# Breaking Bad 5.15 "Granite State" 9/22/13 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 22, 2013, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429 "2013-09-22T09:43:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/381 "2013-09-24T23:51:24Z")
> [@Kevbo](#): > > Walter frames Elliot and Gretchen for the murder of the AB. > Stress causes Skyler to have a stroke, and she lives out her days listening to Marie’s mindless chatter. On the upside, Marie’s klepto has gone into overdrive without Hank around and she’s stolen back the $70 million from the Nazis. ---
**Author:** ![Crawlspace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Crawlspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crawlspace)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/382 "2013-09-25T01:24:52Z")
> [@LinusK](#): > > Gretchen: You left. > Walt: You are always the picture of innocence. > > Why “innocence”? Isn’t that Walt’s way of saying, “Not only did you betray me then, now you’re going to pretend it never even happened?” I mean, “innocent” is the opposite of “guilty”. So what’s she guilty of? In Walt’s mind she’s guilty of cutting him out > [@LinusK](#): > > Then there’s: _What would you know about me, Gretchen? What would your presumption about me be exactly? That I should go begging for your charity, and you waving your checkbook around like some magic wand is going to make me forget how you and Elliott - how you and Elliott - cut me out?_ > > He was going to say something else - “how you and Elliot \_\_\_\_\_\_\_.” What was he going to say? Nothing. I think you’re grasping at straws here. There’s no thoughtful pause. There’s not even a beat between the repetition. It’s clearly repeated for emphasis with the second iteration of “you” and “Elliott” said through gnashed teeth in a whispered shout. > [@LinusK](#): > > It seems like Walt’s mostly just angry at Gretchen. There’s nothing in there about her dad. I mean, Walt is really really angry at her - more so than than “something your dad said” kind of angry. They were on vacation with her father. And my hypothetical was that Walt was angry at Gretchen because of the way she talked about him behind his back, something he’d have found out (hypothetically) from her father. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/383 "2013-09-25T02:45:03Z")
> [@don\_t\_ask](#): > > No my objection to the scene in the bar is that, because of the flash forwards to start both the whole of the series and the second half of the series, we know that Walt is not arrested even when he leaves the phone off the hook so he can be traced. To then show his motivation for changing his mind to be nothing other than a fluke strikes me as terrible writing. The barman has to change channels or the next episode can’t happen even though we already know it will. > > I didn’t like the handling of any of the dramatic events in this episode. I could have bought that Walt had internet at the cabin with a satellite dish, or more remotely had a smartphone and the bar had free wi-fi, and while keeping tabs on the developments in Albuquerque, found the Gray Matter interview. You’re right that the clichéd contrivance of flipping through TV channels at just the right time is annoying. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/384 "2013-09-25T03:45:49Z")
How do the police/DEA even know about Walt’s activities? What evidence do they really have? Just what Marie and Skyler have told them? They have no evidence but have seized the White house, even though Saul doubted they would be able to? They have evidence Walt kidnapped Holly, and the recorded confession Walt left is very vague, he could have been ranting about anything including the car wash. They have no physical evidence, no money, no meth, no guns, no blood etc. ---
**Author:** ![Washoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecae2f/32.png) [@Washoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Washoe)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/385 "2013-09-25T04:02:24Z")
My guess is that if two DEA agents were _not_ missing, then Walt would not be the subject of a nationwide manhunt. The authorities would be looking into it, of course, but not at that level of intensity. Even if they capture Walt right now, I don’t see that there’s much they could hold him on. Saul could probably have him out in a flash. I’m trying to figure out a way the cops could possibly locate and raid the Nazis’ compound, but I’m drawing a blank. At this point, they don’t even know the Nazis are involved. The only scenario that I can possibly think of is that they capture Lydia and squeeze her for all of about 12 seconds before she crumbles and spills the beans. ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/386 "2013-09-25T04:27:42Z")
