# Breaking Bad 5.15 "Granite State" 9/22/13 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 22, 2013, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429 "2013-09-22T09:43:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/341 "2013-09-24T15:26:05Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Somewhere along the way there’s discussion of Walt leaving without saying a word or explaining himself - the implication being that she doesn’t know why he left her and the company. Yes, exactly. It went something like “One minute you’re laughing with my brothers and the next you’re in the bedroom packing your bags with no explanation.” ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/342 "2013-09-24T15:33:09Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > It doesn’t matter why he exactly left Grey Matter. The point is that his pride was rearing its ugly head even back then. That’s all that matters. Exactly. The specifics aren’t important and I don’t care if they’re explained. But the context does matter, and that context is Walt’s pride and the bitterness he still feels. People who say the Schwartzes wronged Walt or that Gretchen must’ve cheated on him are missing the point here. ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/343 "2013-09-24T15:38:58Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > It doesn’t matter why he exactly left Grey Matter. The point is that his pride was rearing its ugly head even back then. That’s all that matters. There probably won’t even be a mention of Grey Matter in the finale. I predict Gray Matter will [play more than a bit part](http://insidetv.ew.com/2013/09/23/breaking-bad-granite-state-writer/) in the finale. ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/344 "2013-09-24T15:44:27Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Somewhere along the way there’s discussion of Walt leaving without saying a word or explaining himself - the implication being that she doesn’t know why he left her and the company. Yeah, she says something like, “We were on vacation, with my family, and you were upstairs packing your things and barely talking.” He doesn’t deny her version of events - instead he goes on a rant about how she and Elliot stole his ideas. It’s funny, looking at the scene again, I feel - relatively - less sympathetic toward Walt and more toward Gretchen, than I remembered from the first time around. ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/345 "2013-09-24T15:58:18Z")
> [@Duke\_of\_Rat](#): > > I predict Gray Matter will [play more than a bit part](http://insidetv.ew.com/2013/09/23/breaking-bad-granite-state-writer/) in the finale. Well it seems like it will be according to that interview, but I really don’t see why it’s necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/346 "2013-09-24T16:10:20Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > Well it seems like it will be according to that interview, but I really don’t see why it’s necessary. I don’t think it’s necessary either, but at the end of Granite State I had a suspicion that he’s going after Gretchen and Whatsisface, either in addition to Jack et al (probably) or _instead_ of them (much less probably). I was convinced above that this is probably wrong–but now that we know there’s more story to tell there, I am holding onto the suspicion for a little while. But it could just be that there’s a further flashback or something. ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/347 "2013-09-24T16:12:46Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > I don’t think it’s necessary either, but at the end of Granite State I had a suspicion that he’s going after Gretchen and Whatsisface, either in addition to Jack et al (probably) or _instead_ of them (much less probably). > > I was convinced above that this is probably wrong–but now that we know there’s more story to tell there, I am holding onto the suspicion for a little while. But it could just be that there’s a further flashback or something. I can’t imagine he would go after them. I think we are all looking too much into this scene in the bar. I think he basically is just using them for the motivation to be Heinsenberg one last time and go take back his “life’s work.” ---
**Author:** ![Dogzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@Dogzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogzilla)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/348 "2013-09-24T16:21:58Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > I’m inclined to look at the Gray Matter clip as a plot device that got Hank’s attention, reignited his pride, and got him coming back for the ending we need. I don’t expect them to be a central factor in the last episode - interesting if they are and it works. > > The main folks for resolution would be Walt, Walt’s family and Jesse, with Lydia and the Nazi guys after that… I agree; I don’t think GM has anything to do with the finale except for the motivation. Because right in the same TV “show,” we see two things: 1. A reminder that the Gray Matter people screwed Walt out of his due GLORY, and 2. The fact that the blue meth is out there. Again. Which means that Jesse is screwing Walt out of his due GLORY. The meth cooking has been a salve for Walt’s delicate, fragile ego. He could sit there at the bar and watch it all go down again: other people make a blue fortune (pun intended) off Heisenberg’s formula and technique. Which Walt pioneered. Before he got shoved out of the business… sound familiar? THAT’s what triggered Walt. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/349 "2013-09-24T16:22:05Z")
I am not sure it is exactly Walt’s pride, so much as his legacy. Walt feels his own mortality pretty intensely. His legacy is the money he can leave for his family and the purest meth. The denial of his contribution to Gray Matter erodes what was once probably in his mind something worthwhile. So he is going to die and what is left, what mark has he made. He is constantly complaining that folks don’t understand, he us desperate for them to understand his “sacrifice”. He wants to make sure when he is gone his legacy is properly understood. I suppose that is pride, but it is more a need for meaning in s life that is about to end. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/350 "2013-09-24T16:33:56Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Of course if he takes out Lydia and the Nazis (or is the catalyst for such to occur) think about what his legacy really has been - Gus’s huge drug distribution system, gone. The Mexican drug cartel kneecapped and not bringing into the SouthWest and no extant major suppliers or distribution system left. Sure a few innocents killed on the way but probably a lower bystander body count than the authorities would have had attempting to get similar results. Walt didn’t take out the cartel. He was the reason for the final showdown but I think that was coming anyway. And everything that was wiped out gets replaced eventually. The blue meth has come and gone a few times, but Albuquerque had a meth problem the whole time. There’s just no way a market for drugs goes unfilled over the long term and there’s a good chance that what comes next will be worse. Walt killed off the competition because he was more reckless, so it stands to reason that that’s what will replace him. Plenty of people died in the meantime even if you treat it as a given that some of them would have been killed anyway. > [@LinusK](#): > > It’s funny, looking at the scene again, I feel - relatively - less sympathetic toward Walt and more toward Gretchen, than I remembered from the first time around. He’s an asshole in that scene. She offers to pay for his treatment (again), which is supposedly his reason for cooking meth, and he says no. She asks why he’s involving them in his lies - something that becomes a habit for him - and he says she has no right to ask. He says they stole his ideas and money and belittles her. That’s after we’ve seen Elliott praise Walt and offer him a job so his treatment can be paid for. It’s an early example of just how angry and entitled Walt really is, and I’m not sure how that scene can be interpreted in a way that’s favorable to Walt. ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/351 "2013-09-24T16:37:38Z")
Kudos to Munch for seeing this coming back 7 episodes ago… > [@Breaking Bad 5.09 "Blood Money" 8/11/2013](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-09-blood-money-8-11-2013/665973/50): > > Any chance Grey Matter gets dragged back into the picture? I highly highly doubt Todd decides not to kill Skyler because of any soft spot for a mother and her kid. He shot the kid on the bike with nary a second thought, and has no qualms about popping Andrea - a young single mother - later in the episode. No, the reason he doesn’t is primarily because he still respects Skyler’s husband. I think he even says as much to Skyler. I suppose another reason could be that why give Walt a good reason to really come after them? When Walt agreed to have Jesse turned over to the AB, the stated purpose (by Todd) was for some ‘hard questioning’ about what Jesse told the DEA before offing him. Walt is probably smart enough to know they’ll get Jesse to cook for them a few times to help Todd get up to speed especially since that was the original deal (One cook for killing Jesse). But that was at least \*two months \*or so ago, right? So I don’t see how Walt can think that Jesse is still alive; surely Walt would assume Jesse is dead, and Todd just got better at cooking. (Actually Todd must be a really slow learner if they still have Jesse around). For that matter - why do they still need him around? Why go through the bother and risk of shooting someone outside, on her porch. I can almost kinda see leaving Skyler alive, I don’t quite buy that Jesse is still alive (although I’m glad he is; I’ve always said the final showdown would be Jesse and Walt). I don’t quite get why Walt would now be upset at Blue Sky being on the market - the agreement with AB for killing Jesse was specifically to help Todd cook to recreate Blue Sky. He cooked with