# Breaking Bad 5.15 "Granite State" 9/22/13 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 22, 2013, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429 "2013-09-22T09:43:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/301 "2013-09-24T03:02:25Z")
Just watched the episode. Have not had a chance to read through all this thread, but want to post to be Subscribed. Another great episode. I suppose the final one next week will be standard length, but it feels like they could make a longer finale. I loved seeing Robert Forster. Oddly, his Imdb entry does not list that role. Presumably it being a surprise, no one’s had time to enter it yet. But the page does link to an article that refers to him as “The Disappearer.” ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/302 "2013-09-24T03:13:03Z")
Is it possible he’s going to go kill Gretchen and whatsisface? ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/303 "2013-09-24T03:31:39Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > While it seems to me to be fairly clear that there was some ego bruising that went on and that he reacted very badly to, probably related to money and class, causing him to huff off (him?!?) and make a bad ego-driven decision to leave the venture, for the story line it does not matter. Could have been he at least believed they had a thing behind his back (even if they didn’t). Point is that he blames that loss of what he believes was by rights his on others … resentment that he has carried the rest of his life and that finally motivated him to prove himself (stupidly) in some other way once he knew he was dying. And again, as he was ready to give himself up that was the ego kick in the pants he needed. He was nothing other than helping create the name … nothing. > > The nature of the “offense” does not matter. Just that his ego drove his departure and that he has lived with that mistake (blamed on others) repressed all his life until his diagnosis. He begins the show having felt the bullied finally standing up for and proving himself at least to himself. But the reaction catalyzed by his diagnosis proceeds … I agree with you about Walt’s ego. But I have a little bit of a different take on it. I mean, it’s been a long time, but do you remember how lifeless he was, before he got his diagnosis? Jr. treated Hank like his real dad. Hank treated Walt like his kid-brother. Skyler gave him a left-handed handjob while reading a magazine. His students disrespected him in the classroom, and then snickered while he washed their cars for them. After his diagnosis, he wasn’t allowed to talk, unless Skyler gave him a pillow. It seems like Walt was given a choice: you can be a badass, or you can be a shmuck, but you can’t be both. ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/304 "2013-09-24T03:33:42Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Is it possible he’s going to go kill Gretchen and whatsisface? I doubt it. Too on the nose. Like an earlier poster suggested, I too think that scene served to underscore that Walter White would turn himself in, but he’s gone. Heisenberg does not go gentle into that good night. ---
**Author:** ![DonnieBarko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e19adc/32.png) [@DonnieBarko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DonnieBarko)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/305 "2013-09-24T04:15:12Z")
Walt draws a parallel from the Gray Matter interview. History is repeating itself for Walt. In his former life, as a brilliant, aspiring chemist, he established the brand, Gray Matter, with the help of a few partners. Of course, given Walt’s sense of self-importance, he convinces himself that he was the sine qua non of the operation. This may very well be true. Later, due to circumstances that he perceives to be the partners’ fault, he feels forced to remove himself from the business. When he leaves, he is left with chump change, a fraction of the true value he was entitled to. Eventually, Walt, and his contribution, is forgotten. While his name is left behind (White and Schwartz = Gray), the brand makes continues to exist even without him; and thrives. So. Where is Walt now? Using his brilliance in chemistry, he establishes the brand, Blue Meth by Heisenberg, with the help of a few partners. Of course, given Walt’s sense of self-importance, he convinces himself that he is the sine qua non of the operation. This may very well be true. Later, due to circumstances that he perceives to be his partners’ (Jesse’s) fault, he feels forced to remove himself from the business (by leaving ABQ). When he leaves, he is left with chump change, a fraction of the true value that he was entitled to. (Now, instead of $5,000.00, it is 11 million that he cannot enjoy). Eventually, Walt, and his contribution, is forgotten. While his name is left behind (Blue Meth by Heisenberg), the brand continues to exist even without him; and perhaps even thrives. The Gray Matter boat has already sailed. Walt is not returning for them. In that interview, Walt learned that the blue meth continues to be in production. His partner(s) are operating without him (the Aryan Brotherhood and Jesse), and the blue meth is everywhere, even Europe. They are doing this even though they have enough money already to not need to do so (just like his former partner in Gray Matter). His partner(s) didn’t put in the effort he put in. They didn’t create Blue Meth by Heisenberg. Walt did. This is all about pride. He does not want to be left in the dust and forgotten in the shadow of a great empire that he feels is rightfully his. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/306 "2013-09-24T04:41:44Z")
