# Breaking Bad 5.16 "Felina" 9/29/13 SERIES FINALE **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 24, 2013, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-16-felina-9-29-13-series-finale/669591 "2013-09-24T17:31:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 24
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-16-felina-9-29-13-series-finale/669591/461 "2013-09-30T18:46:52Z")
> [@Martian Bigfoot](#): > > The most satisfying thing for me, as others have said, was that moment of _anagnorisis_, when Walt stops lying to himself and understands why he did what he did. > > Also, the final synthesis of the Walt/Heisenberg duality into one person. That’s the single reflection of Walt’s face at the end versus the split or scattered reflections we’ve seen before. That was the main thing that needed wrapping up, and it was done beautifully. He wasn’t Walter White or Heisenberg in this episode, the two had become one, and Walt (or “Lambert”, or whatever you want to call the person he had transformed into) was at peace with himself. So he won. Is that okay? I’m genuinely asking myself that… ---
**Author:** ![Subterraneanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Subterraneanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Subterraneanus)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-16-felina-9-29-13-series-finale/669591/462 "2013-09-30T18:49:18Z")
Winning/losing is not the issue. The issue is understanding/not understanding; authenticity/inauthenticity. It’s tragedy, not a game. ---
**Author:** ![Soylent\_Juicy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/82dd89/32.png) [@Soylent\_Juicy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soylent_Juicy)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-16-felina-9-29-13-series-finale/669591/463 "2013-09-30T18:49:47Z")
I took Walt falling on Jesse to save him from the machine-gun fire as simply his father instinct kicking in. Once he saw how they had enslaved Jesse to cook for them - rather than Jesse being a willing participant - and how utterly broken Jesse was Walt felt that paternal instinct again and just did what any good father would do - save his “son”. I like to think that Jesse was smart enough to stash some money away and that he drove to get that money, then got cleaned up and kept on driving all the way to Alaska where he became a lumberjack. (\<-- heh.) Once safely in Alaska he sent an anonymous letter to Drew Sharpe’s parents with the details about how their son died, just to give them closure. And he invested some of that stashed money for Brock so Brock is taken care of for life. ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-16-felina-9-29-13-series-finale/669591/464 "2013-09-30T18:49:47Z")
> [@panaccione](#): > > So where do you suppose Walt went to after he died? Belize? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-16-felina-9-29-13-series-finale/669591/465 "2013-09-30T18:49:57Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Thanks for speaking to my question. Good response; more to think about. Well, I’m writing songs these days, so where we should deviate from standard forms is a question I think about quite a bit. In the context of writing stories, the generational blood feud doesn’t apply to the modern world very much. A person can divorce themselves from their parent’s legacy fairly well in the modern world, even if we are somewhat psychologically driven by our parents. > [@](#): > > Okay - put it another way: Did Walt win? > Can it be reduced that simply? If so, part of me thinks he kinda did - even given everything you discuss in the quoted post. I _think_. Well, as far as a terminal cancer patient could “win”, I think he came close. He comes closer to self realization than most of us do, takes care of his family in the long term, and he seems to be fulfilled in his last moments as much as anyone probably is. However, unlike the character in _El Paso_, he does have other things than his “Felina” that he cares about. Like that character, he lost everything for “her”. He also didn’t redeem himself in the eyes of anyone but Skyler. So, it depends on how you define winning. I think it’s a win, but just barely. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-16-felina-9-29-13-series-finale/669591/466 "2013-09-30T18:54:47Z")
> [@Subterraneanus](#): > > Winning/losing is not the issue. The issue is understanding/not understanding; authenticity/inauthenticity. It’s tragedy, not a game. That’s what I’m trying to pick away at. Greek tragedies feature heroes who are authentic but still at the whim of the gods - Oedipus, Antigone. They suffer far more greatly than Walt. Walt got in touch with his authentic self - integrated with Heisenberg. He died leaving his loved ones in reasonable shape, given how much worse it could’ve gone for them. Just trying to think about it… ---
**Author:** ![Latimera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/latimera/32/497_2.png) [@Latimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latimera)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-16-felina-9-29-13-series-finale/669591/467 "2013-09-30T18:56:20Z")
> [@Soylent\_Juicy](#): > > I took Walt falling on Jesse to save him from the machine-gun fire as simply his father instinct kicking in. Once he saw how they had enslaved Jesse to cook for them - rather than Jesse being a willing participant - and how utterly broken Jesse was Walt felt that paternal instinct again and just did what any good father would do - save his “son”. > > I like to think that Jesse was smart enough to stash some money away and that he drove to get that money, then got cleaned up and kept on driving all the way to Alaska where he became a lumberjack. (\<– heh.) Once safely in Alaska he sent an anonymous letter to Drew Sharpe’s parents with the details about how their son died, just to give them closure. And he invested some of that stashed money for Brock so Brock is taken care of for life. As long as he wasn’t under arrest he could always sell his house too. ---
