# Breaking Bad 5.15 "Granite State" 9/22/13 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 22, 2013, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429 "2013-09-22T09:43:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 27
**Author:** ![interface2x](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c0e974/32.png) [@interface2x](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/interface2x)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/521 "2013-09-27T13:25:28Z")
> [@Krazy-8](#): > > Also, maybe Mr. Lambert’s DL doesn’t use Walt’s b-day. It did get him a free breakfast at Dennys at least. Is it really free if you don’t eat any of it and leave a $100 tip? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/522 "2013-09-27T14:57:24Z")
> [@Martian Bigfoot](#): > > The name “Holly” is traditionally given to babies born around Christmas. I have not observed any such pattern. And even if there were such a tendency, it would be a fallacy to assume it and use it as a basis for other conclusions. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/523 "2013-09-27T15:10:20Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I have not observed any such pattern. And even if there were such a tendency, it would be a fallacy to assume it and use it as a basis for other conclusions. Well, it says so on [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holly_%28name%29). And [Nameberry](http://nameberry.com/babyname/Holly). ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/524 "2013-09-27T16:03:27Z")
Holly is also another poisonous berry. And also Buddy Holly once had a song called “Peggy Sue” so maybe we’ll see a character in the finale named Peggy Sue. ---
**Author:** ![Krazy-8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Krazy-8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Krazy-8)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/525 "2013-09-27T16:34:14Z")
> [@interface2x](#): > > Is it really free if you don’t eat any of it and leave a $100 tip? 😉 Free is always good, even if you are rich. ---
**Author:** ![Scupper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Scupper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scupper)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/526 "2013-09-27T16:41:37Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > Holly is also another poisonous berry. And also Buddy Holly once had a song called “Peggy Sue” so maybe we’ll see a character in the finale named Peggy Sue. And she’ll be poisoned with ricin! It’s genius! ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/527 "2013-09-27T16:42:57Z")
That Denny’s scene was clearly a reference to the dilemma proposed in the episode title: Eat Free or Diet ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/528 "2013-09-27T19:28:12Z")
> [@Martian Bigfoot](#): > > Well, it says so on [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holly_%28name%29). And [Nameberry](http://nameberry.com/babyname/Holly). I’ll first note that neither of those presents any actual proof that the name “Holly” is correlated with a birthday near Christmastime. And I’ll then note that this doesn’t contradict anything I said. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/529 "2013-09-27T20:06:25Z")
So just what is Lydia’s motivation?! This is one of the most mysterious things to me, back when she was first introduced there was speculation she was Gus’s daughter or lover but that went nowhere. It can’t be providing a good life for her daughter, she obviously has a well paid legit career. Is it just to like Walt gather a storage unit full of cash? ---
**Author:** ![LawMonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@LawMonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LawMonkey)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/530 "2013-09-27T20:18:26Z")
Gotta pay for all that stevia somehow. Anyway, while she has a well-paying job, maybe it’s not well-paying enough to sustain her in the manner to which she has become accustomed. I doubt we’re going to get much more background on her at this point. ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/531 "2013-09-27T20:18:28Z")
Why is that even a question? She wants money. When has “having money” ever stopped anyone from “wanting money”? Not to mention that maybe one of the reasons her daughter is so well cared for is because of the extra drug money. Perhaps her career pays upper middle-class well, but she’s aiming for Scrooge McDuck levels. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/532 "2013-09-27T20:22:26Z")
Why does it have to be anything other than making money? I think everything is business to Lydia. She was good at her job and she doesn’t really care if what she’s doing is legal and involves shipping or whatever or if it’s illegal and involves drugs and murder. If I had to make up a backstory I would say she had a legitimate job at Madrigal when Herr Schuler made her the point person for Madrigal’s part of the crystal meth operation. We don’t know if she has anything to do with the company anymore since things probably got hot after Schuler died, but she still has her Czech connections, whatever they are. ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/533 "2013-09-27T20:22:47Z")
An article in Slate contends that everything “Breaking Bad” has done “The Shield” did first. They have some good points. But I think Walter has had more development and shading as a character than the lead character in The Shield did. Just throwing that out there. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/534 "2013-09-27T20:23:14Z")
Well obviously in criminal enterprise there is a risk balance, we have seen Walt struggle with that. Lydia is a single parent even, if she gets whacked or put away her daughter is in even shittier shape. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/535 "2013-09-27T20:27:46Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Why does it have to be anything other than making money? I think everything is business to Lydia. She was good at her job and she doesn’t really care if what she’s doing is legal and involves shipping or whatever or if it’s illegal and involves drugs and murder. If I had to make up a backstory I would say she had a legitimate job at Madrigal when Herr Schuler made her the point person for Madrigal’s part of the crystal meth operation. We don’t know if she has anything to do with the company anymore since things probably got hot after Schuler died, but she still has her Czech connections, whatever they are. Isn’t working at Madrigal part of her smuggling operation to her Czech connection? Well for one thing how does she hope to use or launder hundreds of millions of USD? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/536 "2013-09-27T20:36:58Z")