> [@LinusK](#): > > It would be perfectly like Walt to leave, without saying what he knew, or to admit what he knew, even twenty or thirty years later. I understand how people find out about affairs on TV. 😛 I just don’t think it would make sense for Gretchen to ask why he left if he left for that reason. I find it hard to fit that version of events into what we know. > [@](#): > > But when Walt says, “something happened… I’m not going to go into detail…for personal reasons,” what else could it be? It might mean he knows his explanation is going to sound lame. ---
**Author:** ![Glazer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a88e57/32.png) [@Glazer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Glazer)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/307 "2013-09-24T04:56:01Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I understand how people find out about affairs on TV. 😛 I just don’t think it would make sense for Gretchen to ask why he left if he left for that reason. I find it hard to fit that version of events into what we know. > > It might mean he knows his explanation is going to sound lame. Gretchen’s Father saw through Walt’s soul and laid his weaknesses bare. Instead of facing up to failings he turned and ran. And kept running and hiding till his diagnosis. Now we see what Gretchen’s Father caught a glimpse of all those years ago. ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/308 "2013-09-24T05:08:33Z")
> [@DonnieBarko](#): > > Walt draws a parallel from the Gray Matter interview. History is repeating itself for Walt. In his former life, as a brilliant, aspiring chemist, he established the brand, Gray Matter, with the help of a few partners. Of course, given Walt’s sense of self-importance, he convinces himself that he was the sine qua non of the operation. This may very well be true. Later, due to circumstances that he perceives to be the partners’ fault, he feels forced to remove himself from the business. When he leaves, he is left with chump change, a fraction of the true value he was entitled to. Eventually, Walt, and his contribution, is forgotten. While his name is left behind (White and Schwartz = Gray), the brand makes continues to exist even without him; and thrives. > > So. Where is Walt now? Using his brilliance in chemistry, he establishes the brand, Blue Meth by Heisenberg, with the help of a few partners. Of course, given Walt’s sense of self-importance, he convinces himself that he is the sine qua non of the operation. This may very well be true. Later, due to circumstances that he perceives to be his partners’ (Jesse’s) fault, he feels forced to remove himself from the business (by leaving ABQ). When he leaves, he is left with chump change, a fraction of the true value that he was entitled to. (Now, instead of $5,000.00, it is 11 million that he cannot enjoy). Eventually, Walt, and his contribution, is forgotten. While his name is left behind (Blue Meth by Heisenberg), the brand continues to exist even without him; and perhaps even thrives. > > The Gray Matter boat has already sailed. Walt is not returning for them. In that interview, Walt learned that the blue meth continues to be in production. His partner(s) are operating without him (the Aryan Brotherhood and Jesse), and the blue meth is everywhere, even Europe. They are doing this even though they have enough money already to not need to do so (just like his former partner in Gray Matter). His partner(s) didn’t put in the effort he put in. They didn’t create Blue Meth by Heisenberg. Walt did. This is all about pride. He does not want to be left in the dust and forgotten in the shadow of a great empire that he feels is rightfully his. BRAV-fucking-O. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/309 "2013-09-24T05:09:31Z")
Anyone else call Ed’s shop? I had to try a couple of times before getting through. [And here’s the Andrew Ross Sorkin column about Gray Matter.](http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2013/09/23/breaking-bad-the-gray-matter-of-charity/?_r=1&) ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/310 "2013-09-24T05:22:32Z")
> [@drastic\_quench](#): > > BRAV-fucking-O. Agreed. ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/311 "2013-09-24T06:23:26Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I understand how people find out about affairs on TV. 😛 I just don’t think it would make sense for Gretchen to ask why he left if he left for that reason. I find it hard to fit that version of events into what we know. > > It might mean he knows his explanation is going to sound lame. When did she ask? ---