**Author:** ![Subterraneanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Subterraneanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Subterraneanus)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-16-felina-9-29-13-series-finale/669591/468 "2013-09-30T18:57:43Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > That’s what I’m trying to pick away at. Greek tragedies feature heroes who are authentic but still at the whim of the gods - Oedipus, Antigone. They suffer far more greatly than Walt. > > Walt got in touch with his authentic self - integrated with Heisenberg. He died leaving his loved ones in reasonable shape, given how much worse it could’ve gone for them. > > Just trying to think about it… I know, just suggesting that modern, American aesthetics aren’t a lot of help, whereas a more Grecian aesthetic is, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-16-felina-9-29-13-series-finale/669591/469 "2013-09-30T18:58:26Z")
[http://www.theonion.com/video/story-of-small-businessman-struggling-under-obama,34037/](http://www.theonion.com/video/story-of-small-businessman-struggling-under-obama,34037/) ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-16-felina-9-29-13-series-finale/669591/470 "2013-09-30T18:58:31Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > I agree it was satisfying to see him finally cut the bullshit. But he doesn’t deserve to be “at peace.” That’s what bothers me. Wouldn’t you say that living well would have been the best revenge? ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-16-felina-9-29-13-series-finale/669591/471 "2013-09-30T18:59:06Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > I agree it was satisfying to see him finally cut the bullshit. But he doesn’t deserve to be “at peace.” That’s what bothers me. Well, it’s the difference between a story \*ending \*and simply _stopping_. Maybe Walt could/should have gotten out of the business earlier, or someone could/should have killed him before that, but the Walt/Heisenberg personality split is Walt’s story, and the story couldn’t have ended without that resolving. But, yeah. He could just as well have died at the end of _Granite State_ with basically the same realizations about himself (I think the merging of the two personalities is pretty much complete at the end of his stay in New Hampshire, and the \*anagnorisis \*takes place during the course of that episode, even though we only hear him spell it out to Skyler in this one). Only then, he would have died miserable, alone, with the Nazis on the loose, his family penniless and Jesse still enslaved. So, in a sense, for a much bleaker ending, it’s OK to stop watching at the end of _Granite State_, before the Gray Matter interview. Everything after that is power trip fantasy. This way, we got the “happy” ending, but with the bitter irony added that it really could or should have been the horribly unhappy ending, one that we’ve already seen played out. > [@WordMan](#): > > So he won. > > Is that okay? I’m genuinely asking myself that… That’s what I’m asking myself too. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-16-felina-9-29-13-series-finale/669591/472 "2013-09-30T18:59:43Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > So he won. > > Is that okay? I’m genuinely asking myself that… He won in the sense that he sacrificed everything he cared about to get what he wanted. In that sense they were asking if it’s worth it to gain the world if you lose your soul. Having realized he’d already given his soul away Walt seemed satisfied that he was able to tie up some loose ends - you could call this a solution in the chemistry sense and the sense of fixing a problem - and protect his reputation while trying to stop things from getting any worse. I think if you call this a clear-cut victory you’re kind of losing sight of where he came from. > [@Subterraneanus](#): > > Winning/losing is not the issue. The issue is understanding/not understanding; authenticity/inauthenticity. It’s tragedy, not a game. It’s shorthand, really. ---
**Author:** ![Subterraneanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Subterraneanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Subterraneanus)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-16-felina-9-29-13-series-finale/669591/473 "2013-09-30T19:01:42Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > He won in the sense that he sacrificed everything he cared about to get what he wanted. In that sense they were asking if it’s worth it to gain the world if you lose your soul. Having realized he’d already given his soul away Walt seemed satisfied that he was able to tie up some loose ends - you could call this a solution in the chemistry sense and the sense of fixing a problem - and protect his reputation while trying to stop things from getting any worse. I think if you call this a clear-cut victory you’re kind of losing sight of where he came from. > > It’s shorthand, really. More like translation, which is always a distortion. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-16-felina-9-29-13-series-finale/669591/474 "2013-09-30T19:07:11Z")
How about this: his victory - his ability to tie off all his loose ends, even at such cost - seems to suggest that a human can exercise free will and defy the gods. In Ancient Greek Tragedy terms, that is 😉 **Subterraneous** ; **Martian Bigfoot** - you seem to know this stuff - is that a fair way to frame BB in terms of Tragedies? I just think it is interesting - trying to figure out how much significance to assign it. It could be nothing; it could be a sell-out to appease us with a sense of heroic closure; or it could be a deep commentary on what we can and can’t control… …regardless, it sure was entertaining. ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-16-felina-9-29-13-series-finale/669591/475 "2013-09-30T19:07:55Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Why are you evaluating the show based on what the characters deserve instead of the story itself? That’s the same thing that drove David Chase crazy: viewers spend years rooting for a character to kill a bunch of people and commit lots of crimes and then they demand he get killed at the end so they can purge their guilt or get a simple ending to a complicated story or something. He’s dead. Isn’t that enough? I’m evaluating the show based on what Walt deserves because Walt’s downfall due to his arrogance and price and has been in the making since nearly the beginning. What we got was a simple ending to a complicated story. You have it backwards. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-16-felina-9-29-13-series-finale/669591/476 "2013-09-30T19:10:13Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > That’s what I’m trying to pick away at. Greek tragedies feature heroes who are authentic but still at the whim of the gods - Oedipus, Antigone. They suffer far more greatly than Walt. > > Walt got in touch with his authentic self - integrated with Heisenberg. He died leaving his loved ones in reasonable shape, given how much worse it could’ve gone for them. > > Just trying to think about it… Well, Walter White exists in a world without gods. Only chance and laws of nature apply in their world.\* Whether you suffer greatly or live in peace is largely due to chance. Walter increased his chances of suffering by deciding to engage in a part of humanity that is largely indifferent to human suffering. Some might say that world _requires_ it, but that might be generated by the same impulse that lead to the creation of gods. Rather than die at the whim of a god, Walter pushed his chances with both the underworld and cancer until one of them was certain to get him. Any victory he would have would be a Pyrrhic one. \*I can’t resist: “science, bitch!” ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-16-felina-9-29-13-series-finale/669591/477 "2013-09-30T19:12:13Z")
And Marley, he “won” because in his own words “he felt alive.” He got to live out this crime lord life, leave his family a ton of money, take out a bunch of scumbags, and not let cancer take him. He checked out on his own terms. He didn’t deserve a sliver of redemption at the end or any peace of mind. ---
**Author:** ![Subterraneanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Subterraneanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Subterraneanus)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-16-felina-9-29-13-series-finale/669591/478 "2013-09-30T19:16:06Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > How about this: his victory - his ability to tie off all his loose ends, even at such cost - seems to suggest that a human can exercise free will and defy the gods. In Ancient Greek Tragedy terms, that is 😉 > > **Subterraneous** ; **Martian Bigfoot** - you seem to know this stuff - is that a fair way to frame BB in terms of Tragedies? > > I just think it is interesting - trying to figure out how much significance to assign it. It could be nothing; it could be a sell-out to appease us with a sense of heroic closure; or it could be a deep commentary on what we can and can’t control… > > …regardless, it sure was entertaining. Free will is not a Greek notion. Accepting one’s fate is. I’m not suggesting this is purely Grecian stuff–it’s more variegated than that–but that when discussing Grecian aesthetics we need to avoid the temptation to translate them into something else. Better to speak the original “language” than to mangle it with translation, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-16-felina-9-29-13-series-finale/669591/479 "2013-09-30T19:16:15Z")
I feel Jesse will live a long and fruitful life. Sire many children. And when his time comes at a ripe old age, his children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren will be gathered around his deathbed, his final words will be: “Science, bitch!” ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-16-felina-9-29-13-series-finale/669591/480 "2013-09-30T19:16:33Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > Well, Walter White exists in a world without gods. Only chance and laws of nature apply in their world.\* Whether you suffer greatly or live in peace is largely due to chance. Walter increased his chances of suffering by deciding to engage in a part of humanity that is largely indifferent to human suffering. Some might say that world _requires_ it, but that might be generated by the same impulse that lead to the creation of gods. > > Rather than die at the whim of a god, Walter pushed his chances with both the underworld and cancer until one of them was certain to get him. Any victory he would have would be a Pyrrhic one. > > \*I can’t resist: “science, bitch!” I agree with all of that - within Walt’s world, those are his beliefs. My question is, stepping back: is there an intentional “moral arc” to the story, and if so: - What is it? - Is it in line with a Classical Greek Tragedy moral arc? If so, how? - If it is NOT in line with a CGT moral arc, then what’s different and what does that tell us about Gilligan’s intent and/or about ourselves? …bitch 😉 (sorry, just being a fanboy idiot…) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-16-felina-9-29-13-series-finale/669591.md?page=23) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/breaking-bad-5-16-felina-9-29-13-series-finale/669591.md?page=25)