer if it came with an instruction manual and the guy replied “I pulled something off the internet”. Then when Walt opened the trunk of the Cadillac the operator’s manual was visible. It’ll be very interesting to see what Walt intends to do with the weapon. I think Jesse is going to wipe out all or part of Jack’s gang, then shoot Todd as he lays wounded on the ground. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/280 "2013-09-24T00:00:30Z")
Walt is dead, there is only Heisenberg. It was foreshadowed in the first episode of this fall season when Walt went to his house and stood staring at the word Heisenberg. When Flynn begged Walt to die he figures that is the one thing he can do for them. I expect there to be a scene with Skylar or the Nazis where they call him Walt and he responds, “My name is Heisenberg!” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429.md?page=15)