**Author:** ![Willcross](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b2d939/32.png) [@Willcross](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Willcross)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/312 "2013-09-24T07:12:05Z")
The nazis had some pretty high end weapons. I remember one guy had a magazine fed shotgun I’m not familiar with, along with some more standard military stuff, also bullet proof vests. So they either buy a lot of weapons, or sell them to other gangs. I wonder if Walt is going to find someone to pose as a seller and sell them a booby trapped/bombed/scienced M60? The manual may not be requested so Walt can operate it, but rather so it will be seen as a “new” gun instead of used? ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/313 "2013-09-24T08:22:28Z")
As for potential _Breaking Bad_ movies, I could see it happening with, say, Jesse carrying on the trade, with Walt present via flashbacks. But I doubt it will happen at all. This sort of talk always surrounds a successful series. Supposedly _Deadwood_ was going to be good for one or two, but it never happened. ---
**Author:** ![Bumbershoot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bumbershoot/32/3428_2.png) [@Bumbershoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bumbershoot)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/314 "2013-09-24T10:20:24Z")
> [@DonnieBarko](#): > > Walt draws a parallel from the Gray Matter interview. History is repeating itself for Walt. In his former life, as a brilliant, aspiring chemist, he established the brand, Gray Matter, with the help of a few partners. Of course, given Walt’s sense of self-importance, he convinces himself that he was the sine qua non of the operation. This may very well be true. Later, due to circumstances that he perceives to be the partners’ fault, he feels forced to remove himself from the business. When he leaves, he is left with chump change, a fraction of the true value he was entitled to. Eventually, Walt, and his contribution, is forgotten. While his name is left behind (White and Schwartz = Gray), the brand makes continues to exist even without him; and thrives. > > So. Where is Walt now? Using his brilliance in chemistry, he establishes the brand, Blue Meth by Heisenberg, with the help of a few partners. Of course, given Walt’s sense of self-importance, he convinces himself that he is the sine qua non of the operation. This may very well be true. Later, due to circumstances that he perceives to be his partners’ (Jesse’s) fault, he feels forced to remove himself from the business (by leaving ABQ). When he leaves, he is left with chump change, a fraction of the true value that he was entitled to. (Now, instead of $5,000.00, it is 11 million that he cannot enjoy). Eventually, Walt, and his contribution, is forgotten. While his name is left behind (Blue Meth by Heisenberg), the brand continues to exist even without him; and perhaps even thrives. > > The Gray Matter boat has already sailed. Walt is not returning for them. In that interview, Walt learned that the blue meth continues to be in production. His partner(s) are operating without him (the Aryan Brotherhood and Jesse), and the blue meth is everywhere, even Europe. They are doing this even though they have enough money already to not need to do so (just like his former partner in Gray Matter). His partner(s) didn’t put in the effort he put in. They didn’t create Blue Meth by Heisenberg. Walt did. This is all about pride. He does not want to be left in the dust and forgotten in the shadow of a great empire that he feels is rightfully his. Excellent analysis. But Walt must be left in the dust; he can’t have that triumphant moment. That would give him a certain legendary anti-hero status (even if only in his own mind) and this show is about the decline and fall of Walter White. He has to know that he accomplished nothing other than ruining many lives, including his family’s. So Walt goes hunting for Jesse and the Nazis. But he won’t be successful. He may initiate the events that lead to their deaths by, say, attacking their compound, but he won’t kill them himself. He will be killed in the effort- probably by Jesse. Jesse, on the other hand, will have a triumphant moment. He has said and done very little in the last several episodes, other than getting his heart ripped out about once a show (and being beaten and enslaved). He did make the confession video for Hank but that accomplished nothing other than providing some laughs for the Nazis. So Jesse will kill Todd and at least some of the Nazis, possibly when Walt attacks the compound. He will then kill Walt before he himself is killed. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/315 "2013-09-24T10:41:34Z")