Todd in the past, he knows Todd and Lydia etc. are still in business - it shouldn’t be a surprise at all that Blue Sky is still around; hell it’s been around ever since Walt ‘retired’. The money doesn’t matter any more; his son won’t take it, Skyler can’t take it; he can’t even use / get rid of the $11 million he has, let alone another $70 million. The ‘meth empire’ really shouldn’t mean anything any more; he retired. But I guess the Gray Matter blurb on the TV (‘he only contributed to the company name’) stings his pride enough to push him back to ABQ. Seems like rather weak tea if they are a major plot point; Gretchen and Elliot haven’t been involved in the plot in like forever. Would the show throw them up as a critical plot point in the last episode, out of the blue? Seems unlikely. But I suppose we’ll get the obligatory flash back to the 4th of July weekend when Walt walked out. BTW - I can’t be the only one to think that ‘Gretchen’ has not aged well; she looked old and frumpy on that TV interview. I guess the one plausible scenario is Walt convincing them to help funnel money to Skyler and the kids in return for…(not publicizing his involvement with the company’s founding? I don’t know). Finally - damn, you have to feel sorry for Jesse - His parents disown him, the two women he cares about die, including one shot right in front of him, his mentor first agrees to shooting him, then to having him be tortured first, then shot, even Skyler pretty much tells Walt to just kill him, he gets the snot beaten out of him at least three times, and now he’s spent the last two months or so as The Gimp as a slave in a meth lab. He’s an emotional wreck. At this point wouldn’t death be sweet, sweet release? ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/352 "2013-09-24T16:45:34Z")
Could the ricin be used in some way to take down Gray Matter as a company, without killing Gretchen and Elliot? I’m not clear on what kind of company they are (research?) but could he somehow use the ricin to create a giant PR problem for GM? ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/353 "2013-09-24T16:47:29Z")
Walt needs to go after the person who started him on his fateful path- the student who taunted him as he was working at the car wash. ---
**Author:** ![DonnieBarko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e19adc/32.png) [@DonnieBarko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DonnieBarko)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/354 "2013-09-24T16:49:18Z")
As bad as we might feel for Jesse, especially in light of what happened to Brock’s mother, let’s also remember that he made a deliberate choice to try to escape, knowing full well that it would put her in grave danger. Todd did not give Jesse that photograph as a gift. It was an acute reminder that they could harm Brock and his mother at any time; that they were watching her. It was a threat, in the event that Jesse did not cooperate. When it occurred to Jesse that he could Macgyver the paper clip to escape his chains, he had both the photograph and the paper clip in his hands. He discarded the photograph in favor of the paper clip. He affirmatively chose the chance for freedom over Brock and his mother. He had to have been fully aware of the repercussions of his actions, whether his escape ended up being successful or not. By attempting to escape under those circumstances, with a photograph of Brock and his mother right in front of him, knowing full well what that photo represented, Jesse might as well have pulled the trigger himself. ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/355 "2013-09-24T16:56:34Z")
> [@Crawlspace](#): > > The [script](http://www.quotefully.com/tvshow/Breaking+Bad/Gretchen) from the scene involved. It’s clear she still doesn’t understand why Walt abandoned them. I don’t think it’s clear. I’d say she has her version of events, and that Walt has a different version. Gretchen: You left. Walt: You are always the picture of innocence. Why “innocence”? Isn’t that Walt’s way of saying, “Not only did you betray me then, now you’re going to pretend it never even happened?” I mean, “innocent” is the opposite of “guilty”. So what’s she guilty of? Then there’s: _What would you know about me, Gretchen? What would your presumption about me be exactly? That I should go begging for your charity, and you waving your checkbook around like some magic wand is going to make me forget how you and Elliott - how you and Elliott - cut me out?_ He was going to say something else - “how you and Elliot \_\_\_\_\_\_\_.” What was he going to say? > [@](#): > > My own hypothetical: Walt and Gretchen were likely an item. Gretchen’s father gave the trio their seed money. On the fourth of July weekend Walt spends some time alone with Gretchen’s who father brings up Elliot a few times in conversation. When pressed he tells Walt that he invested in the group for two reasons: 1. Walt was dating his little girl and he wanted to make sure she was taken care of (said in a tone that implies he didn’t think Walt would be able to do it himself). 2. Gretchen’s pitch emphasized the brilliance of Elliot Schwartz. Both of those revelations would be unforgivable to Walt, more-so than a love triangle IMHO. It seems like Walt’s mostly just angry at Gretchen. There’s nothing in there about her dad. I mean, Walt is really really angry at her - more so than than “something your dad said” kind of angry. ---