> [@Duke\_of\_Rat](#): > > The sneak preview had Tuco, Gale, Jane, Hank, and Gus all sitting on a pew in a strange, interdenominational church, FWIW. Reminds me of the movie Places In the Heart, where at the end we see some of the killed characters taking communion with the living. ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/387 "2013-09-25T04:46:08Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > To me there’s a big difference between: > (1) > Walt and Elliot start a company, it has some good ideas, but is not really going anywhere. It’s worth $10,000 or so, Elliot buys out Walt’s share for $5000. Later, Elliot and Gretchen do a whole bunch of work and come up with new ideas and products and with these new ideas and products it becomes awesome > > and > > (2) > Walt and Elliot start a company which has some key piece of technology, or key idea, that Walt was instrumental in developing or inventing. It is clearvi that this piece of technology has the potential to be huge. However, they have a falling out and Walt sells out for $5000. Later on the company, still basically selling stuff based on that idea that was half Walt’s, becomes huge. > Legally thossse are more or less the same situation (assuming an ironclad contract when Walt sold out), but I think they are very different as far as how likely G+E are to feel guilty about the situation, feel they took advantage of Walt, etc.e Yes, there’s more to GMs relationship with Walt than going on Charlie Rose to distance themselves from Heisenburg, so just as Walt tried to keep Hank quiet by making that video tape, he just might be more successful in somehow blackmailing the Scwartzes, because there’s something about these two that don’t seem as honorable as Hank. Whatever the falling out was about, it seems to me Walt can twist it just enough to make the shareholders @GM nervous because any association with a chemical drug kingpin will drop the stock like a stone. All he has to do is turn what they said on Charlie Rose on it’s ear. Walt may be clever enough to retrieve legitimate gains for his family, so they never have to live in fear of the consequences of breaking bad. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/388 "2013-09-25T05:12:54Z")
> [@grude](#): > > They have evidence Walt kidnapped Holly … I don’t think you can even call that a kidnapping. He took his own child at a time when he and Skyler were not even separated. Or divorced. And thus there was no court order giving custody to the mother, no court order for him to stay away from Holly. IANAL, but it seems to me that legally, he had every right to take her. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/389 "2013-09-25T06:47:59Z")
_Gray Matter?!?_ **WTF** > [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > I just couldn’t be less interested in what happens to Gray Matter. There is no Gray Matter storyline to resolve. > [@Simplicio](#): > > I doubt Grey Matter will play into the final. The writers purposely kept whatever happened there ambiguous for the shows entire run, they aren’t going to try and cram it into the last hour along with everything else. > [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > I don’t really see how there is any big, important “reveal” about GM. > > If people actually followed the few times they’ve delved into GM I think all you need to know is there: > […] > This is all pretty easily concluded from what we know about GM, and I don’t know that much is enhanced by filling in what are only minor details about Walt’s backstory. > [@LinusK](#): > > I don’t think so… I think the Grey Matter couple is beyond his reach, and they haven’t invested enough in them to make them part of the main story line. They’ve always been backstory, or (like with this episode) something to move the plot along. > [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > It doesn’t matter why he exactly left Grey Matter. The point is that his pride was rearing its ugly head even back then. That’s all that matters. There probably won’t even be a mention of Grey Matter in the finale. > [@Duke\_of\_Rat](#): > > I predict Gray Matter will [play more than a bit part](http://insidetv.ew.com/2013/09/23/breaking-bad-granite-state-writer/) in the finale. > [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > Well it seems like it will be according to that interview, but I really don’t see why it’s necessary. I agree with all of this (except the part about its not playing a part in the finale, since it clearly will). There are a lot of us feeling baffled by this being thrown into the mix so late in the game. There was for a long time a vocal minority of fans clamouring for this “burning mystery” to be revisited, but I always saw it as just something that provided a backstory and was also perhaps something they early on planned to be delved into further but dropped when they found they had more than enough on their plates. In any event, by the time we got to only two episodes left and it hadn’t been revisited (or, really, barely more than one since it was at the end of the penultimate ep), I was positive they wouldn’t go back into it without having laid any groundwork. Then, seemingly randomly, they did. So I was with everyone who scratched their heads. Then I read [this](http://laist.com/2013/09/24/how_dying_teen_influenced_breaking.php), and it became clear. No need to try to make sense of it in any conventional way: turns out they went back to “resolve” the Gray Matter storyline at the last moment simply to honour the wishes of a dying boy, playing “Make-a-Wish” Foundation on a grand scale: > [@](#): > > [Gilligan asked Kevin], “‘Is there something you feel is missing from the show?’ He said, ‘You know what, I want to know more about Gretchen and Elliott. I want to know more about Walt’s backstory with them. I want to know what happened.’” > Gilligan added: “The very fact that Kevin mentioned Gretchen and Elliott led us—the writers and I—to reintroduce them, reincorporate them into the story.” At the risk of sounding heartless, I’m more than a tad annoyed by this. I don’t think a TV show that millions of avid fans love, and which is widely regarded as a great work of art, should leave its plotting to a random teenager, no matter what a great kid he was and how sad his passing. (Not to mention that, ironically, the kid who wanted to know never found out the information he wanted, anyway.) It’s too important! Does that make me a bad person, to be dismayed by this? > [@Erdosain](#): > > Honestly, I’m a little disappointed they dredged up the Gray Matter bullshit again. I mean, Walt’s life has been completely fucked six times from Tuesday and THAT is what gets him going again? A fucking slight from 30 years ago?[…] > I really hope Walt isn’t going back to ABQ to shoot up the Gray Matter rehab clinic opening. That might go down in history with the Seinfeld finale. I think it would be worse than that, sadly. Seinfeld had already tailed off significantly in quality before that point. This would be an incredibly epic nosedive after the brilliance we saw just ten days ago (“Ozymandias”, obv.). Someone on Sepinwall’s blog put it well, \*before \*this episode, when they were scoffing at a prediction that Gray Matter would come back into play. Something like (paraphrasing from memory) “if that happens, it will be the all time case of a show jumping the shark just when it is about to stick the landing”. FFS. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/390 "2013-09-25T09:55:36Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > Well, his plan was to escape in the middle of the night so no one would notice until morning… so if it had worked he would have had plenty of time to do whatever he was going to do next (which might well have been to turn himself into the cops immediately, tell them about the nazis, and tell them to for the love of god protect Andrea and Brock). But the moment that he was captured that plan vaporized. So how did he protect Andrea and Brock, whose photo he has been staring at while held captive? Did he, for the love of anything, suck it up and say, “You got me.” No. He taunts the “dead eyed piece of shit” who shot a kid, “Boom, like it was nothing,” and his family by threatening to never cook again. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/391 "2013-09-25T11:49:27Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > I doubt the reason Walt left Grey Matter is super interesting. It’s probably that he got scared, felt he needed a more stable job. He probably thought he’d have other great opportunities, etc. > > The plot that I most want to see revolved is Jesse’s. As dark as this show is, I can’t imagine they will leave Jesse in the hell he is in now. I do want to see Jesse’s plot resolved very badly. But I can _also_ see a good story being told which involves Walt revisiting the Grey Matter thing. In such a case, though, it _should_ turn out that the “slight” which set him off years ago was truly minor, absolutely not worth thinking about much less obsessing about. It should expose Walt for the hollow shell of a man he’s become, the seed of which was there all along. I could take or leave a Grey Matter resolution but I don’t think it’s necessarily a bad thing at all. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/392 "2013-09-25T11:50:28Z")
> [@don\_t\_ask](#): > > No. He taunts the “dead eyed piece of shit” who shot a kid, “Boom, like it was nothing,” and his family by threatening to never cook again. Yeah, that was odd I agree. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/393 "2013-09-25T12:57:41Z")
> [@don\_t\_ask](#): > > But the moment that he was captured that plan vaporized. So how did he protect Andrea and Brock, whose photo he has been staring at while held captive? Did he, for the love of anything, suck it up and say, “You got me.” > > No. He taunts the “dead eyed piece of shit” who shot a kid, “Boom, like it was nothing,” and his family by threatening to never cook again. The impression I got was that Jesse had hit rock bottom at that moment. He had completely given up on everything and just wanted to die. I think that, at the moment, he wasn’t thinking of anyone else at all. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/394 "2013-09-25T13:56:31Z")
Yeah, I think that expecting a person that’s been imprisoned and tortured to think everything through at all times is a little much. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/395 "2013-09-25T13:56:40Z")