> [@Bumbershoot](#): > > So Walt goes hunting for Jesse and the Nazis. But he won’t be successful. Yes. Jesse’s attempt to escape showed us the the show isn’t afraid to take traditional action hero tropes, subvert them, and then have it all come back to kick the character and the audience in the teeth. The botched escape and the consequences of that was Jesse’s moment. The M60 could well be Walt’s. He could simply fail horribly in his action hero antics, and get his family killed as a direct or indirect consequence. Remember, the good guys don’t have to win on this show. It may well be that Todd and Lydia are the ones standing at the end. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/316 "2013-09-24T11:09:19Z")
Would I sound horrible if I admitted to laughing during the scene where the AB were mocking Jesse’s recorded confession? Because I’ve always found it funny how people tend to view Jesse as an innocent, he is pretty much Walter White except he feels really awful about it and cries. His murder of Gale was at the time the most cold blooded and senseless of any of the murders on the show. ---
**Author:** ![Bumbershoot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bumbershoot/32/3428_2.png) [@Bumbershoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bumbershoot)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/317 "2013-09-24T11:29:56Z")
> [@grude](#): > > Would I sound horrible if I admitted to laughing during the scene where the AB were mocking Jesse’s recorded confession? Because I’ve always found it funny how people tend to view Jesse as an innocent, he is pretty much Walter White except he feels really awful about it and cries. His murder of Gale was at the time the most cold blooded and senseless of any of the murders on the show. I don’t view Jesse as an innocent. He’s a bad guy too, but he would never have done most of what he did if he hadn’t met up with Walt. That’s no excuse, and Jesse will pay for his actions with his life. But I think he will kill Walt and Todd before he dies. Although Martian Bigfoot may be right; Todd and Lydia may survive and keep Walt’s empire going (a sort of anti-Gray Matter). They could be the Bizarro version of Elliott and Gretchen. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/318 "2013-09-24T11:40:25Z")
> [@grude](#): > > His murder of Gale was at the time the most cold blooded and senseless of any of the murders on the show. It was certainly cold-blooded, but it wasn’t senseless. He did it to save Walt from being killed by Gus. So long as Gale was alive, Walt (and Jesse) were not safe. And the reason for that is Jesse’s insistence on killing the thugs who killed Andrea’s brother. Same with Todd’s murder of Andrea. It was cold-blooded, but it wasn’t senseless. It was very coldly rational—to terrorize Jesse into being compliant. I don’t recall there being an instance in which Todd had killed someone irrationally—for no reason—or for the mere pleasure of killing, which is what you see in serial killers like Ted Bundy. Furthermore, you see Todd resisting murdering Skyler, because he doesn’t see a good reason to do it. He has sympathy for her—he tells Lydia that she’s a good person trying to protect her family. He has shown sympathy towards Walt for Hank’s killing and he made a weird kind of apology to Andrea before killing her. He’s definitely not a normal person. Todd’s a criminal and a murderer—but he’s not someone devoid of empathy or human feelings and he isn’t (so far as it has been shown, anyway) turned on by the act of killing. ---
**Author:** ![Bumbershoot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bumbershoot/32/3428_2.png) [@Bumbershoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bumbershoot)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/319 "2013-09-24T11:42:55Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Just watched the episode. Have not had a chance to read through all this thread, but want to post to be Subscribed. > > Another great episode. I suppose the final one next week will be standard length, but it feels like they could make a longer finale. > > I loved seeing Robert Forster. Oddly, his Imdb entry does not list that role. Presumably it being a surprise, no one’s had time to enter it yet. But the page does link to an article that refers to him as “The Disappearer.” They announced that the Felina finale will also run 75 minutes; I started a thread about it [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=702773). ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/320 "2013-09-24T12:14:07Z")
> [@grude](#): > > Would I sound horrible if I admitted to laughing during the scene where the AB were mocking Jesse’s recorded confession? Because I’ve always found it funny how people tend to view Jesse as an innocent, he is pretty much Walter White except he feels really awful about it and cries. His murder of Gale was at the time the most cold blooded and senseless of any of the murders on the show. Out of curiosity, what does “cold blooded” mean exactly? I’d always thought it referred to the attitude of the person committing the wrong. For a murder to be “cold blooded” it would have to be done without remorse, with not much emotion if any attached to the act at all. But of course that’s not remotely true in the case you’re talking about. So what _does_ “cold blooded” mean? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429.md?page=17)