**Author:** ![DonnieBarko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e19adc/32.png) [@DonnieBarko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DonnieBarko)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/356 "2013-09-24T16:57:07Z")
I would also add that there is a certain symbolism in the fact that a paperclip was the means for Jesse’s escape. What does a paperclip do? It holds things together. What was it holding together in that instance? Two different things: 1. It was holding Brock and his mother together. 2. It was holding Jesse to his captivity. By removing the paper clip, Jesse removed what was holding these things together, with predictable results. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/357 "2013-09-24T17:11:47Z")
I don’t buy the reasoning that Walt knows Jesse is alive because he hears about blue meth. The meth was always blue except for that one time Todd overcooked it. But it’s possible he realizes that Jesse is alive because Charlie Rose speculates that Heisenberg is still active. It’s strange because if he builds something that endures after he dies, he has arguably accomplished _more_, not less, than if he has created something that dies with him. An empire is supposed to endure. But now I think he might have decided that he has to destroy his empire to prove that it couldn’t exist without him. If so, his self-absorption really knows no limits. > [@DonnieBarko](#): > > As bad as we might feel for Jesse, especially in light of what happened to Brock’s mother, let’s also remember that he made a deliberate choice to try to escape, knowing full well that it would put her in grave danger. He could have attempted to save them. I was saying in the last episode that he could have set up a new life for them through Ed, although by the time he escaped that would’ve been impossible. > [@LinusK](#): > > I don’t think it’s clear. It is. There’s never any hint that she understands why Walt is so angry or why he feels the way he does. > [@](#): > > Why “innocence”? Because Walt thinks she’s guilty. You’re giving Walt too much credit here. We know (partly because of this conversation) that he always thinks everybody owes him whatever he wants. Throughout the show people keep committing the crime of not understanding the brilliance of Walter White, who makes things happen “because I said so.” ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/358 "2013-09-24T17:17:56Z")
> [@DonnieBarko](#): > > As bad as we might feel for Jesse, especially in light of what happened to Brock’s mother, let’s also remember that he made a deliberate choice to try to escape, knowing full well that it would put her in grave danger. > > Todd did not give Jesse that photograph as a gift. It was an acute reminder that they could harm Brock and his mother at any time; that they were watching her. It was a threat, in the event that Jesse did not cooperate. > > When it occurred to Jesse that he could Macgyver the paper clip to escape his chains, he had both the photograph and the paper clip in his hands. He discarded the photograph in favor of the paper clip. He affirmatively chose the chance for freedom over Brock and his mother. He had to have been fully aware of the repercussions of his actions, whether his escape ended up being successful or not. > > By attempting to escape under those circumstances, with a photograph of Brock and his mother right in front of him, knowing full well what that photo represented, Jesse might as well have pulled the trigger himself. He believed his chances were good, and of course the first thing he’d do would be to get Andrea and Brock away. Probably not a good plan–the bad guys have cars–but it’s hardly a “he may as well have pulled the trigger” situation. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/359 "2013-09-24T17:24:35Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > I’m praying that in the upcoming Saul spin-off series, he’s working as the manager of a Cinnabon in Omaha. > [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > [Cinnabon is ready for him](https://twitter.com/Cinnabon/status/381961955742732288). Inspired by the comments at that link: they could call the spin-off “Baking Bad.” ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/360 "2013-09-24T17:39:31Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > It doesn’t matter why he exactly left Grey Matter. The point is that his pride was rearing its ugly head even back then. That’s all that matters. There probably won’t even be a mention of Grey Matter in the finale. Maybe. Or maybe he’s touchy about his pride, because it was deeply wounded when he was younger. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429.md?page=19)