Lydia’s solution to every type of risk involves killing people. She doesn’t do half-measures, I guess, but I know Mike never thought that was an effective way to handle things because it can attract police attention. So I see her as risk-averse in that sense. > [@grude](#): > > Isn’t working at Madrigal part of her smuggling operation to her Czech connection? That would make sense; you may be right about that. They’ve never really specified how all this stuff works, although I see Lydia’s job at Madrigal involves logistics. So yes, maybe she is still there and she plays a role in getting the meth to the Czech Republic. > [@](#): > > Well for one thing how does she hope to use or launder hundreds of millions of USD? I don’t think she’s at hundreds of millions yet. I think it was pointed out in a previous thread that keeping the money overseas would actually be safer than having it in the U.S. The particulars don’t seem that important to me. We’ve seen people approach the meth trade from a bunch of different angles, and I see hers as ‘legal, illegal, it’s all business.’ ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/537 "2013-09-27T20:43:33Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > That would make sense; you may be right about that. They’ve never really specified how all this stuff works, although I see Lydia’s job at Madrigal involves logistics. So yes, maybe she is still there and she plays a role in getting the meth to the Czech Republic. I seem to remember a scene from a previous episode that made it clear that the meth was getting to Europe hidden in legitimate shipments for Madrigal. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/538 "2013-09-27T21:45:21Z")
> [@well\_he\_s\_back](#): > > An article in Slate contends that everything “Breaking Bad” has done “The Shield” did first. They have some good points. But I think Walter has had more development and shading as a character than the lead character in The Shield did. > > Just throwing that out there. I saw that, it was interesting. However… (_soapbox mode_) _Breaking Bad_ is a very different beast than _The Shield_, or for that matter _The Sopranos_ or _The Wire_, although it can be argued that it owes a lot to all of them. For one thing, those are still basically shows about cops and robbers. Sure, _The Shield_ is about crooked cops, _The Sopranos_ is about sympathetic robbers, and in _The Wire_ everybody inhabits a moral grey zone, but still. _Breaking Bad_, while using some of the same elements, is really about _us_. Well, at least some of us, and maybe a lot of us. Specifically, it’s about the middle-aged, middle-class schmuck with a midlife crisis, a feeling of wasted potential, and a vaguely formulated revenge fantasy. Then it takes that fantasy and plays it out in the most brutal (and simultaneously most entertaining) way possible. That’s why it hits us on much more of a gut level than those other shows do. Don’t get me wrong, cops-and-robbers stories are great, but _Breaking Bad_ does something more: It takes our demons, our disappointments, our vaguely formulated questions and half-baked ideas about ourselves (if you will, our traumas and neuroses), and articulates them, turns them up to 11, and shows us the deep horror that can be inherent in them. It lets us experience fear and pity in a safe setting, and by doing so, it lets us purge those emotions and provides the audience with catharsis. It’s a tragedy for our time, and it’s not only great television, but also serves the same kind of psychological and social therapeutic function for its audience as the Greek tragedies did for theirs. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why we will always connect more with Walter White than with Vic Mackey. (/_soapbox mode_) (Although I will also argue that a lot of the show’s fans, specifically those who cannot relate to the existential woes of the middle aged middle class, either by a lack of imagination or by simply not being either middle aged or middle class themselves, don’t really get the show at all. That includes those who think Heisenberg is still just “awesome”, as well as the much documented “Skyler-haters”. Also, the show was never really intended to be for everyone, I think, and it’s kind of amazing how big it’s become.) ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/539 "2013-09-27T22:49:11Z")
> [@Krazy-8](#): > > Yes, it did sound like a first day of class speech but then he told them to open their books to chapter 6. It could be the start of second semester. What, you mean January? That didn’t look look cold enough for Albuquerque in January, and anyway that would mean they only did five chapters in the first half of the school year. Assuming the school year started in late August, getting up to chapter 6 by September 8 is perfectly plausible. ---
**Author:** ![Subterraneanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Subterraneanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Subterraneanus)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429/540 "2013-09-27T23:25:07Z")
> [@DonnieBarko](#): > > Walt draws a parallel from the Gray Matter interview. History is repeating itself for Walt. In his former life, as a brilliant, aspiring chemist, he established the brand, Gray Matter, with the help of a few partners. Of course, given Walt’s sense of self-importance, he convinces himself that he was the sine qua non of the operation. This may very well be true. Later, due to circumstances that he perceives to be the partners’ fault, he feels forced to remove himself from the business. When he leaves, he is left with chump change, a fraction of the true value he was entitled to. Eventually, Walt, and his contribution, is forgotten. While his name is left behind (White and Schwartz = Gray), the brand makes continues to exist even without him; and thrives. > > So. Where is Walt now? Using his brilliance in chemistry, he establishes the brand, Blue Meth by Heisenberg, with the help of a few partners. Of course, given Walt’s sense of self-importance, he convinces himself that he is the sine qua non of the operation. This may very well be true. Later, due to circumstances that he perceives to be his partners’ (Jesse’s) fault, he feels forced to remove himself from the business (by leaving ABQ). When he leaves, he is left with chump change, a fraction of the true value that he was entitled to. (Now, instead of $5,000.00, it is 11 million **(nitpick: $100,000)** that he cannot enjoy). Eventually, Walt, and his contribution, is forgotten. While his name is left behind (Blue Meth by Heisenberg), the brand continues to exist even without him; and perhaps even thrives. This is fantastic. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429.md?page=26) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-15-granite-state-9-22-13/669429.md?page=28)