> [@Washoe](#): > > I’m trying to figure out a way the cops could possibly locate and raid the Nazis’ compound, but I’m drawing a blank. At this point, they don’t even know the Nazis are involved. They know Walt has a link to the Aryan Brotherhood, but I don’t think they would know the AB is running his business now. > [@Andiethewestie](#): > > Whatever the falling out was about, it seems to me Walt can twist it just enough to make the shareholders @GM nervous because any association with a chemical drug kingpin will drop the stock like a stone. All he has to do is turn what they said on Charlie Rose on it’s ear. Walt may be clever enough to retrieve legitimate gains for his family, so they never have to live in fear of the consequences of breaking bad. This is blackmail. You can’t have “legitimate gains” from blackmail. It’s just as illegal as making drugs. > [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > I don’t think you can even call that a kidnapping. He took his own child at a time when he and Skyler were not even separated. Or divorced. And thus there was no court order giving custody to the mother, no court order for him to stay away from Holly. IANAL, but it seems to me that legally, he had every right to take her. It was a kidnapping. There was an Amber Alert. > [@SlackerInc](#): > > At the risk of sounding heartless Hoo boy. > [@](#): > > I don’t think a TV show that millions of avid fans love, and which is widely regarded as a great work of art, should leave its plotting to a random teenager, no matter what a great kid he was and how sad his passing. (Not to mention that, ironically, the kid who wanted to know never found out the information he wanted, anyway.) It’s too important! Does that make me a bad person, to be dismayed by this? The show isn’t that important, and it doesn’t make you a bad person - but I do think you’ve jumped to some conclusions. The kid says that was something he was curious about and it led them to reintroduce that element. They used something he suggested. They didn’t make him showrunner and they didn’t remake the entire series to suit him. They didn’t even meet him until after the first half of this season had aired, so at least the broad outlines of these last eight episodes were probably done already. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/396 "2013-09-25T14:03:09Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > IANAL, but it seems to me that legally, he had every right to take her. “My husband has taken off with our daughter” is one thing. “My husband, just who just threatened our family with a knife, has most likely just committed a couple of murders, and is also a meth kingpin, has taken off with our daughter” is another. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/397 "2013-09-25T14:28:44Z")
_Many_ of the real-life Amber Alerts I’ve heard are abductions by estranged family members. And I’ve noticed that many times, the kid pictured on the side of the milk carton has the same last name as the named abductor. In other words, in many of those cases, it’s also a family member doing the abducting. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/398 "2013-09-25T14:40:18Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > _Many_ of the real-life Amber Alerts I’ve heard are abductions by estranged family members. And I’ve noticed that many times, the kid pictured on the side of the milk carton has the same last name as the named abductor. In other words, in many of those cases, it’s also a family member doing the abducting. I’d imagine many of those times it was non-custodial parent who abducted the child. ---
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/399 "2013-09-25T14:52:08Z")
I don’t get fans that want to discuss all the legal minutiae of every little thing that happens on this show. Do you really think that’s what the plot is going to hinge on? That the final scene of the final episode will be Walt driving off into the sunset with his barrels after a mistrial because Hank did not read him his miranda rights off a fucking card? Or because him taking Holly was not _technically_ kidnapping, so he gets a get-out-of-jail free card? That’s not what this show is about, and yet you see people on the boards thinking they know how it’s going to end because they figured out that Hank’s evidence is not admissible in court. ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/400 "2013-09-25T15:09:51Z")
> [@Svejk\_1](#): > > I don’t get fans that want to discuss all the legal minutiae of every little thing that happens on this show. Do you really think that’s what the plot is going to hinge on? That the final scene of the final episode will be Walt driving off into the sunset with his barrels after a mistrial because Hank did not read him his miranda rights off a fucking card? Or because him taking Holly was not _technically_ kidnapping, so he gets a get-out-of-jail free card? That’s not what this show is about, and yet you see people on the boards thinking they know how it’s going to end because they figured out that Hank’s evidence is not admissible in court. I agree with you to a point. But the creators and writers have made such an effort to leave no stone unturned that they sorted of invited fans to discuss the minutiae. Also, partially it’s discussed for something to do while we wait for the finale. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429.md?page=21)